(07-23-2021, 01:59 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely wouldn't. The logic behind it doesn't make sense to me. Warriors are a western conference rival that are trying to get back to where they were in the playoffs.
If they targeted KP for that package then that means
1) they don't think there is anyone at 7 & 14 that can help them next year.
2) they don't think they can be competitive with Wiggins.
3) they DO think that KP is good enough to make them contenders again with their core thus vaulting them from 8th to out of the play-in.
Which means the Mavs (who were BETTER than the warriors this year), has a player that is GOOD for winning basketball games. It makes ZERO sense to take a step back and trade KP for a rebuilding package.
Isn't every team (unless rebuilding) think they are getting the better players in every trade?
No one is trading for KP unless they think they are getting the better player, so why would we care really?
(07-23-2021, 06:06 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas isn't LA, but if Lowry and Derozan really want to play together, Dallas needs to be in that conversation. For years, I viewed Carlisle as a positive because he is an excellent coach, but it is becoming more and more apparent he wasn't viewed that way with todays players. I had no confidence in Donnie being able to sell his vision and close. Maybe the new guys are better at this....they better be.
It would be an uphill battle and Dallas would need to clear at least 10 million and Richardson would need to opt out. Lets say we would need to move Maxi for air (I don't see how we would move Dwight). Our front court would be painfully thin with a healthy KP and downright embarrassing without a healthy KP.
But could a starting lineup of Luka, Lowry, Derozan, DFS and KP compete against the best teams? Brunson, Green and Dwight would be your first off the bench. Maybe Nate HInton could win some minutes or Tyler Bey in the front court. Dallas would need to find away to uncover 20 minutes a night at PF somehow. That could be a minimum guy, late round draft pick or internal development. They would need to find a way to upgrade this spot within the next two years. Other teams have found solid pieces in the bargain bin.
A starting lineup above though is a good place to be with scoring, toughness, and veteran players. Three point shooting would not be great and defense might not be great. Teams would try to bully us with KP and DFS starting in the front court, but I would take my chances that I could find depth in the front court with smart decisions and the continued development of our youngsters.
I may be in the minority... But I have no interesting in signing both guys.
They couldn't get it done together in their primes with a good team around them. They are both on the decline now.
You best be winning the title right now, next year... Because there is nothing but downside over the next few years if you sign them. In short, they don't remotely fit the timeline. And that's if they even would work here. I'm not convinced we'd really be all that much better. Never going to happen tho anyways.
I would rather sign younger guys with upside and untapped potentials than signing older players.
Siakam and Kawhi offseason!
#makeitsonico
(07-24-2021, 03:24 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]To join Nico?
Given how colossally awesome the Suns' GMing has been over the past 5-7 years, that would be fantastic.
(07-24-2021, 03:38 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Given how colossally awesome the Suns' GMing has been over the past 5-7 years, that would be fantastic.
Phoenix sure built a nice team and had a great season, but calling there GMing colossally awesome over last 5 years? Just look at draft. Since drafting Booker Phoenix drafted:
2016 with #4 Bender and with #8 Chriss (none in the league!), #34 Ulis (not in the league)
2017 with $4 Jackson (almost out of league), #32 Reed and #54 Peters (both out of league)
2018 with #1 Ayton (good player but one could argue they missed on Luka), absolutely nailed Smith for Bridges trade, #59 King (who is King?)
2019 with #11 Cam Johnson (solid rotation player), #24 Ty Jerome (miss)
2020 with #10 Smith (looks like big miss so far)
So 3 huge misses, 2 solid picks (Ayton, Johnson) and 1 great (Bridges). Rest were bascially all misses, with Smith pending
(07-24-2021, 04:03 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Phoenix sure built a nice team and had a great season, but calling there GMing colossally awesome over last 5 years? Just look at draft. Since drafting Booker Phoenix drafted:
2016 with #4 Bender and with #8 Chriss (none in the league!), #34 Ulis (not in the league)
2017 with $4 Jackson (almost out of league), #32 Reed and #54 Peters (both out of league)
2018 with #1 Ayton (good player but one could argue they missed on Luka), absolutely nailed Smith for Bridges trade, #59 King (who is King?)
2019 with #11 Cam Johnson (solid rotation player), #24 Ty Jerome (miss)
2020 with #10 Smith (looks like big miss so far)
So 3 huge misses, 2 solid picks (Ayton, Johnson) and 1 great (Bridges). Rest were bascially all misses, with Smith pending
Who has a better supporting cast, Booker or Luka?
I'll hang up and listen.
(07-24-2021, 04:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Who has a better supporting cast, Booker or Luka?
I'll hang up and listen.
I claimed it is not collossaly awesome, I didn't say they were all time bad. They made many mistakes in last 5 years and they built a team around Booker in 5 years. So to compare to Dallas, we should perhaps wait 2 more years to see what they will manage to surround Luka with.
And just out of curiosity, would you prefer Mavs tanked hard for 4 years with Luka before building a team around him? Because this is what Phoenix did with Booker.
(07-24-2021, 04:24 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I claimed it is not collossaly awesome, I didn't say they were all time bad. They made many mistakes in last 5 years and they built a team around Booker in 5 years. So to compare to Dallas, we should perhaps wait 2 more years to see what they will manage to surround Luka with.
