(12-11-2022, 06:07 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Siakam is very good, but I don't think he is the alpha who can take you all the way. And as you said, Toronto has logjam at PF. Toronto wants a center and it was rumored they have interest in Poeltl. So how about Bertans, McGee and two picks to SA, Bullock, Poeltl and one pick to Toronto? Toronto still keeps all the ammo (and adds some) for a star trade while keeping the excelent core. I don't think Siakam is interesting for SA (or any other rebuilding team), too old for their rebuild. Sure Toronto could use Trent in the deal for Poeltl, but it would require at least one FRP to get him.
Let's work on this some. I like what I think you are trying to do here, but it doesn't quite jive with my view of fair value for the other teams (bearing in mind we are just two guys talking here and we can't presume either of us truly knows where value should be set for these guys).
FWIW, I think SA gets a single first for Poeltl (I know the reporting says they'd like to get two). They can get more for taking on salary...the going rate is about $20mm for a first, but that is single year money, not multi-year money. I think you've attempted to compensate them a pick for Poeltl and a pick for taking Bertans and McGee. I think they are underpaid for eating that much salary based on deals we've seen in the past. I could see them getting a second pick for taking on some expiring money, but we are talking about people like Powell, Reggie and Wood, not McGee and Bertans.
FWIW, I think Siakam draws at least 3 first rounders. It may or may not require some youth as well. They are getting Poeltl (worth a first) and one of our firsts inyour deal. Reggie in your scenario is neutral value at best. So, I think Toronto is underpaid also. It isn't their problem that we need to pay SA to take out our trash. At minimum they need to end up with two picks and Poeltl.
Let's keep the main thing the main thing here...getting Siakam. If we can dump a bad salary, that is secondary to having a 9-man that is worth giving up the picks we gave up. So, Toronto gets two of our picks and Poeltl (so a total of 3) and we give a single pick to San Antonio that would have gone to Toronto so that they are paid for Poeltl. Now we have to fill in players. If we are limited to dealing with players with small amounts of guaranteed money left (Wood, Powell and Reggie), it takes three of them to match dollars with Siakam (not trade match...dollar match so that we aren't paying extra tax in this process). That is a want-to and not a have-to (like your desire to dump McGee and Bertans in this same deal).
When I start to divvy up Powell, Reggie and Wood as the outgoing and bring back some minimum wage bodies to keep rosters balanced, I start to get a headache. Would either team value a Wood rental/tryout? If so, would they value it enough to take McGee. That's the smallest remaining dollars as I don't see anyone with larger dollars having positive value other than Dinwiddie. I ended up sending Wood and McGee to SA with a single pick, Powell and Reggie to Toronto with two picks and taking back Sikam, Dieng and Bo Cruz, but I don't really like it that much. The starting lineup is dramatically improved and the bench is weakened (but not devastatingly so). I'm not sure SA would value Wood that much, but they do need to put buts in seats and if offense is all you care about, he could do that. I think Poeltl, Reggie, two unprotected firsts and a Powell homecoming is decent for Toronto, or would have been before Gobert...now I'm not so sure.
Siakam Maxi Dieng
DFS Hernangomez Bertans
THJ Frank Pinson
Green Hardy
Luka Dinwiddie Walker
(12-12-2022, 08:40 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]the going rate is about $20mm for a first
One important thing here - we are speaking about unprotected firsts. I am not sure anyone gave up an unprotected pick to dump salary. So in this light, I think the compensation for SA is more than fair - I agree two firsts are probably too strong offer. At best they can be looking at two protected picks for Poeltl on the market, perhaps even less. On the other hand, one unprotected is probably light. So perhaps the teams could meet in the middle. Perhaps Toronto sends something protected to SA and Dallas sends one pick, while Toronto receives two unprotected picks. Or instead Dallas sends 1 pick and 2 SRP to SA with 2 unprotected picks to Toronto. The key man here is Siakam. If he doesn't want to stay in Toronto or resign with a long term rebuilding team like SA, than Dallas has a chance.
One more thing - SA used to like Bertans. Would they see a possibility to rebuild his value and cash in on him at least a bit later, once he is expiring? I am really not sure if Wood is a guy Pop would want.
The big question the Mavs need to answer right now is Wood. This is where communication with the front office will come in. Do they see Wood as a long term or at least a multiple year fit. If the answer is yes, do they see him as a starter or a bench piece. If they view him as a scorer off the bench, is he receptive of that long term. If the answer is no, then Mavs better get moving.
