The Lakers house may be built on quicksand due to Lebron's age, but man is it impressive how they re-made that team. Even to have the chance of creating salary cap room with two max guys and some interesting young players is quite amazing. they also kept their pick which is close to the Mavs, and the Lakers have done a great job with non lottery picks for a while. Compare that to the Mavs who seem to have a packed parking lot of bloated long term salaries.
(05-23-2023, 07:52 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder if they blow it up after winning their first championship ever?
Letting Chandler walk that first time was so overwhelming stupid I don't know how I managed to stick around
(05-23-2023, 04:27 PM)Jym Wrote: [ -> ]Letting Chandler walk that first time was so overwhelming stupid I don't know how I managed to stick around
Chandler Parsons?
Actually dodged a bullet by not signing him.
Props to the front office.
(05-23-2023, 02:53 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: [ -> ]Why would you assume Mark Cuban is going to give Kyrie 4 years, $209 million?
He already said with the new CBA, "there is probably a number we have to walk away." We have no idea what that number is.
I will make a friendly bet with you we dont offer Kyrie the full $209 million. I'm not super confident but I find it unlikely.
I am optimistically thinking Kyrie might agree to a contract identical to Luka over the next 4 years. The pitch would be (1) Luka's the #1 here, and we don't pay someone else more than that, (2) we need to have a full team and payroll is capped under the new CBA.
Maybe that would work? I would certainly have that discussion with him and his agent. Let him be a part of building something in Dallas. Enjoy the advantages of a state with no state income tax and where there's no forced vax nonsense. His approach to life is really more like TX than NY or CA.
1st year 40,064,220, 3 years plus PO (3+1), total over 4 years is $178,063,200.
Haven't seen much play here about Cowherd talking up AD to Dallas (presumably for Kyrie). $40mm next season and a $43mm deal with ETO next season. UFA after that. No idea if Cowherd thinks this is straight up or if one side or the other has to add something.
Cowherd has been playing up some break in relationship between AD and Lebron. He says Dallas inquired about AD at the TDL. Maybe this was a two step process from the go since the Brooklyn owner didn't want to send Kyrie to LA.
https://twitter.com/TheVolumeSports/stat...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecoldwire.com%2Fcolin-cowherd-names-1-team-that-should-pursue-anthony-davis%2F
(05-23-2023, 05:20 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I am optimistically thinking Kyrie might agree to a contract identical to Luka over the next 4 years. The pitch would be (1) Luka's the #1 here, and we don't pay someone else more than that, (2) we need to have a full team and payroll is capped under the new CBA.
Maybe that would work? I would certainly have that discussion with him and his agent. Let him be a part of building something in Dallas. Enjoy the advantages of a state with no state income tax and where there's no forced vax nonsense. His approach to life is really more like TX than NY or CA.
1st year 40,064,220, 3 years plus PO (3+1), total over 4 years is $178,063,200.
That seems closer to what I was thinking Cuban will offer him. Was thinking 4/160 off the top of my head but 40 in the first year with raises might be an even better guess.
(05-23-2023, 02:53 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: [ -> ]Why would you assume Mark Cuban is going to give Kyrie 4 years, $209 million?
He already said with the new CBA, "there is probably a number we have to walk away." We have no idea what that number is.
I will make a friendly bet with you we dont offer Kyrie the full $209 million. I'm not super confident but I find it unlikely.
Bet taken
I assume Cubes would do that because it's exactly that type of thinking that lost the Mavs Brunson. And don't get me wrong, I was a proponent of the Mavs cheaping out on JB because I truly didn't think he'd become an all-star level player.
At some point you have to pay to retain talent. At this stage in my opinion, the Mavs HAVE to get good players. It is way easier to fill the team out around good players that are the pillars of the roster vs. a bunch of guys who are basically pieces used to get those good players (and are probably overpaid because you were desperate to get said pieces after all the good players left your team). It's also easier to attract those ring chasing vet min guys when you have a good roster. Kyrie on a 209 million deal vs. 174 million deal is a difference of 10-12 a year. Are we sure we want to risk his ire over that? Are the Mavs even in a position to play hard ball like that?
