(01-28-2023, 08:59 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Still, top 45 or so players is probably higher than most of us would have ranked either.
I think that is right for Wood's talent level.
(01-28-2023, 09:24 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think that is right for Wood's talent level.
At least offensively. “Talent Level” and his practical function are still a bit disconnected in my mind. No one ever answers the question I’ve posed a half dozen times (outside of my own answer…Charlotte). Which team is going to pay us something to get Wood to start for them. For all of his gifts, I only come up with one at center (besides us).
At PF, I might argue Indy or Miami could use someone at PF, but I’m not sure either coach would put up with him. Another way of looking at this…which team is going to pay him more than $17mm as a FA this summer. I’m very luke warm on Wood as a starter and that is starter money. His ‘talent level’ includes both ends of the court and a dozen other things besides points and rebounds. When those things are added, he feels like a much better super-sub than he does a starter almost anywhere but here. And, I think his value here (and Charlotte potentially) is more about our lack of alternatives than his ability to carry his position on a contender. I think I’d rather bring in a defensive anchor and move Wood to the bench than start him. If we are going to start him, we need to do a better job of supporting him at the other positions than we do currently.
(01-28-2023, 09:43 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]which team is going to pay him more than $17mm as a FA this summer.
It is an interesting question. I think 17 MM is fair. Sure, he could get more if he plays well the rest of the year. But he could also get less. It is different than the Jalen situation, but also the same. Does he want the security now, rather than gambling several months down the line? So I hope the Mavs are aggressive trying to lock him up. Even if it for an asset. I think if he plays at this current level, he is not a bad asset at 17 million per year. 20-25 million is a different story.
In all honesty, does his people think there is a 25 million offer for him this summer? If not, it may be best to take a slightly lower market offer at 17 million and get solid security for the next 2,3 or 4 years.
(01-28-2023, 09:43 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]No one ever answers the question I’ve posed a half dozen times (outside of my own answer…Charlotte). Which team is going to pay us something to get Wood to start for them.
Looking from TDL perspective - teams that could use a center (any of them could then resign him in the summer):
- GSW
- BKN (more as a PF option, but can play next to Claxton or when he is on the bench)
- LAC
- LAL
- Tor
Here are some options, looking from the summer perspective:
- Chicago (they might trade Vuc or he can walk in the summer - they will have cap space if Vuc and White are gone without additional salary)
- Cha
- Ind (pending on Turners future)
- LAL
- Tor (they still need a center and there are scenarios where they could have cap space in the summer)
(01-28-2023, 09:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]If not, it may be best to take a slightly lower market offer at 17 million and get solid security for the next 2,3 or 4 years.
I think the years are the only thing being negotiated. But here he might feel lowballed if the offer is 2 years only. That is just 35 mil. I can see a scenario where he feels offended by this offer and tries his luck in the summer. Even if someone offers him just 60/4 or even 50/4 then (without any better offers), it is still more than Dallas offered.
(01-28-2023, 09:24 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think that is right for Wood's talent level.
I see Wood's total talent level is not as high as some of you have him. He's great offensively and though he has made some strides on defense, he could become a better weakside or help defender. Too many times he fails to rotate and is out of position to protect the rim. For that reason, I just can't justify him being ranked so high. I also see him more as a PF, than a C. Maybe it's just me. But if he's looking to get a very big bag, he's going to have to improve on the other end of the court.
(01-28-2023, 10:45 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Looking from TDL perspective - teams that could use a center (any of them could then resign him in the summer):
- GSW
- BKN (more as a PF option, but can play next to Claxton or when he is on the bench)
- LAC
- LAL
- Tor
Here are some options, looking from the summer perspective:
- Chicago (they might trade Vuc or he can walk in the summer - they will have cap space if Vuc and White are gone without additional salary)
- Cha
- Ind (pending on Turners future)
- LAL
- Tor (they still need a center and there are scenarios where they could have cap space in the summer)
Thanks for playing along…
I’m going to mildly object to Brooklyn. Wood would be their fourth big behind Claxton, Durant and Simmons. In a playoff rotation, Claxton is playing very well and is a much better defender than Wood. He wouldn’t start there.
I don’t see LAL at all, starter or bench. Bryant is playing well and there is AD, Lebron and now Hachimura.
Toronto does need a C and shooting is an issue. He might fit, but this kind of pre-supposes they make another move. Otherwise, I suspect Nurse would stick with Siakam/Barnes and Wood would take the place of one of their several mediocre backup bigs.
I think GSW and LAC are interesting, but he’d definitely come off the bench for Golden State (and I’m not sure his D would be welcomed there even off the bench). I think they’d still start Zubac and Morris in LA. Its pretty ingrained in what they do Plus, if everyone is healthy, there aren’t any shots for him next to Kawhi and George. But, he could potentially come off the bench with Covington.
The original question was “pay us something to start for them”. I can see him being valued in some of the teams you named, but I doubt he’d be valued as a starter for any of them.. If not, that further begs the question about starter money in the summer. Speaking of the summer, I’ve previously mentioned CHA and IND. I don’t see it for LAL for the reasons stated above and it feels like Toronto and Chicago would have to make another move before they’d pay Wood starter money. If we are going to say ‘so and so team might trade someone’, then I guess you can include almost any team. The original question had more to do with paying us something to slot Wood in as a starter with what they already have. I still think that market is extremely limited and therefore his ability to command money this summer is also limited.
