(04-25-2022, 09:17 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder what his market value is atm.
None. I don't think any team wants a damaged goods primadonna who can't shoot.
When the trade was first made, I said Brooklyn raped Morey. Giving up Curry, Drummond and two 1st's for Harden and Millsap. Now I'm not so sure. Simmons has lost all credibility as far as I see it. Harden isn't "Houston Harden" and you can see he's lost some first step and explosiveness. But he still can score and assist. I still don't think he will be the difference in Philly advancing to the ECF. Embiid's fractured right thumb is.
(04-25-2022, 10:37 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]When the trade was first made, I said Brooklyn raped Morey. Giving up Curry, Drummond and two 1st's for Harden and Millsap. Now I'm not so sure. Simmons has lost all credibility as far as I see it. Harden isn't "Houston Harden" and you can see he's lost some first step and explosiveness. But he still can score and assist. I still don't think he will be the difference in Philly advancing to the ECF. Embiid's fractured right thumb is.
Harden not picking his option make it awful trade for Philly unless they make it to the Finals IMO.
They either lose or max him in summer, both are awful choices
(04-25-2022, 10:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]None. I don't think any team wants a damaged goods primadonna who can't shoot.
Which is the time to buy low, imho. Of course it doesn't work every time, but there are plenty of examples of players that turned it around.
(04-25-2022, 11:06 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Which is the time to buy low, imho. Of course it doesn't work every time, but there are plenty of examples of players that turned it around.
Right but if it doesn't work, you've essentially handicapped Luka's next contract. I don't think the Mavs are anywhere close to needing to be that desperate.
Do they need upgrades? Sure. But trading for Simmons would only make sense if this was Luka's last year of his rookie max and we haven't won anything. Then I can see the reasoning behind going all in in the hopes it works.
Now? I think the Mavs are 1 starting center and 1 reliable scorer away from being legit contenders. If we want to make a crazy trade the guy I'd prefer is Ayton, especially if PHX doesn't want to max him.
I'd do a Simmons deal if it weren't too expensive. Powell + THJ (and whatever salary filler) plus our first this year after the draft as long as our team doctors and psychologists gave it the thumbs up. I don't think the Nets would do that deal and I'm not sure I'd give up anything more than that.
(04-25-2022, 11:16 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Right but if it doesn't work, you've essentially handicapped Luka's next contract. I don't think the Mavs are anywhere close to needing to be that desperate.
Do they need upgrades? Sure. But trading for Simmons would only make sense if this was Luka's last year of his rookie max and we haven't won anything. Then I can see the reasoning behind going all in in the hopes it works.
Now? I think the Mavs are 1 starting center and 1 reliable scorer away from being legit contenders. If we want to make a crazy trade the guy I'd prefer is Ayton, especially if PHX doesn't want to max him.
I agree, but he's going to have plenty of suitors. Been hearing Detroit is going to make a run for him, since they'll be one of the teams with the most cap space.
(04-25-2022, 12:55 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, but he's going to have plenty of suitors. Been hearing Detroit is going to make a run for him, since they'll be one of the teams with the most cap space.
Oh for sure. I don't think Ayton is achievable in any realistic sense. At least not this summer. DET looks like a prime candidate especially since they have the space to make it happen.
Maybe there is a world where PHX finds Powell+THJ+Green and a pick attractive and Ayton takes the right $ amount to come here.
Just pretty much impossible realistically much to my dismay.
(04-25-2022, 01:43 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe there is a world where PHX finds Powell+THJ+Green and a pick attractive and Ayton takes the right $ amount to come here.
Just pretty much impossible realistically much to my dismay.
This would also mean Brunson is walking and still I am not sure if Mavs could stay under the apron. As we have discussed many times, SnT for free agents is very costly this season. I won't say impossible, but very costly.
(04-25-2022, 02:50 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status...12000?s=20&t=aZzod1Yc15HLWoFwh6R9NQ
Too funny. He's good though, especially for a rookie. Saw him block 3 shots on closeouts on 3 pt shooters. He even spent time harassing CP into one of his worst playoff games ever.
I don't think Ayton will be worth anywhere near the money he wants. We'd be better off looking for fallen angels in the vein JV or Brook Lopez.
(04-25-2022, 01:43 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Oh for sure. I don't think Ayton is achievable in any realistic sense. At least not this summer. DET looks like a prime candidate especially since they have the space to make it happen.
Maybe there is a world where PHX finds Powell+THJ+Green and a pick attractive and Ayton takes the right $ amount to come here.
