(07-17-2022, 08:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]So this is saying we’re going to be the 7th seed.
It's saying that betters are overrating the Clippers and Wolves and underrating Dallas. A lot of Mavs fans are going to make good money taking the over.
I heard something on a national podcast (not Dallas related necessarily) that I found interesting about Philly. They negotiated with Harden on a number that took them fairly snug under the apron (which they can't cross for any reason this season). Then they went back to Harden and asked him to take even more of a cut so they could be $3-4mm under the apron. The idea being that they could take back additional salary in a trade and still be under the apron.
I'm not assuming Philly is holding their breath waiting to get Powell, but they are pretty thin behind often injured Embiid right now. So some thing like a two for one with Powell outgoing and Korkmaz and Thybulle returning works the match with Harden's reported number. There isn't any reason this wouldn't be done already if it was really about Powell. Joint pointing out Philly may not be done and have worked with their star to help them have flexibility. In fact, Harden's deal isn't final on Spotrac, so they may be waiting for whatever deal they have to materialize so they can give Harden the difference if the trade spread is smaller than anticipated.
(07-17-2022, 02:45 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ] and Korkmaz and Thybulle returning
Is there some reason DAL would have any interest in those guys? It looks to me like 2 who have been around several years already, gotten opportunity, but who still can't shoot, on multi-year deals, and one of them is a good defender. Is there anything else?
I can see why PHI would want to move players who don't have to be defended and clog up the spacing for Harden and Embiid, but not sure why the Mavs would be interested, for the same reasons. What's the benefit?
(07-17-2022, 04:06 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Is there some reason DAL would have any interest in those guys? It looks to me like 2 who have been around several years already, gotten opportunity, but who still can't shoot, on multi-year deals, and one of them is a good defender. Is there anything else?
I can see why PHI would want to move players who don't have to be defended and clog up the spacing for Harden and Embiid, but not sure why the Mavs would be interested, for the same reasons. What's the benefit?
Ballhandling, defense, and getting rid of that darned Powell.
Goodness gracious, if the Mavs don't have to pay a pick for the pleasure, this would be a killer good deal for them.
(07-17-2022, 04:06 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Is there some reason DAL would have any interest in those guys?
1) One is a 6'5", top 5 perimeter defender in the league. He is 25 and has been in the league three years and shot 35.7%, 30.1%, and 31.3% from three. There is another player on the Mavs who after three seasons and being 25 shot 29.3%, 29.9%, and 31.1% from three: D.F.S.
2) One is a career 35.5% three point shooter, who before last season shot 40.2% and 37.5% from three on 4.9 3PA per game. He is also a serviceable defender. A 6'7" wing about to turn 25.
They have their warts and haven't been consistent (which is why they are available), but good God they would be an amazing get for DP.
(07-17-2022, 04:21 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]1) One is a 6'5", top 5 perimeter defender in the league. He is 25 and has been in the league three years and shot 35.7%, 30.1%, and 31.3% from three. There is another player on the Mavs who after three seasons and being 25 shot 29.3%, 29.9%, and 31.1% from three: D.F.S.
2) One is a career 35.5% three point shooter, who before last season shot 40.2% and 37.5% from three on 4.9 3PA per game. He is also a serviceable defender. A 6'7" wing about to turn 25.
They have their warts and haven't been consistent (which is why they are available), but good God they would be an amazing get for DP.
While I share some of @"F Gump"'s skepticism over how useful either would be in the long run, I'd breathe a little easier knowing the 4th center had been turned into wings.
But, I'd prefer to nab a ball-handler instead, if that option is available.
(07-17-2022, 04:21 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ].
I get the attraction on Thybulle, at least a little bit. Maybe he's improving, maybe, and his defense is a plus. But he will be RFA next summer, and likely want a
big raise before there's time to bring him up to average offensively, so a good chance he's only a rental. Or, if you get a jump in his offense, then does he become ridiculously priced, based on one good offensive year that may or may not happen again.
But Korkmaz, man, I just don't see value there. Looks more like a bad contract to be stuck with, to me.
The last season for Korkmaz -- it shows 7p, 2r, 2a, 38% FG, 28% 3s, TS 50.2 (which is really bad), PER 10.2. That's who he is most recently.
I also see that his trend line is that he's getting worse year over year, each of the last 2 seasons. And he's been in the NBA 5 years already. B-ball ref shows he's not good as a defender, close to the worst on the team. In playoffs, he was apparently unplayable almost.
Contract is not cheap for what he's producing -- 2yrs 10.4M.
I will add that "Powell sucks" and "I'm tired of him on the Mavs" isn't a reason to do this deal, if you are just getting even more suckitude in return. He's gone in May no matter what. No need to take on bad multi-year contracts just to see him gone.
(07-17-2022, 05:26 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]But Korkmaz, man, I just don't see value there. Looks more like a bad contract to be stuck with, to me.
The last season for Korkmaz -- it shows 7p, 2r, 2a, 38% FG, 28% 3s, TS 50.2 (which is really bad), PER 10.2. That's who he is most recently.
Contract is not cheap for what he's producing -- 2yrs 10.4M.
If it has an impact on your opinion, I checked earlier and the last year of Korkmaz’s deal seems to be non-guaranteed. Essentially, all the money in this deal going either direction could be expiring if I’m not mistaken.
