(05-22-2023, 11:03 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]There's a big piece of info missing in that recap.
Butler did not force his way to MIA. PHI had decided they did NOT want Butler (they didn't want any part of the max $33M salary he was going to command from someone), so he was going to walk anyway. PHI's stance was "We will cooperate if we only have to take a player(s) we can use and like." They decided they liked JRich who looked like he was turning into a good 2-way combo guard or small wing (and whose existing $10M salary looked like it might be a bargain).
In contrast, the Mavs want to keep Kyrie. And it's questionable whether there's anyone LA could send that the Mavs would really want (we can't lose sight of the fact that players like Russell, Bamba and Hachimura aren't under contract and might be looking for far more than they would be worth to the Mavs).
Didn't see this post. But its on point!
Butler forced his way to Miami. It’s his own self-serving revisionism that has people thinking otherwise.
(05-22-2023, 06:32 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: [ -> ]Butler forced his way to Miami. It’s his own self-serving revisionism that has people thinking otherwise.
Well...however he got there, forced or not it worked. He's the man in Miami. That would not have been the case in Philly as he would have had to share the stage with Embiid. I wonder what PJ Tucker and Jae Crowder are thinking now? Both left on their own accord.
(05-22-2023, 05:07 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: [ -> ]Sure looks like the water is flowing downhill to a Kyrie re-sign.
And then he shows up at another Laker game.
There aren’t too many story lines more interesting than this one, so I doubt it completely dies until something gets signed. Like I said, Lowe and Marks spent 10 minutes on this today a day after the Pincus story.
(05-22-2023, 05:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, @Dan, if my question offended you.
You didn’t. I know intent and tone are tough to gauge in texts and posts. Sorry if what I wrote communicated offense. Glad to have you hanging around again.
Best LBJ game in a while but not enough to beat the Nuggets. Feels like even in an "average" game Jokic is so much better than any other player on the floor that the outcome is never in doubt.
Gobert failed. Ayton failed. AD failed. Baring a miracle the next matchup is going to be Adebayo but I wonder if Spoelstra can come up with something new that actually provides a challenge for Jokic.
The Joker is the best player in the game at the moment. He does it all. But Miami will have a few wrinkles for him and they play more zone than any team in the league. Should be a great series.
Jokic is incredible.
He went from 2 points, a couple of rebounds, and maybe an assist after the 1st quarter to 20/13/10 by the end of the 3rd. Dude is a machine.
(05-22-2023, 11:33 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Jokic is incredible.
He went from 2 points, a couple of rebounds, and maybe an assist after the 1st quarter to 20/13/10 by the end of the 3rd. Dude is a machine.
Jokic is a great player no doubt. But, that Nuggets team is loaded. Aaron Gordon was a star with the Magic, Porter Jr can shoot the lights out of that thing, KCP is a great role player that was a lottery pick, and that doesn't even mention 27 who is making his own star. Jokic is the engine but that team is stacked like crazy.
If only the Mavs could build a team around Luka.
(05-23-2023, 01:43 AM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]Jokic is a great player no doubt. But, that Nuggets team is loaded. Aaron Gordon was a star with the Magic, Porter Jr can shoot the lights out of that thing, KCP is a great role player that was a lottery pick, and that doesn't even mention 27 who is making his own star. Jokic is the engine but that team is stacked like crazy.
If only the Mavs could build a team around Luka.
Really great points and reminder. Lots of talent there, and talent that fits well.
(05-22-2023, 01:37 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I think there are probably multiple ways to work out something where Kyrie ends up in LA without having to depend on any of the S&T guys coming here from LA. Beasley and Bamba and Vandy and 17 (once signed) can get Irving to $38.6mm using the 110% rule. LA would have between $43mm and $53mm to keep Rui and Reaves and sign minimums to finish out the roster.
Dallas can pick and choose what to take from all of that and send what they don't want to a cap room team.
Does Dallas want only Vandy and cap room with Bamba and Beasley going elsewhere? What will Poeltl get this summer?
How about Vandy, Bamba and the pick stays in Dallas and we send Beasley away and take back a $16.5mm TPE (plus the MLE).
I was working hard to maximize money for Kyrie using the 110% rule and missed the most simple version of all of this (which is where Zach Lowe went in his podcast). The simplest version of this is LA letting its NG contracts go (Beasley and Bamba) and trading Vanderbilt, #17 and 2029 for Kyrie at about $34mm. That gets Dallas the largest possible TPE a replenishment of its 2029 pick and a DFS replacement. We aren't getting a Dinwiddie replacement in this, but the TPE (or the $20mm in cap room we'd have) and #17 allows you to pursue what you want.