Just pretty much impossible realistically much to my dismay.
DET feels unlikely on Ayton. He'd go from PHX to a cellar-dweller? Not likely.
Not that the Mavs are in the mix on Ayton, however. He's a FA which takes the Mavs out of the running on him in any way this summer. No money to sigh him, and not allowed to trade for him.
He's RFA, too, so PHX controls the outcome.
(04-25-2022, 09:34 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]DET feels unlikely on Ayton. He'd go from PHX to a cellar-dweller? Not likely.
Not that the Mavs are in the mix on Ayton, however. He's a FA which takes the Mavs out of the running on him in any way this summer. No money to sigh him, and not allowed to trade for him.
He's RFA, too, so PHX controls the outcome.
Detroit is rebuilding. Sure they're not good now, but that has nothing to do with whether a player won't come to a team building for the future. To add a good young big like Ayton to their nice core of Cunningham, Bey, Stewart, Grant, etc would be plus for them. I'm sure if the price is right, I dont see why he wouldn't listen. Phx had they're chance to offer him a extension and they didn't, so he still might walk. We'll see...
(04-25-2022, 09:34 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]He's RFA, too, so PHX controls the outcome.
Right we're operating under the assumption that PHX (read: Sarver) doesn't want to pay Ayton anywhere close to his max contract. DET could offer him 4/130 easily. Anything less than the max and PHX can also only offer 4 years at that number.
I think Ayton would like to go wherever will pay him the most and feature him. At worst he can always ask for a trade.
Of course, you're right the end all be all is that PHX controls the outcome, but if the rumors are true Ayton is available to be money whipped this offseason.
(04-26-2022, 12:16 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Right we're operating under the assumption that PHX (read: Sarver) doesn't want to pay Ayton anywhere close to his max contract. DET could offer him 4/130 easily. Anything less than the max and PHX can also only offer 4 years at that number.
I think Ayton would like to go wherever will pay him the most and feature him. At worst he can always ask for a trade.
Of course, you're right the end all be all is that PHX controls the outcome, but if the rumors are true Ayton is available to be money whipped this offseason.
"Anything less than the max and PHX can also only offer 4 years at that number. "
I don't know what this ^ is meant to say. PHX can offer 5 years but DET cannot.
I don't disagree that DET could offer Ayton a lot (if he's their sole priority). Spotrac puts their expected cap room at about 25M, which is a big number (though not the max). But because of the RFA factor, and the suckiness of DET, I think Ayton would be a tough get for DET -- you seem to dismiss those issues, but I think they come into play even when money is being argued about.
In any event, it's irrelevant to the Mavs. No way for the Mavs to be involved.
(04-26-2022, 01:05 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]"Anything less than the max and PHX can also only offer 4 years at that number. "
Not trying to be confusing. What I meant by that statement is if Ayton wants the full 172 mil, it has to be attached to 5 full years. All the reports we've heard about is that PHX (Sarver) is against paying Ayton the 5 year max full stop, which means we're working with at most 4 years. At 4 years, the most PHX can offer is ~134, which is a smidge more than what DET 4 year max is (I believe its 130?).
(04-26-2022, 01:05 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree that DET could offer Ayton a lot (if he's their sole priority). Spotrac puts their expected cap room at about 25M, which is a big number (though not the max). But because of the RFA factor, and the suckiness of DET, I think Ayton would be a tough get for DET -- you seem to dismiss those issues, but I think they come into play even when money is being argued about.
That Spotrac number is their bare minimum amount of cap available. DET has a derth of team options that will make it quite easy for them to reach 35 mil in cap space. Frank Jackson+ Diallo alone is 9 mil.
I'm operating under the assumption that Ayton wants to get paid first and foremost. PHX seems motivated to lowball him. Factor in Cade's emergence as a star and DET adding yet another top 4 lotto pick, it's not a stretch to see why Ayton could find them an attractive alternative.
(04-26-2022, 01:05 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]In any event, it's irrelevant to the Mavs. No way for the Mavs to be involved.
I agree here. I basically already said it's impossible for the Mavs to reroute Ayton here. This is more about PHX potentially getting dismantled this offseason. CP3 isn't getting any younger and should they lose Ayton (again, their choice, but one their owner doesn't seem averse to), that team just reverted back to what they were during the lotto years with Booker in a snap.
(04-26-2022, 12:16 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Ayton
I think a realistic scenario where Phoenix doesn't want to max him out is for them to explore a SnT for a cheaper starting center. Guys like Capella, Nurkic (and assets). I think this will be the end result.