(07-17-2022, 04:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]While I share some of @"F Gump"'s skepticism over how useful either would be in the long run, I'd breathe a little easier knowing the 4th center had been turned into wings.
But, I'd prefer to nab a ball-handler instead, if that option is available.
So, a couple years ago (haven’t kept up with him much since) while he was still in Was (edit: doh! Started digging for myself and he was never in Was, was it someone else or did I get my city mixed up back then?) I remember having a convo with Kamm about the merits of Bogdan Bogi. At that time Kamm turned me on to Korkmaz being pretty much the same type of player (ball handler, defender, good shooter). Being a good shooter and defender can come and go, but ball handler?
Kamm have you kept up with him in that regard?
(07-17-2022, 05:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If it has an impact on your opinion, I checked earlier and the last year of Korkmaz’s deal seems to be non-guaranteed. Essentially, all the money in this deal going either direction could be expiring if I’m not mistaken.
Yes, if Korkmaz had no money guaranteed after this season, that would certainly matter, because then you aren't assuming bad future salary if he doesn't improve drastically this season.
I didn't look at that, just assuming it's all guaranteed. Then your note. Now I looked. However ...
Almost everything says it is fully guaranteed, with one odd exception. B-ref has no note that his final year is NG (which it typically has when that's the case), BI says it is G'teed, ,so does K Smith in a text (and I think he is the source for spotrac), so does the spotrac contract breakdown for Korkmaz. The one and only exception I've found is on the current PHI salary list at spotrac, in which it says he is owed 10.4M but only 5M g'teed. So I'm concluding his deal is fully guaranteed, and that the one note at spotrac was an error..
(07-17-2022, 06:24 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]So, a couple years ago (haven’t kept up with him much since) while he was still in Was (edit: doh! Started digging for myself and he was never in Was, was it someone else or did I get my city mixed up back then?) I remember having a convo with Kamm about the merits of Bogdan Bogi. At that time Kamm turned me on to Korkmaz being pretty much the same type of player (ball handler, defender, good shooter). Being a good shooter and defender can come and go, but ball handler?
Kamm have you kept up with him in that regard?
Ahhh, I got him mixed up with Satoransky.
(07-17-2022, 06:35 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Ahhh, I got him mixed up with Satoransky.
Speaking of Sato, he currently doesn’t have a contract. He seems like he plays well in Was. If we can figure out how they deploy him he would be a pretty good vet min guy. Not sure he’s someone that immediately makes you forget about Dragic, but I think he could have a chance given the right opportunity.
(07-17-2022, 06:47 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Speaking of Sato, he currently doesn’t have a contract. He seems like he plays well in Was. If we can figure out how they deploy him he would be a pretty good vet min guy. Not sure he’s someone that immediately makes you forget about Dragic, but I think he could have a chance given the right opportunity.
I thought he signed with Barcelona?
(07-17-2022, 04:06 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Is there some reason DAL would have any interest in those guys? It looks to me like 2 who have been around several years already, gotten opportunity, but who still can't shoot, on multi-year deals, and one of them is a good defender. Is there anything else?
I can see why PHI would want to move players who don't have to be defended and clog up the spacing for Harden and Embiid, but not sure why the Mavs would be interested, for the same reasons. What's the benefit?
Interesting. I expected just the opposite reaction. To me, Thybulle is the prize…the defensive wing we were supposedly interested in earlier in the offseason. I think we can afford him on the floor in lineups that don’t include McGee just fine.
Korkmaz is the cost. Similar dollars to Powell but spread over two years. I think he would get very little play here. But, on an after tax basis, pushing some of Powell’s salary to 23/24 is pretty valuable. If you think the Philly side makes sense, I think getting Thybulle and cutting salary in 22/23 is a nice win for Dallas.
(07-17-2022, 09:33 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]But, on an after tax basis, pushing some of Powell’s salary to 23/24 is pretty valuable.
I'm not highly enamored with Thybulle -- figuring he's a rental and not at all convinced he's playoff useful because of his lack of offensive skill -- but would take him for free on a dollar-for-dollar swap. I don't think he would be a keeper, however, because of skill set and anticipated future cost. That's just my basic reaction, and yours is clearly different.
But on the economics of it, I don't consider pushing Powell's salary back a year as a plus. If that was their vision, they have easy ways to push salary into future years, by doing a s-w on Powell, or maybe Bertans.
I do think they will continue to be taxpayers. That's one reason I wouldn't see it as a plus.
But imo delaying the cap hit also would get in the way of roster building options.
They still need 2 players. Probably need to turn THJ-Powell-Bertans into those 2, eventually, and preferably by end of season. If they can do that and add those 2 to the existing 6 man core, that should give them a solid foundation to work from each season.
A different route to the same thing would be to get 1 of those guys somehow this season by trade, while getting out from under either THJ or Bertans, and then shoot to end up with full MLE room to get the other in 2023 summer. In that scenario, a $5.5M bump in payroll (Korkmaz) probably becomes the diff between tx-MLE and full MLE, and offers a much lesser set of possibilities.
(07-17-2022, 08:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]So this is saying we’re going to be the 7th seed.
As we are constructed at the moment, that seems accurate to optimistic.
We lost our secondbest player and his backup at the most important position. And we didn't even bother so sign a new Vetmin guy.