(05-06-2022, 01:54 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is just a mental limitation.
No, it is reality. Removing protections will cost you something. Another team's FRP will cost you something. Beyond all that, there has to be someone that is available and the MBT desire.
Clippers have made some smart moves....unfortunately they may be snake bit.
Does this mean that Batum is probably gone from the Clippers? Does he have anything left? Lets say we could make a trade for Myles Turner and then find a way to pick up Batum while keeping the rest of our core minus draft pick and Maxi or something similar. Does that put us a little closer to contender? We would still have flexibility for a future move as well.
(05-06-2022, 06:40 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Clippers have made some smart moves....unfortunately they may be snake bit.
Does this mean that Batum is probably gone from the Clippers? Does he have anything left? Lets say we could make a trade for Myles Turner and then find a way to pick up Batum while keeping the rest of our core minus draft pick and Maxi or something similar. Does that put us a little closer to contender? We would still have flexibility for a future move as well.
I think if Turner is past his foot issues and Both of them gell well with the team as is anticipated, that would be a team that has title aspirations. Question is what of the existing roster does it take to get those guys also? If it’s some of the guys we are talking about as unneeded, sure. If rotation pieces are needed, we might have a hole to fill still for at least depth (not insurmountable).
Also, the RoCo extension maybe is an indication that Batum has said he wants out? If that’s the case, what would he want that LAC aren’t giving him and we could provide?
(05-06-2022, 01:59 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]No, it is reality. Removing protections will cost you something. Another team's FRP will cost you something. Beyond all that, there has to be someone that is available and the MBT desire.
Of course. But it doesn't mean it is not possible, that is the whole point. You are speaking about limitations before you even see what is on the table.
(05-06-2022, 07:20 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Also, the RoCo extension maybe is an indication that Batum has said he wants out?
There was also talk they are looking to upgrade Morris. So perhaps Morris contract is used for a PG. Than they need both Batum and RoCo.
(05-06-2022, 01:59 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]No, it is reality. Removing protections will cost you something. Another team's FRP will cost you something. Beyond all that, there has to be someone that is available and the MBT desire.
I mean, if they tear it down like you said you wanted it’s not reality, right?
(05-06-2022, 08:01 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, if they tear it down like you said you wanted it’s not reality, right?
Removing protections from a pick will cost something is the reality. It doesn't matter what direction you go in or stand pat.
Further, we aren't one all-in move from being a championship team. That's why the trade for KP was foolish. It was a cherry-on-top move for a sundae that the Mavs hadn't added ice cream too. Doing that again would be equally as foolish as the roster isn't all that much different and if you trade is a bust, you've handcuffed yourself again. Like Branduil said, we'll be in a better place after next season. That's not to say we shouldn't improve, but we should all get used to the idea that this is our time for the time being, assuming we can retain JB.
(05-06-2022, 10:56 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Removing protections from a pick will cost something is the reality. It doesn't matter what direction you go in or stand pat.
Can you help me understand something as maybe I am missing something? The Knicks hold our pick next year unless it is in the top 10, then it goes to '24 which is top ten protected. Wouldn't the Knicks jump at the opportunity if we waived that protection? We shouldn't need to add anything right? Now maybe we don't want to waive that protection in case next year is a year from hell. But why would we need to pay to remove protections?
(05-06-2022, 11:04 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Can you help me understand something as maybe I am missing something? The Knicks hold our pick next year unless it is in the top 10, then it goes to '24 which is top ten protected. Wouldn't the Knicks jump at the opportunity if we waived that protection? We shouldn't need to add anything right? Now maybe we don't want to waive that protection in case next year is a year from hell. But why would we need to pay to remove protections?
The Knicks own the pick and the associated protections. Mavs would be asking for their help by removing the protections. They have all the leverage in that negotiation as they'd know that Mavs need the protections removed in order to include future picks in another deal. Squeezing more value out of the deal is smart business, even if it's a SRP.
(05-06-2022, 11:04 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ] We shouldn't need to add anything right? Now maybe we don't want to waive that protection in case next year is a year from hell. But why would we need to pay to remove protections?
Because protection is removed when you need the pick. The team knows that and receives compensation for their troubles. Examples from past show that the price for that is a SRP. SRP is nothing if something huge that would require the 2025 pick is on the line. That is why I think mentioning these pick protection is a big exaggeration.
(05-06-2022, 10:56 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Further, we aren't one all-in move from being a championship team.
These kind of statements are irrelevant in a discussion about what assets Mavs have. This is a discussion about what deal is worth spending your assets on. You are not using your assets for something that doesn't make you a contender, that is clear. The way you are proposing, Mavs will still be more than one move away next season if they stand pat this season and it still won't make sense to spend our assets.
(05-06-2022, 11:23 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]These kind of statements are irrelevant in a discussion about what assets Mavs have.
No it isn't. You brought up the Jrue example. Jrue was the final piece of the puzzle and why the Bucks went all in.
(05-06-2022, 01:27 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think you missed my point. I wasn't trying to imply we should go after George type. But Luka and KP combined cost us far less than what Clippers paid for George alone. Yet Clippers still traded for 4 rotation players in next 2 years and signed one by FA. Mavs have more or less same team with Bullock and Dinwiddie the only changes in the regular rotation. Mavs have plenty of assets.
Clippers only paid 3 pucks of their own not 5.
Why? Because they have build assets of draft picks before going all-in.
AFAIK we never received a future first since Cuban took over, maybe I am wrong but I am sure that it didn't happen since I followed this team in 2008.
So, that was already an advantage for Clippers assets.
Then, Clippers got Kawhi for nothing and PG was his Robben, so their time was "now" since then and till Kawhi legs are officially done in the NBA.
Trading 1st is normal in that.
