Got a feeling the Knicks will tank the rest of the year to make the pick as good as possible for Pelicans. All they need to do is keep Thibs. Then they´ll fire him in the summer, because no way can Zion´s body survive his coaching style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rgs6CgM2jA
Morant left the game against the Wolves with a scary hip injury. He came back and played through the pain to finish the game.
As much as I would love to overtake MEM in the standings, I really don't want Morant to get hurt. He's one of the most exciting players in the league right now.
(02-25-2022, 08:37 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Sac. has a $4mm TPE from the Haliburton deal which makes the 2-for-2 deal much easier to accomplish (it is going to take a while to get the fact that we don't have a $5mm trade spread locked into my brain). Holmes/Harkless for Hardaway and any of our sub $4mm guys works using their TPE.
In terms of expanding the deal, I guess you are thinking expiring Barnes? Might they lose him for nothing in a year and something is better than nothing? He had 30 in his first game with Sabonis, but has been pretty meh since. I guess something to keep an eye on. I can actually see THJ filling a need on their roster in the Holmes deal. I have a harder time replacing Barnes with anything on our roster if I'm looking at it from their perspective.
As soon as I read Barnes in this reply I immediately went to MK. MK is still a great pairing with Sabonis as has been talked about over and over around here. Barnes to me is a better big wing to have than DFS in the same spot. In an expansion of that original deal, it would be THJ/MK for Barnes/THJ. We take on more tax paying salary, but that is alleviated if we use Burke and a second for their TPE. We then lose a spot on the roster which helps flexibility during the FA period.
Question would be, does Barnes want to resign here. I guess considering what we swapped for, it wouldn't have THAT big of an impact. We would also have half a season to figure that out and figure out a deal at the TDL.
JB/SD
Luka/Green
DFS/Bullock
Barnes/Bertans
Holmes/Powell
(02-25-2022, 12:17 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]As soon as I read Barnes in this reply I immediately went to MK. MK is still a great pairing with Sabonis as has been talked about over and over around here. Barnes to me is a better big wing to have than DFS in the same spot.
In an expansion of that original deal, it would be THJ/MK for Barnes/Holmes. We take on more tax paying salary, but that is alleviated if we use Burke and a second for their TPE. We then lose a spot on the roster which helps flexibility during the FA period.
Question would be, does Barnes want to resign here. I guess considering what we swapped for, it wouldn't have THAT big of an impact. We would also have half a season to figure that out and figure out a deal at the TDL.
JB/SD
Luka/Green
DFS/Bullock
Barnes/Bertans
Holmes/Powell
I've heard national guys talk about Barnes in terms that were similar in value to Grant. There will be people who will say "I wouldn't trade Maxi straight up for Barnes", but I imagine it will actually take Maxi's also-expiring contract plus assets to get Barnes. Maybe that is Green or our pick or both. If you add Green in a 3 for 2, Dallas saves a little LT. THJ/Maxi/Green is almost $32mm. Holmes and Barnes is $29.5mm. The outgoing for Dallas is about $1.0mm less if it is the pick instead of Green.
The Barnes part of this certainly adds some O, but at the cost of Maxi's D. The good news is we get to see all of this in a playoff series (or four) and will have a better idea what we really need. Given the guard-dominant way we play offense, is someone like Barnes actually going to get the touches needed to contribute much offense?
(02-25-2022, 12:08 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rgs6CgM2jA
Morant left the game against the Wolves with a scary hip injury. He came back and played through the pain to finish the game.
As much as I would love to overtake MEM in the standings, I really don't want Morant to get hurt. He's one of the most exciting players in the league right now.
I do worry about him long term. So athletic, so fearless and so small. That can be a dangerous combination.
(02-25-2022, 01:48 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I do worry about him long term. So athletic, so fearless and so small. That can be a dangerous combination.
I'm with you. He reminds me of DRose early in his career. The height of his jumps is eye-popping, but for every jump you have to land. Do that often enough, and in traffic, eventually something will give. For an athlete to hurt a major muscle like the hip could be serious, but I hope it doesn't keep him out long. Finishing the game has to be a good sign, but these things can be more painful the next day.
(02-25-2022, 01:28 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]The Barnes part of this certainly adds some O, but at the cost of Maxi's D. The good news is we get to see all of this in a playoff series (or four) and will have a better idea what we really need. Given the guard-dominant way we play offense, is someone like Barnes actually going to get the touches needed to contribute much offense?
I don't think of Barnes as a slouch on D, but there is a drop off (esp in rim protection) from MK to him. Wonder how well he'd play team D with Kidd's tutelage and already having familiarity with the guys.
As far as O, I think the more guys that can create offense, the better all of them stay fresh. If you look at the LaCs, they have so many creators on that team, and creation in different ways. Barnes is certainly not at the level of PG or anything, but I think he is about on par talent level of a younger Batum who we were wanting the older version last offseason.
I wouldn't have much of an issue with adding assets for Barnes (being the best player in the trade), if we knew he wanted to stay here (and he proved he was a good fit, but that is after the fact so...). If his resign status is up in the air, it's not worth the extra assets to me. A LOT of the this depends on what Sac thinks of THJ's value, for any trade to happen. I mean, we saw that Nico was shopping him and not getting anything he thought was enough value. That begs the question, does Nico value him too much, or does the rest of the league not value him enough?