And just out of curiosity, would you prefer Mavs tanked hard for 4 years with Luka before building a team around him? Because this is what Phoenix did with Booker.
No. Luka is impossible to tank with. Rather, I wish the Mavs hadn't been atrociously incompetent with every move since the KP trade (which was the right move but sadly didn't pan out), including flushing two crucial offseasons down the toilet in ways that would have been very difficult for any single one of the other 29 front offices in the league to top if they were in a similar situation. They had one single good move (signing Seth) and then quixotically undid it.
(07-24-2021, 04:34 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]No. Luka is impossible to tank with. Rather, I wish the Mavs hadn't been atrociously incompetent with every move since the KP trade (which was the right move but sadly didn't pan out), including flushing two crucial offseasons down the toilet in ways that would have been very difficult for any single one of the other 29 front offices in the league to top if they were in a similar situation.
I don't really understand why you keep bringing Mavs FO to our conversation. I claimed Phoenix one was not collossaly awesome as you claimed, that was it.
(07-24-2021, 04:37 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I don't really understand why you keep bringing Mavs FO to our conversation. I claimed Phoenix one was not collossaly awesome as you claimed, that was it.
Good grief, man. They built a team that made the Finals and is the favorite to do so from the West next year as well if they retain CP3. No, they didn't hit on all of their draft picks. They're also handcuffed by a ruthlessly skinflint owner who makes GMing particularly challenging. I may have overspoken, but not by much. And I don't think there's much of an argument that the Mavs have done better. Ayton is a notch worse than Luka, but Luka is a generational player. It's like drafting Olajuwon over Jordan. Unless Ayton dynamically disappoints in his further development, he's going to be the best big in the league about two seasons from now.
(07-24-2021, 04:48 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] Good grief, man. They built a team that made the Finals and is the favorite to do so from the West next year as well if they retain CP3. No, they didn't hit on all of their draft picks. They're also handcuffed by a ruthlessly skinflint owner who makes GMing particularly challenging. I may have overspoken, but not by much. And I don't think there's much of an argument that the Mavs have done better. Ayton is a notch worse than Luka, but Luka is a generational player. It's like drafting Olajuwon over Jordan. Unless Ayton dynamically disappoints in his further development, he's going to be the best big in the league about two seasons from now.
I would argue that the Suns were a mediocre to bad front office that happened to have a few good players over years of being terrible. They managed to stumble into one star in 10 years.
And then they made one fantastic move in trading for CP3.
Was the Mavs front office a great front office because they made one trade to get one of the best players in the league?
A broken clock is right twice a day is all I can say ha.
It's a new front office for the Suns anyways with James Jones. We'll see how good they are now. They've been on the cusp. Now they have to find ways to improve and get over the hump.
I definitely wouldn't say they are the favorite to make the finals out of the West. Lakers didn't have health on their side, and they'll have ways to improve. I'll be very surprised to see them not be the favorites. I would think there's a pretty good chance they are the favorites to win the title overall next year. Nets may be higher.
(07-24-2021, 05:07 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I definitely wouldn't say they are the favorite to make the finals out of the West. Lakers didn't have health on their side, and they'll have ways to improve. I'll be very surprised to see them not be the favorites. I would think there's a pretty good chance they are the favorites to win the title overall next year. Nets may be higher.
Depends a lot on what the Lakers do this offseason. They have caproom, IIRC. Do the ring-chasers join up with Lebron and AD after what happened last year? I know, *everyone* was injured in the pandemic-shortened season, but Lebron is getting awfully old, and AD is always debilitated. Or close to it. Who's to say both those guys are healthy next year? Who are their running mates? I would still have the Suns penciled in unless they lose CP3, in which case they likely fall in the 5th or 6th in the West tier next year. And if the Mavs don't make some significant overhauls this offseason, I'd be very pleasantly surprised if even a CP3-less Suns team doesn't sweep the season series this year.
(07-24-2021, 05:58 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Depends a lot on what the Lakers do this offseason. They have caproom, IIRC. Do the ring-chasers join up with Lebron and AD after what happened last year? I know, *everyone* was injured in the pandemic-shortened season, but Lebron is getting awfully old, and AD is always debilitated. Or close to it. Who's to say both those guys are healthy next year? Who are their running mates? I would still have the Suns penciled in unless they lose CP3, in which case they likely fall in the 5th or 6th in the West tier next year. And if the Mavs don't make some significant overhauls this offseason, I'd be very pleasantly surprised if even a CP3-less Suns team doesn't sweep the season series this year.
The same Suns who without CP3 couldn't even get to 500 last year?
CP3 leaving would knock them out of the playoffs unless they get a legit PG another way.
Suns had everything in the West go their way other than Paul's covid test.
I think you are drastically overrating how good they are.
There is nothing more pathetic than fans of a team that had as much success as the Orlando Magic, Detroit Pistons, Charlotte Hornets and Sacramento Kings over the last decade talking shit about the methods of a team that just made the NBA finals.
(07-24-2021, 06:52 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]There is nothing more pathetic than fans of a team that had as much success as the Orlando Magic, Detroit Pistons, Charlotte Hornets and Sacramento Kings over the last decade talking shit about the methods of a team that just made the NBA finals.
Before this season, Suns belong to the same group.
Actually, worse than many of them. At least in past half decade.
1 great season doesn't change all the mistakes done before. Especially when they hadn't beat a healthy team in their entire run