Second, my wish list (as others) is a bigger wing who can create and defend. Those are tough to find. But if that is my #1 need than one of the following needs to be moved Bullock, DFS, Maxi, or Green. Green would be the one I would least want to give up. Does this team think forward and move Bullock when he starts playing better? Or do they hold him think they can re-capture the run last year? Hardaway should also be moved because I don't want him blocking Hardy next year. I also wouldn't be super disappointed if Dinwiddie was moved, but I don't see that happening.
Moving to next year, I think it is imperative this team looks in the cracks and finds a Hardy/Green level prospect that is a 4/5 type. This will most likely require a bought pick, but this team needs a developmental piece in the front court.
Shams on the Athletic today. Lakers have been exploring Bogdanovich from Detriot trades with a protected first. Also looked at Cam Reddish and Fournier. (comment--Appears all talk as Detroit is hesitant to move Bogdanovich)
Three team trade discussed with Milwaukee getting Crowder, Houston getting Milwaukee four second round picks and players and Phoenix getting Eric Gordon and/or Kenyon Martin Jr. Hold up is Houston was holding out for a first for Gordon and a very good first for Martin. (comment..well that feels like a pretty big holdup)
Hawks and Heat are also interested in Crowder.
Hawks have had several teams in Collins market with Utah, Washington, Brooklyn and Dallas mentioned. Atlanta has not shown interest in a package that would contain Joe Harris. PHX has a desire for Collins but does not seem included to take on his big contract. Kuzma would be appealing to ATL.
I think Utah may be able to build the best package. The question is do they really want to?
Kuzma may be a more attractive offer than us, but does Washington want to have three big contracts? We could probably beat the Nets offer but they may be willing to throw a first round pick in.
In all honesty, A Wood and Bullock package is pretty solid offer, but I am not sure what ATL wants. I would only do this deal if I had decided Wood is not a long term fit here.
Wood and Bullock for Collins makes some sense for both teams.
(12-12-2022, 12:18 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Wood and Bullock for Collins makes some sense for both teams.
Yeah, I think it is fair. It would be a sign of Dallas thinking a few moves out by moving Wood for Collins.
I think Wood and Collins are similar talents. Collins is probably more reliable. He has a bad contract though. I would only do this move if you have decided Wood is not a piece here. It would then leave Dallas with their assets for a wing and then look for value for a 15 minute young big prospect.
(12-12-2022, 12:57 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I think it is fair. It would be a sign of Dallas thinking a few moves out by moving Wood for Collins.
I think Wood and Collins are similar talents. Collins is probably more reliable. He has a bad contract though. I would only do this move if you have decided Wood is not a piece here. It would then leave Dallas with their assets for a wing and then look for value for a 15 minute young big prospect.
I like it for Dallas long term mainly because I do think Collins is overall better and you don't let Wood walk out the door for nothing.
Id be curious what the board thinks of Capela or Bogdanovic if an ATL trade was expanded. Haven't watched much ATL the last couple years but in theory I could see both being desirable pieces for us.
I wonder if Utah would re-do the Gobert trade if it was just Kessler, Vanderbilt, Beasley & Talen Horton Tucker (traded with Beverly)? That is a solid haul even without all the draft capital. There was a lot of talk about Kessler pre draft but he looks like he may be a real nice player. Maybe Myles Turner-ish minus the outside shot....although maybe that develops.
I am a two weeks behind on Podcasts but I was listening to the Bill Simmons podcast. Can you imagine if the Wolves won the lottery this year and the Jazz get their pick? He thought this would be the strangest story of all time.
Suns have lost 5 straight (first of those was the loss to Dallas). Before this they were in first place, no they are in 4th and a game and a half out of 9th. Injuries are going to be huge this year. Missing a player for 3 weeks can be the difference from missing the playoffs entirely and maybe getting homecourt.
The Suns in their losses have given up 130, 125, 128, 129 and 111. Ouch.
I expect a Crowder trade happens soon. They were probably waiting until the 15th anyway but thought they could take their time because they were playing so well. They need someone else.
2 million this year. Non guaranteed 2 million next year. Not a bad contract for the Magic.
I remember when the mavs didn’t draft him a few years ago. I was so mad. He didn’t do much besides a few glimpses and looking back at least the mavs picked someone who has stayed in the nba (although not with the mavs).
https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1603...79938?s=46&t=FsYPA9RSbagHrAnEDm9dnw
(12-14-2022, 08:34 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]2 million this year. Non guaranteed 2 million next year. Not a bad contract for the Magic.
I remember when the mavs didn’t draft him a few years ago. I was so mad. He didn’t do much besides a few glimpses and looking back at least the mavs picked someone who has stayed in the nba (although not with the mavs).
https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1603...79938?s=46&t=FsYPA9RSbagHrAnEDm9dnw
BolBol, Mo Wagner and Mo Bamba. That awkward moment you realize the Magic signed three better centers than McGee for $14M this summer.
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