LA would operate as a room team, could keep the $2mm cap hold on Reaves and would have the Room MLE. Retaining Rui isn't possible in this scenario. So, their team would be Davis, LeBron, R-MLE, Reaves and Irving and everyone else would be minimums. Doesn't seem smart to me, but Le-GM hasn't always made the smartest long term decisions.
Assume all the required disclosures again. Correct, this doesn't make us better. Yeah, the report said we already have a deal. Yeah, Kyrie isn't taking $34mm. The question, if he really wants to leave, is whether Dallas would want the stripped down version of this or some of LA's stuff. For instance, Rui could S&T into this eating up some of the TPE. Would you split $30mm between Rui and someone else or just keep the $30mm TPE and go shopping? The deal can't be done until July, and picks would already be made. So Dallas (or a third team) would need to like the pick made at 17 (or the pick Dallas made at 10). The TPE would allow you to bring back someone without forcing matching salaries on the other team...Collins, Herro, maybe Draymond. With 10/17/2027 and 2029 (LA), you are also back in the game for OG or any of the big name guys out there.
(05-23-2023, 07:25 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I was working hard to maximize money for Kyrie using the 110% rule and missed the most simple version of all of this (which is where Zach Lowe went in his podcast). The simplest version of this is LA letting its NG contracts go (Beasley and Bamba) and trading Vanderbilt, #17 and 2029 for Kyrie at about $34mm. That gets Dallas the largest possible TPE a replenishment of its 2029 pick and a DFS replacement. We aren't getting a Dinwiddie replacement in this, but the TPE (or the $20mm in cap room we'd have) and #17 allows you to pursue what you want.
LA would operate as a room team, could keep the $2mm cap hold on Reaves and would have the Room MLE. Retaining Rui isn't possible in this scenario. So, their team would be Davis, LeBron, R-MLE, Reaves and Irving and everyone else would be minimums. Doesn't seem smart to me, but Le-GM hasn't always made the smartest long term decisions.
Assume all the required disclosures again. Correct, this doesn't make us better. Yeah, the report said we already have a deal. Yeah, Kyrie isn't taking $34mm. The question, if he really wants to leave, is whether Dallas would want the stripped down version of this or some of LA's stuff. For instance, Rui could S&T into this eating up some of the TPE. Would you split $30mm between Rui and someone else or just keep the $30mm TPE and go shopping? The deal can't be done until July, and picks would already be made. So Dallas (or a third team) would need to like the pick made at 17 (or the pick Dallas made at 10). The TPE would allow you to bring back someone without forcing matching salaries on the other team...Collins, Herro, maybe Draymond. With 10/17/2027 and 2029 (LA), you are also back in the game for OG or any of the big name guys out there.
I am very sceptical LA would consider moving all of that plus both picks for Kyrie. Including 2023 pick also brings huge complications and possibilities of tampering allegations. From Dallas perspective, I don't think you could hope for a better outcome in case Kyrie would want to leave.
Stein has this on Lakers:
Harrison Faigen on Twitter: ""League sources continue to say that L.A. is determined to retain Austin Reaves and Rui Hachimura in free agency. There is frankly no scenario, based on what I know, that Reaves won't be a Laker next season." - @TheSteinLine in his latest Substack column. https://t.co/RTpi0yXKuL" / Twitter
Edit: although, couldn't Lakers basically just clear cap space and sign Kyrie to basically same deal? Keeping Vandy and both picks. In both cases they lose Bamba, Beasley and Russel, while keeping Reaves caphold. In the SnT case they also lose Vandy and both picks. Seems like a very high compensation for a couple of million higher salary Irving receives. If he agrees to the deal, Lakers could still try to negotiate SnT for a very small compensation (Mavs get TPE and Lakers get to use MLE).
The moves from the Lakers made at the deadline definitely helped propel them to the playoffs. They had random guys step up along the way. Although, it is worth noting in the do or die game last night Russel got 15 minutes and Beasely and Vanderbilt were DNP. I think all are replaceable. Vanderbilt seems to lose favor after a while. Good player, but it seems he starts out as a guy teams think is a core rotation piece and then sort of loses favor. Maybe that is wrong.
One of my asks for the Mavs this offseason is to find a Schroeder or DSJ....just a bigger player. Find a guy looking for a job who at least for a year can be a solid gap filler. There are guys out there every year who wind up taking near minimum deals. With everything else they need to do this offseason, I want them to find someone to at least help out next year.
(05-23-2023, 01:43 AM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]Jokic is a great player no doubt. But, that Nuggets team is loaded. Aaron Gordon was a star with the Magic, Porter Jr can shoot the lights out of that thing, KCP is a great role player that was a lottery pick, and that doesn't even mention 27 who is making his own star. Jokic is the engine but that team is stacked like crazy.
If only the Mavs could build a team around Luka.
Wonder if they blow it up after winning their first championship ever?