(02-25-2022, 08:37 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Sac. has a $4mm TPE from the Haliburton deal which makes the 2-for-2 deal much easier to accomplish (it is going to take a while to get the fact that we don't have a $5mm trade spread locked into my brain). Holmes/Harkless for Hardaway and any of our sub $4mm guys works using their TPE.
In terms of expanding the deal, I guess you are thinking expiring Barnes? Might they lose him for nothing in a year and something is better than nothing? He had 30 in his first game with Sabonis, but has been pretty meh since. I guess something to keep an eye on. I can actually see THJ filling a need on their roster in the Holmes deal. I have a harder time replacing Barnes with anything on our roster if I'm looking at it from their perspective.
I wasn't thinking anyone in particular -- instead, just offering my general thinking.
HB incoming? Not a big upgrade imo, so of no more than moderate interest to me.
I see the conversation went on to propose some ideas with MK outgoing. I would not be interested, I think with his defense, versatility, position he adds more value than HB would as part of the rotation.
(02-25-2022, 12:17 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]As soon as I read Barnes in this reply I immediately went to MK. MK is still a great pairing with Sabonis as has been talked about over and over around here. Barnes to me is a better big wing to have than DFS in the same spot. In an expansion of that original deal, it would be THJ/MK for Barnes/THJ. We take on more tax paying salary, but that is alleviated if we use Burke and a second for their TPE. We then lose a spot on the roster which helps flexibility during the FA period.
Question would be, does Barnes want to resign here. I guess considering what we swapped for, it wouldn't have THAT big of an impact. We would also have half a season to figure that out and figure out a deal at the TDL.
JB/SD
Luka/Green
DFS/Bullock
Barnes/Bertans
Holmes/Powell
This is probably crazy, but I think I would rather have Maxi than Barnes. I like Maxi pairing with Powell in the second unit and I like DFS better than Barnes with Holmes. Don't think Barnes is in the same category defensively as either DFS or Maxi, and he will cost significantly more. Feels like we would be spending more and not really have a better team.
(02-25-2022, 04:21 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This is probably crazy, but I think I would rather have Maxi than Barnes. I like Maxi pairing with Powell in the second unit and I like DFS better than Barnes with Holmes. Don't think Barnes is in the same category defensively as either DFS or Maxi, and he will cost significantly more. Feels like we would be spending more and not really have a better team.
Having a guy at the big wing spot who can create offense for himself and others is a big plus. Barnes is also an ironman so we could move away from hoping and praying such integral pieces to the team are healthy for the playoffs.
I’m not all that married to the idea, but I think it has more merit than those against are making it out to be. Maxi is pretty dang good for us on defense, he hasn’t been too terribly much for us on O. I don’t want to do it if it tips the scales too much away from D, just think the increased offense from the trade outweighs the decrease in D.
Edit: also, I think DFS being even less needed for offense paired with Barnes puts him where he needs to be.
(02-25-2022, 04:38 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Having a guy at the big wing spot who can create offense for himself and others is a big plus. Barnes is also an ironman so we could move away from hoping and praying such integral pieces to the team are healthy for the playoffs.
I’m not all that married to the idea, but I think it has more merit than those against are making it out to be. Maxi is pretty dang good for us on defense, he hasn’t been too terribly much for us on O. I don’t want to do it if it tips the scales too much away from D, just think the increased offense from the trade outweighs the decrease in D.
Edit: also, I think DFS being even less needed for offense paired with Barnes puts him where he needs to be.
I guess it depends on whether you need the inefficient creation or not. I feel like with Luka and Brunson, we have enough creation in the starting lineup and defense is the higher priority. I don't hate the idea of Barnes, but I don't think the value add is there for the extra 12 mil. Especially for a team that is (hopefully) going to be in tax hell.
(02-25-2022, 04:21 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This is probably crazy, but I think I would rather have Maxi than Barnes. I like Maxi pairing with Powell in the second unit and I like DFS better than Barnes with Holmes. Don't think Barnes is in the same category defensively as either DFS or Maxi, and he will cost significantly more. Feels like we would be spending more and not really have a better team.
Would Barnes even want to resign here after what they put him through trading him mid game?
Barnes is NOT a top defender. He's been ranked at near the WORST defender, on every team he's played on, every season
(02-25-2022, 07:36 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Barnes is NOT a top defender. He's been ranked at near the WORST defender, on every team he's played on, every season
I find it curious that people are repeating the national consensus on Barnes as if it's an accurate depiction. We should know better than any franchise what Barnes brings after watching him lead the tank for 3 years.
Middling defense paired with solid offensive production that
has to be relegated to a 4th option or he's too inefficient for the team.
He accepted that role when he went to SAC, something we were mulling over if he'd ever do while he was here. The fact the team quickly shipped him out made me think that Barnes never really had an interest in ceding his spot on the totem pole to a then 19 year old Luka which means I don't really think he'd be too thrilled to come back anyways.
Overall I´d say Barnes is a better player than Kleber. I just don´t see how this move makes us significantly better or increases our future flexibility given the size of the contract. Plus how much is that in additional luxury tax money next season. I´d say if they trade Maxi, it will be in a package with THJ, Dinwiddie or Bertans.
Maybe something like THJ + Kleber + 2022 1st round pick for Brogdon + Bitadze
Or some S&T THJ for Rubio, if that´s technically legal. And some Kleber for Bitadze sidedish, but in that case we keep our 1st round pick.
I think the general transaction plan should be: keep the current level on the court, while improving the cap situation.
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