Kyrie at 50 mil isn't a bad deal considering the Mavs should open up 30+ mil of dead weight turning Bertans+McGee+Powell (33 mil right there). THJ+Bullock is another 27 mil of mediocre to ok salary that can- in a perfect world- be upgraded into 1 good starter and 1 bench player salary wise.
Cuban trying to skimp out (and conversely pushing Kyrie to the Lakers) would be right on brand because he's an absolute fucking numskull that I can't stand to look at.
Trust me, I am not a fan of Kyrie Irving. I hated the trade. I'd be way more inclined for any other superstar than him because I know he's going to find some PR nightmare that will cause a huge distraction sooner than later. But there isn't one available. The Mavs chose this path when they made the trade. They have to follow through now or basically accept blowing up the team.
I'm just hoping it's indeed a 4 year max and not a full blown 5 year, $273 million deal
(05-23-2023, 10:09 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Killer if you're seeing this I wonder how you're feeling about D'Lo these days.
Think he’s great, and that the deal the lakers got was the better option than the Kyrie path. Russell is an upgrade to Dinwiddie, Vanderbilt is a different but overlapping type of player to DFS, much younger, and about to break out. And, they wouldn’t have had to give up an UNPROTECTED (!!) ‘29 first for the privilege of overpaying either immediately on their next deals.
The Lakers front office, one of the worst in sports during recent years, is superior to the Mavs’.
(05-23-2023, 07:00 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Haven't seen much play here about Cowherd talking up AD to Dallas (presumably for Kyrie). $40mm next season and a $43mm deal with ETO next season. UFA after that. No idea if Cowherd thinks this is straight up or if one side or the other has to add something.
Cowherd has been playing up some break in relationship between AD and Lebron. He says Dallas inquired about AD at the TDL. Maybe this was a two step process from the go since the Brooklyn owner didn't want to send Kyrie to LA.
https://twitter.com/TheVolumeSports/stat...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecoldwire.com%2Fcolin-cowherd-names-1-team-that-should-pursue-anthony-davis%2F
I gotta say…wouldn’t hate it.
The injuries scare me, but when he’s right, AD is one of maybe 5 centers who change the game on both ends. And, if we think the Mavs are signing up for a smooth, 65+ games played per season over the next 4 years with whatever this next Kyrie deal is, we’re in for some tough times.
It could be much worse than an AD trade, imo.
(05-23-2023, 11:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]1 I assume Cubes would do that because it's exactly that type of thinking that lost the Mavs Brunson.
2 At some point you have to pay to retain talent. At this stage in my opinion, the Mavs HAVE to get good players. It is way easier to fill the team out around good players that are the pillars of the roster vs. a bunch of guys who are basically pieces used to get those good players (and are probably overpaid because you were desperate to get said pieces after all the good players left your team).
3 Kyrie on a 209 million deal vs. 174 million deal is a difference of 10-12 a year.
4 Are we sure we want to risk his ire over that? Are the Mavs even in a position to play hard ball like that?
5 Kyrie at 50 mil isn't a bad deal ...
6 ...considering the Mavs should open up 30+ mil of dead weight turning Bertans+McGee+Powell (33 mil right there). THJ+Bullock is another 27 mil of mediocre to ok salary that can- in a perfect world- be upgraded into 1 good starter and 1 bench player salary wise.
7 Cuban trying to skimp out (and conversely pushing Kyrie to the Lakers) would be right on brand because he's an absolute fucking numskull that I can't stand to look at.
1 I certainly agree with you that Cuban is likely to mess this up, no matter how he approaches it. He lacks finesse and hasn't opted to hire someone who can navigate these negotiation waters with skill.
2 I agree that you pay to keep Kyrie. But I would think there should be more possibilities other than "max" and "walk."
3-7 I agree Cuban might play the excuse game of a cheapskate (since he has many times before) but offering Kyrie to get paid like Luka doesn't feel like that sort of move -- assuming Cuban also does spend the full MLE, and does a SW on Bertans, and is aggressive in scouting and getting good players to develop, and eventually lands just below the 170M hard cap.
But since you mention it, and as I ponder, I think if I was Kyrie and Cuban wanted me to sign for Luka money, I'd want to see the rest of the roster moves and make sure the roster-building is a smart and aggressive route to the future and that the money he's saving on me is spent elsewhere in a way that matters.
