(08-09-2021, 02:22 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]I don't as currently constructed. They aren't better than Utah, Phoenix, Lakers if healthy, Denver or the Clippers if Kawhi was healthy. Then you have GS who'll get Klay back and they added players, Memphis is on the comeup. They only get to being a top 4 seed if KP has a career year. Luka still has to do too much, and the bench has to be consistent.
I agree that KP has to play well. I don't know that it would take a career year for the Mavs to be top 4, but yeah, a repeat of last year would be rough.
I'm not convinced that the Lakers can stay healthy or shoot the basketall, that the Clippers (without KL) will be top 4, that Klay back immeidately makes GS top 4, or that Phoenix can do it again. There are question marks for all of those teams just like their are for the Mavs.
Having said that, I admitted that I'm one of few posters here that think the Mavs will be good. Anyway, my comment was a response to the great @"mavsluvr" saying that "lots" of us were being seduced into thinking the Mavs were close to contenders. So thanks for supporting my response! :-D
A lot of people bag on that KP/THJ trade, but that's stupid. I don't care how it's turned out so far, there is no way under God's green Earth where we are better off right now with DSJ, VAJ, Tank Commander, whatever spares NY gets in the draft.
Easy.
(08-09-2021, 01:39 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]The seducing is by the negative nancies IMO. Things were UGLY last season and yet the Mavs got the fifth seed and played full strength LAC better than anyone. The Mavs addressed two of the three biggest issues already. KP is still a huge question mark, but there is more reason for general optimism than thinking the Mavs are in some horrible position and situation.
I think this is the kind of thing that innocently might make us feel just a little bit better than an objective observer might. The Mavs were actually tied for the 5-6-7 seed, and landed in fifth thanks to an obscure rule involving division winners breaking three-way ties. They could just as well be regarded as a seventh seed, so. . . .
But they did give the Clips a run for their money. Of that we can be proud.
In terms of getting the team in shape to actually be a contender, it seems to me that they are still figuring out who they are/should be, largely due to the uncertainties around KP. If he had done what they wanted, we would probably be on track, or even a little ahead of the game at this point.
(08-09-2021, 02:27 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Wow! Hope you're right!
Who are the other three teams in the top 4, fif?
Seems wide open to me since beyond Denver and Utah you have a mix of young (can you do it again?), old (can you stay healthy), and oddly constructed (will this really work?). So pick one of the young, old and oddly constructed and add them to Denver and Utah.
(08-09-2021, 02:37 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of getting the team in shape to actually be a contender, it seems to me that they are still figuring out who they are/should be, largely due to the uncertainties around KP. If he had done what they wanted, we would probably be on track, or even a little ahead of the game at this point.
This is easy to agree with...
maybe even astute!
(08-09-2021, 02:34 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people bag on that KP/THJ trade, but that's stupid. I don't care how it's turned out so far, there is no way under God's green Earth where we are better off right now with DSJ, VAJ, Tank Commander, whatever spare NY gets in the draft.
Easy.
Hindsight is easy and all but I think a smarter front office would have passed on the KP trade. The problems:
-You didn't have a lot to show from the abysmal seasons leading up drafting Luka/Brunson with the exception of DSJ and a couple of quality undrafted free agents in DFS and Maxi.
-To get Luka, you had to give up an additional first. This was the right call but also contributed to being asset poor.
-KP was hurt and cost you a fortune (DSJ, 2x FRPs and eating the bad contracts of Lee/THJ). This all but emptied your cupboard of assets.
-To make that kind of trade, you need to be damned sure or as close as humanly possible that the pairing would work which is hard as you really didn't even know what you had in Luka at the time. You also shouldn't gamble on someone with those types of injury concerns, especially when they are that tall.
The injury concerns have come to fruition and the fit is worse than any of us could have imagined. The approach should have been more patient and organic. The issue there is that you would have had to rely on the MBT drafting and that is anything but a sure thing but that shouldn't excuse the impatience.
We are just stuck now needing KP to be good because we have no other way of making the team better because we are so asset poor.
Just a friendly debate. I'm not a Mavs basher. They have a good team. I just think they fall in the middle. All the points being brought up are fair in regards to some teams being able to repeat last year's successes, and injuries will play a big role for all teams. But I just think that the Mavs have improved around the fringes but won't be quite enough to get them to the top of the West. Also the ace in the hole when playing the East, is disappearing. The East will be much better than in the past.
(08-09-2021, 02:34 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people bag on that KP/THJ trade, but that's stupid. I don't care how it's turned out so far, there is no way under God's green Earth where we are better off right now with DSJ, VAJ, Tank Commander, whatever spares NY gets in the draft.
Easy.
hahah. Hard to argue with that.
(08-09-2021, 02:29 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This was our last chance to get that #2/3 player until we get access to a bunch of our firsts.
There are two possibilities other than waiting for access to a bunch of firsts
1. KP plays great, becoming that #2, or providing a trade chip that might yield a #2.
2. A star player decides that he wants to come to the Mavs.
I know it's possible that neither of those things happen. But might was well add them to the "wait for firsts" list.
(08-09-2021, 02:43 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Hindsight is easy and all but I think a smarter front office would have passed on the KP trade. The problems:
-You didn't have a lot to show from the abysmal seasons leading up drafting Luka/Brunson with the exception of DSJ and a couple of quality undrafted free agents in DFS and Maxi.