The Mavs misses their Roben, and trading a 1st kills our trading assets in case a Roben became available.
Going for a Covington and not waiting for a Lilard is a mistake.
(05-07-2022, 11:36 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Hey there, John Collins. How you doin'?
Hawks are in win now mode. They are looking to upgrade the team and I think Mavs have nothing to offer they would see as an upgrade of Collins. The question is, if they could get in as a third team. But Collins is young enough that a rebuilding team could see as a building block for the future.
(05-07-2022, 12:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'd much rather pay 1-2 firsts for John Collins than Jerami Grant.
I really like Collins and he would be great next to Luka. However, the key is to enter another starter that plays with him as he is too small for a full time center, imho. A shooting big is what we should be looking for next to him. Not many players that fit the description. Maxi is a poor man version. Someone like Turner perhaps.
I think in general an ambitious move for Mavs would be to get two players. Convince two guys to come together and then execute the deal. For example - if expiring Turner says he will not sign an extension, Indy has little option but to trade him. Same goes for a guy like Wood, Grant and others. Convince two guys like that Mavs is where they want to be.
The question is what the Hawks owner is willing to spend? THJ + Kleber for Gallinari + #16 is a huge upgrade, but it´s also adds $6M p.a. in long-term money with the Hunter extension looming next summer.
I don´t see how extending Collins could be considered a mistake. They were a young team ahead of schedule reaching the East finals, losing to the eventual champions and had no capspace afaik.
You may think whatever you want about the Hawks forum, but I think the below is a very reasonable overview of their roster and of their offseason goals. What they will able to do is another question, though.
The trade deadline – ownership and other stakeholders were very unhappy about the dealing around the trade deadline. They wanted consolidation trades and couldn’t swing anything. There was a feeling around the league the Hawks were dangerous and no one wanted to help. But, there was also a feeling that everything the Hawks wanted to do was a swindle. Our players were valued greater as a whole than as individuals. Ownership is eager to shake things up. Specifically, to get bigger around Trae.
Clint – Management likes Clint but they do not see him as defensively dominant enough to put around Trae. They see him as good and serviceable but a better fit on a team bigger at the 2/3/4. They feel he is not getting the help he needs. We either move Clint for a dominant center or will upgrade all 3 positions between him and Trae for size.
Collins – Management loves John the person. Management also thinks John is a better fit next to a dominant center or elsewhere. John is not strong enough, big enough and is hurt too much to put next to Trae and Clint. They know his athleticism will fade.
Bogi – Management is very frustrated with his injury situation. Mad at their medical staff for clearing him. Bogi’s knee issues are suspected to be degenerative and will need to be managed. Bogi’s defense is opportunistic but a net negative in its own right. He is a terrible fit next to Trae. Huerter is not the long term answer and will eventually be on the bench but his defensive fit next to Trae was a necessity. If Bogi plays hard defense 1 night, his knee makes him useless the next….This is why Huerter is starting and why Bogi is the number 1 person on the trading block.
Gallo – The team loves everything Gallo brings. They do not love it $21 million worth. Gallo is a financial decision they tried to make at the trade deadline and got mediocre interest at best. A decision was made to waive or trade him in the coming offseason and the team isn’t happy about it. They love him but he just isn’t worth $20 million + a year at this stage of his career.
Cooper – Cooper openly complained about his role and opportunities. He may not be back and could be packaged.
Wright – The Hawks love everything about him. For a player the team thought they made a mistake on 10 games in, he is now solidly a Hawk. They can’t overpay him and he may take the money elsewhere (he’s played himself onto a number of rosters now), but the Hawks want to bring him back.
TLC – If the price is right.
Hunter – Hunter complained openly about touches and the end of the season was all about him proving he could hold on to the ball and be effective. The jury is out. He improved but is not efficient. The offseason will be big for Hunter and he could be included in a trade deal to get a true star 2 to put next to Trae.
The team wants 3 things in the offseason. 1) To get bigger, more physical. This starts at both Center and PF. The Hawks will be shopping. 2) The team wants a solid #2 scorer/ball handler. 3) To utilize their draft capital and multiple assets to consolidate bringing in 2 stars. Either 2 elite bigs or 1 elite big and 1 elite 2.
The team is very interested in trading out of this year’s draft and using their pick to upgrade. This entire offseason is about getting players who will help them punish teams that double/trap Trae.
Nate isn’t going anywhere this season. He doesn’t like his team’s personal identity and has worked with management to address it this offseason. Expect moves. Everyone is on board.
If you see the Hawks make a move for either Ayton, Gobert (or even A.Davis), then that is just the first domino to fall. Clint, John, Dre, Bogi, Gallo, Cooper could all have a new address next season and we could easily not have a draft pick. 5 out, 3 in is very likely.
The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread. - Homecourt - Hawksquawk.net
(Just cleaned it up to make it readable-SH)
(05-07-2022, 12:12 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I really like Collins and he would be great next to Luka. However, the key is to enter another starter that plays with him as he is too small for a full time center, imho. A shooting big is what we should be looking for next to him. Not many players that fit the description. Maxi is a poor man version. Someone like Turner perhaps.
I think in general an ambitious move for Mavs would be to get two players. Convince two guys to come together and then execute the deal. For example - if expiring Turner says he will not sign an extension, Indy has little option but to trade him. Same goes for a guy like Wood, Grant and others. Convince two guys like that Mavs is where they want to be.
Maybe it changes in a couple years but at the moment it's best to have one true big surrounded by perimeter guys
If Collins can't be a solo big man then we have to pass. Honestly I haven't watched him enough to know one way or another
Dubs schooling the young Grizzlies except for Ja. As small as he is, he can dominate a game. Jordan Poole is really good. He gives GS another scorer you have to game plan for.
Welp. Just happened to tune in and could not tell what happened to Ja.