ONE IMPORTANT POINT - Under the new CBA, Cuban and Kyrie/his agent can start talking new deal numbers and parameters in June, just as soon as NBA Finals end. That should help a lot imo.
(05-23-2023, 07:00 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Haven't seen much play here about Cowherd talking up AD to Dallas (presumably for Kyrie). $40mm next season and a $43mm deal with ETO next season. UFA after that. No idea if Cowherd thinks this is straight up or if one side or the other has to add something.
Cowherd has been playing up some break in relationship between AD and Lebron. He says Dallas inquired about AD at the TDL. Maybe this was a two step process from the go since the Brooklyn owner didn't want to send Kyrie to LA.
https://twitter.com/TheVolumeSports/stat...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecoldwire.com%2Fcolin-cowherd-names-1-team-that-should-pursue-anthony-davis%2F
My guess would be, that AD has higher value than Kyrie, so Mavs would need to add. However, bringing AD instead of Kyrie changes Mavs needs a lot. The other players they have would fit much better than they do with Kyrie. Main focus would not need to be defense first players anymore. While THJ doesn't really fit next to Luka and Kyrie, he would be a much better fit with Luka and AD. Maxi would be a great fit next to AD. There would be more room for Green and Hardy to create than with Irving. AD fills so many needs Mavs have, I could see them more or less keeping their core and only need to add a bit to be in a much better position compared to where they are with Irving. This means, I could see Mavs becoming a contender even if they give up draft capital to get it done. I think Mavs would only need to add one more solid big wing and a back-up point guard. Something MLE and minor trade could accomplish.
(05-24-2023, 01:43 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]1 I certainly agree with you that Cuban is likely to mess this up, no matter how he approaches it. He lacks finesse and hasn't opted to hire someone who can navigate these negotiation waters with skill.
2 I agree that you pay to keep Kyrie. But I would think there should be more possibilities other than "max" and "walk."
3-7 I agree Cuban might play the excuse game of a cheapskate (since he has many times before) but offering Kyrie to get paid like Luka doesn't feel like that sort of move -- assuming Cuban also does spend the full MLE, and does a SW on Bertans, and is aggressive in scouting and getting good players to develop, and eventually lands just below the 170M hard cap.
But since you mention it, and as I ponder, I think if I was Kyrie and Cuban wanted me to sign for Luka money, I'd want to see the rest of the roster moves and make sure the roster-building is a smart and aggressive route to the future and that the money he's saving on me is spent elsewhere in a way that matters.
ONE IMPORTANT POINT - Under the new CBA, Cuban and Kyrie/his agent can start talking new deal numbers and parameters in June, just as soon as NBA Finals end. That should help a lot imo.
I'm glad we're largely in agreement regarding Cuban. However, I do think you're overlooking one important X-factor and that is Kyrie's sense of feeling respected. This is the same dude who asked for a trade immediately after winning the finals because he felt like he was number 2. Same dude who blew up the Nets season(s) because of clashes with the FO (and Kyrie basically signaling he was disrespected). His final move was either give me a max extension or trade me. And even though they were 1st in the East and a powerhouse he stayed true to his word because the Nets didn't offer a fully guaranteed max.
You cannot play games with Kyrie. I don't think he truthfully cares what Luka is getting paid or that he's lower on the proverbial totem pole. He wants a max. If he will not be given a max, you're asking yourself to be struck by Kyrie's indomitable sword of PR Nightmares, as he has an incentive to act out. Risking that kind of distraction over 10 million is foolish to me. If the Mavs didn't want Kyrie, they shouldn't have traded for him. As soon as that trade went through (and for the assets that they paid), they have to follow through and retain the asset (*and relationship*)
Give Kyrie the max. If you don't you have to SnT him for scraps. It really is that simple imo.
(05-24-2023, 12:38 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm glad we're largely in agreement regarding Cuban. However, I do think you're overlooking one important X-factor and that is Kyrie's sense of feeling respected. This is the same dude who asked for a trade immediately after winning the finals because he felt like he was number 2. Same dude who blew up the Nets season(s) because of clashes with the FO (and Kyrie basically signaling he was disrespected). His final move was either give me a max extension or trade me. And even though they were 1st in the East and a powerhouse he stayed true to his word because the Nets didn't offer a fully guaranteed max.