(05-23-2023, 01:43 AM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]Jokic is a great player no doubt. But, that Nuggets team is loaded. Aaron Gordon was a star with the Magic, Porter Jr can shoot the lights out of that thing, KCP is a great role player that was a lottery pick, and that doesn't even mention 27 who is making his own star. Jokic is the engine but that team is stacked like crazy.
If only the Mavs could build a team around Luka.
They are a deep team and have done a great job building around Jokic. They might have been primed for a finals run prior if Murray did not get injured.
I wouldn't call Gordon a star though in Orlando. Solid player. Just in the wrong role if he is one of your best players. Orlando fans were not sad to see him leave. Probably best in an overqualified role player. But, this is the type of caliber of player Mavs need to be in the look out for with their 27th first round pick. Porter is the ultimate wild card....he has all star ability but can be up and down. But if he can stay healthy he is progressing nicely.
As you mention about building the team around Luka, while the Mavs were scrambling with the Jalen loss and promising Javale a starting role, the Nuggets signed Bruce Brown for 6 million, made a smart trade for KCP to provide shooting and drafted Braun. That is my definition of working around the edges to improve the team. Sure it is hard, but it is definitely possible and the Mavs have stunk at this for a while.
Assuming Kyrie is prepared to take a discount to sign with Lakers. If they renounce all cap holds but Reaves, trade #17 for future assets (which they can still trade later in the season) and decline their team options (Bamba, Beasley, Harrison), they can offer 30 mil to Kyrie. Would he really draw a hard line at 34 he could get in the SnT scenario you proposed? Because if he takes "just" 30, Lakers keep the draft capital enabling them to further improve the team. However, Lakers would be very limited without negotiating a SnT with Dallas to be able to operate over the cap and access the full MLE and BAE.
Still, I find it hard to believe that 4 mil difference in Kyrie salary would be worth both picks and Vandy for Lakers (in addition to Russell, Hachimura, Beasley and Bamba they lose in both cases). I think Kyrie to Lakers makes sense only, if they can construct a SnT around Russell, either to Dallas or third team. Otherwise, they just lose too much. But I agree, if LeBron would really want it to happen,
(05-23-2023, 08:04 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming Kyrie is prepared to take a discount to sign with Lakers. If they renounce all cap holds but Reaves, trade #17 for future assets (which they can still trade later in the season) and decline their team options (Bamba, Beasley, Harrison), they can offer 30 mil to Kyrie. Would he really draw a hard line at 34 he could get in the SnT scenario you proposed? Because if he takes "just" 30, Lakers keep the draft capital enabling them to further improve the team. However, Lakers would be very limited without negotiating a SnT with Dallas to be able to operate over the cap and access the full MLE and BAE.
Still, I find it hard to believe that 4 mil difference in Kyrie salary would be worth both picks and Vandy for Lakers (in addition to Russell, Hachimura, Beasley and Bamba they lose in both cases). I think Kyrie to Lakers makes sense only, if they can construct a SnT around Russell, either to Dallas or third team. Otherwise, they just lose too much. But I agree, if LeBron would really want it to happen,
Ok, the only angle that hasn’t been thrown out there is Lebron restructuring his contract. If Lebron takes the paycut to get Kyrie, all bets are off. That also falls under what I was talking about with a team being able to sign him with space. At least I believe that is an angle, if not, I have a hard time believing Kyrie would take that much of a paycut to play another non-championship season with Lebron, who BTW leaves to his son’s drafted team the season after.
I think this Lebron retirement talk is silly. Similar to after an NFL player plays his last game of a season. Lebron just got done with a draining season. Looked where they started and where they ended. He got injured along the way and I am sure this made things more difficult. He also had games where he played the full game in tough playoff games. Only to see it all end in a sweep. I am sure he is mentally and physically exhausted. After this tough end, I am sure the last thing he wants to think about is playing more basketball. After a month or two of taking a break, I am sure he will be ready to go next year.
It is tricky for the Lakers though. Lebron continues to defy time. But at some point, it will come. He is still able to think through a game better than anyone, but it definitely complicates things looking 2-3 years out.
(05-23-2023, 08:18 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, the only angle that hasn’t been thrown out there is Lebron restructuring his contract. If Lebron takes the paycut to get Kyrie, all bets are off. That also falls under what I was talking about with a team being able to sign him with space. At least I believe that is an angle, if not, I have a hard time believing Kyrie would take that much of a paycut to play another non-championship season with Lebron, who BTW leaves to his son’s drafted team the season after.
Didn't Lebron sign and extension that puts it through the upcoming year?
Bronny is going to be interesting. He supposedly has gotten better, but I don't know if he is going to be a one and done. Probably shouldn't be. Plus, I believe he is 6'2. There are not many of those guys around unless you are an elite point guard. I don't believe he is a true point guard either.