-To get Luka, you had to give up an additional first. This was the right call but also contributed to being asset poor.
-KP was hurt and cost you a fortune (DSJ, 2x FRPs and eating the bad contracts of Lee/THJ). This all but emptied your cupboard of assets.
-To make that kind of trade, you need to be damned sure or as close as humanly possible that the pairing would work which is hard as you really didn't even know what you had in Luka at the time. You also shouldn't gamble on someone with those types of injury concerns, especially when they are that tall.
The injury concerns have come to fruition and the fit is worse than any of us could have imagined. The approach should have been more patient and organic. The issue there is that you would have had to rely on the MBT drafting and that is anything but a sure thing but that shouldn't excuse the impatience.
We are just stuck now needing KP to be good because we have no other way of making the team better because we are so asset poor.
Those are all good observations in hindsight. But I don't know, I think most teams would have done that trade in the circumstances.
As I understand it, the guy the Mavs were originally interested in was THJ, and the Knicks surprised them by also offering KP, who was an All-Star player. Finally! A chance to reel in a big fish! DSJ wasn't really working out here anyway, Courtney Lee was a good player who didn't end up being exchanged for something useful but could have been, and THJ ended up fulfilling (exceeding?) their expectations. I can't hold that decision against them. They were aware of the injury concerns, as you mention, but evidently the medical team signed off.
Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out nearly as well as they hoped, but it looks like they're going to give it another shot. I think I get why they're doing it, but I hope it doesn't end in their just delaying a major overhaul another season. That might well involve taking a step back in order to reset.
(08-09-2021, 02:42 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]This is easy to agree with...
maybe even astute!
haha. Man, the board is really raising their banter game today!
(08-09-2021, 02:38 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Seems wide open to me since beyond Denver and Utah you have a mix of young (can you do it again?), old (can you stay healthy), and oddly constructed (will this really work?). So pick one of the young, old and oddly constructed and add them to Denver and Utah.
Hahahahaha, I feel very secure in that home court expectation after that, lol.
(08-09-2021, 02:59 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]... and THJ ended up fulfilling (exceeding?) their expectations. I can't hold that decision against them. They were aware of the injury concerns, as you mention, but evidently the medical team signed off.
Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out nearly as well as they hoped, but it looks like they're going to give it another shot. I think I get why they're doing it, but I hope it doesn't end in their just delaying a major overhaul another season. That might well involve taking a step back in order to reset.
I still question their evaluation of THJ. Other teams offered him the same or more money so maybe I'm the crazy one. Though it isn't like NBA teams give out terrible contracts all the time. I really hate talking junk about THJ because I love the person, how hard he works, and unlike so many others, he wants to be here.
I don't think the MBT has any other choice but to try and make KP work out. You could probably trade him pretty easily, but you aren't going to return value at this point.
I think the new MBT did okay this offseason. The real test for me is how they draft next year.
Edit: I also think we view DSJ through the lens of what he's become and his last few moments in Dallas. He still had a good rookie campaign under his belt and potential at the time we traded him. And lord knows Carlisle and point guards. There were probably other opportunities to return value for him if they deemed he needed to be traded. And if the Mavs intention was THJ, I really hope the principles on that deal weren't centered around DSJ but rather expiring contracts for what was at the time, one of the leagues worst contracts in THJ.
(08-09-2021, 03:04 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Hahahahaha, I feel very secure in that home court expectation after that, lol.
Should we forward my astute assessement to Vegas in case they need help with their handicapping?
(08-09-2021, 02:34 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Having said that, I admitted that I'm one of few posters here that think the Mavs will be good. Anyway, my comment was a response to the great @mavsluvr saying that "lots" of us were being seduced into thinking the Mavs were close to contenders. So thanks for supporting my response!
oh please, lol
"Us" referred to Mavs fans as a whole, not just this erudite board. Cuban and his PR machine are the seducers, not anyone here, haha.
I think the Mavs will be good, I just don't think they're much of a lock this season to contend (WCF). Or, tbh, even to almost contend (good showing in the second round). I think a reasonable goal at this point is for them to get out of the first round. That seems realistically achievable with a bit of luck. (Of course, I would be thrilled to see them exceed those expectations, but don't want to set them up to disappoint.)
I totally hope your assessment is accurate!!
(08-09-2021, 03:32 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]pssst
don't take my confidence too seriously
Haha, you should do a regular standup routine for us, fif. I know I'm in stitches, lol.
Another way to look at Mavs position in the West is to just separate the 50 win teams from everyone else.
Here’s who I predict/think can win 50;
Lakers
Clippers
Denver
Utah
Phoenix
Dallas
Golden State
Portland
Memphis
Woah; that’s 9 teams.
Which teams do I think Mavs will finish ahead of?
Memphis
Portland
Clippers(Kawhi out)
Which teams could Mavs potentially finish ahead of?
Lakers(old team/remember 2004-05?)
Golden State(Lots of ??????)
Denver(they good, but not much better than us)
Phoenix(Can they do it again?)
Jazz(Hey I said ‘potentially’)
Who does that leave?
Just Mavs. A team building on 2 years of growth. With arguably the best player.
![[Image: source.gif]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7btT1T9qpQZWhNlK/source.gif)