You cannot play games with Kyrie. I don't think he truthfully cares what Luka is getting paid or that he's lower on the proverbial totem pole. He wants a max. If he will not be given a max, you're asking yourself to be struck by Kyrie's indomitable sword of PR Nightmares, as he has an incentive to act out. Risking that kind of distraction over 10 million is foolish to me. If the Mavs didn't want Kyrie, they shouldn't have traded for him. As soon as that trade went through (and for the assets that they paid), they have to follow through and retain the asset (*and relationship*)
Give Kyrie the max. If you don't you have to SnT him for scraps. It really is that simple imo.
If there's absolutely no other way... then, sure.
But I'd make a really, really strong appeal for the value of his future legacy if he can win a couple of championships. And that might depend on getting the one additional complementary player that could put them over the top. Which might be worth a few million in salary.
(05-24-2023, 01:27 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Think he’s great, and that the deal the lakers got was the better option than the Kyrie path. Russell is an upgrade to Dinwiddie, Vanderbilt is a different but overlapping type of player to DFS, much younger, and about to break out. And, they wouldn’t have had to give up an UNPROTECTED (!!) ‘29 first for the privilege of overpaying either immediately on their next deals.
The Lakers front office, one of the worst in sports during recent years, is superior to the Mavs’.
I was asking more about Russell in a vacuum after these playoffs, not the Kyrie trade (I was VERY pro Vanderbilt on this board and would have made an additional trade to get him if it was an option).
I was just always surprised because he doesn't seem like a player you would gravitate towards, always felt like a pretty me first sort of guy when I watch him who plays no defense so was curious how you thought of him after getting basically played out of the rotation these playoffs.
It was actually kind of disheartening to see both Russell and Vanderbilt be too one way to be able to leave on the floor for long periods of time this post season.
Based on what you're saying here though, are you into what Dan relayed from Zach Lowe's recent podcast around a S&T for Vando/Bamba/Beasley/#17 for Kyrie? It actually did intrigue me quite a bit to be honest, addresses some of your front court needs and now you have 2 firsts to shop around to try to find a different second fiddle but I do think at this point it will easier to build out the roster with Kyrie on it, for better or worse.
LeBron watch continues. One would think that talking heads would focus on the ECFs or the Nuggets but it´s more important to speculate about LBJs future.
Favorite topic. LeBron joining the Warriors. O´Connor, Windhorst, Cowherd, Broussard all pushing the narrative.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...5237053442
I wonder if Mavs have anything similar or they just go window by window. Sure doesn't look like they have any long term plan.
It will also be most interesting to see if he enters a long waiting rebuild. If he puts Beal on the market, who would be most interested teams?
From the article:
Winger will be required to submit a five-year plan to Leonsis for approval, then update the plan after each year. Most important, Leonsis would not be against a rebuild if that’s the route Winger wants to take, a league source said.
https://theathletic.com/4551136/2023/05/...n-wizards/
(05-25-2023, 02:23 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if Mavs have anything similar or they just go window by window. Sure doesn't look like they have any long term plan.
What would that five year plan be for Dallas?
Do you really give Kyrie a PO in the fourth year (to be here a year longer than Luka if Luka bolts at the first opportunity)?
We all know the plan will include star chasing if we move on from Kyrie (or he moves on from us). Is it plan powder to go get Giannis in 2025? What do you turn Kyrie into now if that's the plan. Who else is really worth a multi-year plan?
If we retain Irving, we need to keep our good role players and try to add to them.
If we move toward Plan GA, Maxi should probably be packaged. Same for Reggie as their contracts don't line up. If the plan is to keep KI, contract lengths don't matter as much, but they are critical to Plan Powder.
The kind of center you might target is probably different with the two approaches. KI and Luka need dominant paint protection. GI needs a good defender, but 3 point ability enters the equation to keep the lane unblocked (not Turner has two years on his deal and can spread the floor a little).
Finally, we all know that pure Powder hasn't worked out too well for us. Better to have something to package and a full roster up to the apron so there is still something left when the star comes. Is Jarrett Allen on a 3 year better than Turner on a 2 year? You could package Allen as part of a deal (or easily send him to a third team), whereas a pure powder play like Turner leaves you with the risk he walks AND you miss out on the FA.
Would love to be a fly on the wall for these discussion.