(05-23-2023, 08:18 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, the only angle that hasn’t been thrown out there is Lebron restructuring his contract. If Lebron takes the paycut to get Kyrie, all bets are off. That also falls under what I was talking about with a team being able to sign him with space. At least I believe that is an angle, if not, I have a hard time believing Kyrie would take that much of a paycut to play another non-championship season with Lebron, who BTW leaves to his son’s drafted team the season after.
Interesting angle. However assuming, LeBron doesn't take the paycut, Kyrie to Lakers doesn't make much sense for them, all things considered. The cost would be just too high. Their strength right now is in huge flexibility they have with their contracts (Beasley, Bamba). Assuming Reaves gets 20 mil and the "hard cap" is at 180 mil, Lakers would look:
LeBron - 53
AD - 40.6
Reaves - 20
Vandy - 4.7
Christie - 1.7
This is roughly 120 mil, leaving them 60 mil to play with. They can keep Beasley and Bamba or trade them for similar salary with their assets. Both are overpaid so negotiating a new deal with one or both, letting one or both go are all also all options. Russell had a really bad season so no idea what his market is. Lets say 15 mil for old time sakes. So the three mentioned combined are around 40 mil, leaving 20 mil for remaining minimum 6 players. Dump a bit of salary from Bamba/Beasley options and they can easily resign Hachimura and sign full MLE.
If they go for Kyrie at his max salary and resign Reaves at mentioned 20 mil, they would be basically limited to some 15 mil of budget for remaining 8 players, no matter how they execute the Irving SnT. I find it hard to believe they are better this way.
Another interesting angle would be to play with AD. He would still bring good players and assets. Lets say a team like Atlanta would likely be interested to give up players like Collins and Hunter (plus some of the guys on rookie contracts) for him. Just a quick example, there are probably more interesting teams looking to consolidate several lesser talents for AD.
(05-23-2023, 07:25 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I was working hard to maximize money for Kyrie using the 110% rule and missed the most simple version of all of this (which is where Zach Lowe went in his podcast). The simplest version of this is LA letting its NG contracts go (Beasley and Bamba) and trading Vanderbilt, #17 and 2029 for Kyrie at about $34mm. That gets Dallas the largest possible TPE a replenishment of its 2029 pick and a DFS replacement. We aren't getting a Dinwiddie replacement in this, but the TPE (or the $20mm in cap room we'd have) and #17 allows you to pursue what you want.
LA would operate as a room team, could keep the $2mm cap hold on Reaves and would have the Room MLE. Retaining Rui isn't possible in this scenario. So, their team would be Davis, LeBron, R-MLE, Reaves and Irving and everyone else would be minimums. Doesn't seem smart to me, but Le-GM hasn't always made the smartest long term decisions.
Assume all the required disclosures again. Correct, this doesn't make us better. Yeah, the report said we already have a deal. Yeah, Kyrie isn't taking $34mm. The question, if he really wants to leave, is whether Dallas would want the stripped down version of this or some of LA's stuff. For instance, Rui could S&T into this eating up some of the TPE. Would you split $30mm between Rui and someone else or just keep the $30mm TPE and go shopping? The deal can't be done until July, and picks would already be made. So Dallas (or a third team) would need to like the pick made at 17 (or the pick Dallas made at 10). The TPE would allow you to bring back someone without forcing matching salaries on the other team...Collins, Herro, maybe Draymond. With 10/17/2027 and 2029 (LA), you are also back in the game for OG or any of the big name guys out there.
Teams (and most of us) tend to knee-jerk away from actions that recently hurt us.
That's why I think the Lakers will spend whatever it takes to retain Reaves. The pain of the Caruso decision is still high.
A year ago, they also went all-in on the three-star approach to roster building. They traded for Westbrook and gutted their roster of mid-level, complementary pieces. It was a disaster.
Fortunately for them, they were able to reverse course and trade Westbrook for some mid-level pieces. Of course, they also had to empty their draft cupboard and much future flexibility. But the approach worked, at least more than the three-star formula had.
It's hard for me to imagine them going back to the three-star pathway. Recency bias.
Now, trading away AD for another, more reliable star? Maybe. He's a little like KP. A star-level performer when healthy, but you just never know when he'll be hurt for a couple of months.
To make a quick Jokic-Doncic comparisation. If Luka doesn´t come to the conclusion that it`s up to him to improve his endurance I don´t want to hear another word about his competitive nature.
Might be the most underrated aspect of Jokic´s game. He can run the floor for 40+ minutes without slowing down. Never stops moving. Only player with more miles per game in the CF was his teammate Jamal Murray. A 6´11/290 big was outrunning the entire Lakers team.