(01-28-2023, 01:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I still think that market is extremely limited and therefore his ability to command money this summer is also limited.
It only takes one. What I tried to show with the second list is how quickly someone can get in the mix.
Mavs can try to play tough, but they can't really afford to, imho. They can lose way more if a certain player walks than gain by saving a couple of million. That is of course, if winning is the main priority.
(01-28-2023, 01:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t see LAL at all, starter or bench. Bryant is playing well and there is AD, Lebron and now Hachimura.
Bryant is playing well, but he will likely be gone next season and LAL desperately needs shooting. I agree they have other priorities to solve, but I could see them in the mix.
(01-28-2023, 01:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]He might fit, but this kind of pre-supposes they make another move.
Another move is not needed, if they do it at TDL. They can trade for him using Trent salary directly or three way. Both Trent and FVV can walk in the summer and Toronto would have cap space in this scenario.
(01-28-2023, 01:09 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]he’d definitely come off the bench for Golden State (and I’m not sure his D would be welcomed there even off the bench)
The second part might be the reason GSW wouldn't be interested for him at all. But if they would be, I think he would start. Wiseman was supposed to be the starter there, but that one failed.
Clippers are looking for a center and/or PG. Either just a back-up for Zubac or his replacement. I think they were in Turner rumors. Zubac is their weak link, they always play better without him in serious games. I agree a defensive minded center would make more sense for them. But, if they would go for Wood, Zubac is going out.
(01-28-2023, 01:36 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Another move is not needed, if they do it at TDL. They can trade for him using Trent salary directly or three way. Both Trent and FVV can walk in the summer and Toronto would have cap space in this scenario.
I think one of the more fascinating things to see is whether Dallas wants any part of a Klutch client. I’ve not seen any real evidence of that historically, but this is a new regime. Same goes regarding CAA following the Brunson situation. We went a decade after Nash before we did anything significant with Duffy. Were bridges burned with CAA, or was Nico successful in helping Mark stay at the grown-up table?
At the same time, I’ve not seen any real evidence that Dallas with Nico is still interested in Schwartz guys. In fact, he’s so new that it is hard to discern any agent pattern. Add to the uncertainty the fact we don’t really know if he was pulling the strings in the summer of 21. We don’t have to have favorite agents or agents we don’t really like. Maybe that is even preferable. But, it isn’t what we’ve done historically. I’ll believe we are going to put ourselves in position to lose a Klutch client for nothing when I see it.
(01-28-2023, 02:19 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I think one of the more fascinating things to see is whether Dallas wants any part of a Klutch client. I’ve not seen any real evidence of that historically, but this is a new regime. Same goes regarding CAA following the Brunson situation. We went a decade after Nash before we did anything significant with Duffy. Were bridges burned with CAA, or was Nico successful in helping Mark stay at the grown-up table?
At the same time, I’ve not seen any real evidence that Dallas with Nico is still interested in Schwartz guys. In fact, he’s so new that it is hard to discern any agent pattern. Add to the uncertainty the fact we don’t really know if he was pulling the strings in the summer of 21. We don’t have to have favorite agents or agents we don’t really like. Maybe that is even preferable. But, it isn’t what we’ve done historically. I’ll believe we are going to put ourselves in position to lose a Klutch client for nothing when I see it.
Klutch is representing "half of league", so it would be very bad business to not deal with them. However in this case of Toronto, most scenarios probably doesn't have us getting one. We don't need Trent, so if Toronto would be after Wood, that would likely be a three way deal.
(01-28-2023, 02:23 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Klutch is representing "half of league", so it would be very bad business to not deal with them. However in this case of Toronto, most scenarios probably doesn't have us getting one. We don't need Trent, so if Toronto would be after Wood, that would likely be a three way deal.
FVV just changed to Klutch
(01-28-2023, 02:33 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]FVV just changed to Klutch
I know, but I didn't mention FVV as salary match
I didn't mention him because I think Toronto would ask for more than just Wood for FVV and I am not really sure I want to offer him a contract higher than what Brunson got. That would be Mavs admiting what a stupid mistake they made
Embiid is going ham on the Nuggets. Has 47 pts and 18 rebs. Guess he's pissed for not being named a All-Star starter and MVP runner up the last 2 yrs.
(01-28-2023, 05:04 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1619454876685336580
Wow, $30mm per year for 2 years beyond this one? BUT, $17mm is paid in 22/23, which leaves $43mm to be divided over 2 years or $21.5mm AAV. Could be even, escalating or declining.
I believe $17mm now gets them $2mm over the minimum for the season. They are also a bit over $10mm in remaining cap room. So, if they were to trade for someone like Collins, they would need to send out about $13mm in salary to do the deal based on cap room.
If Collins were to happen, I think Theis and Bitadze gets the money right. We’d need to see the exact deal for Turner, but McConnell and Bitadze might get there also.
Edit: One interesting aspect of this is it informs the market for Poeltl and Wood. The three aren’t perfect comparables because their games are very different. But they are positionally similar.
(01-28-2023, 05:21 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]So, presumably $20mm per year for 3 years beyond this one. BUT, $17mm is paid in 22/23, which leaves $43mm to be divided over 3 years or $14.33mm AAV. Could be even, escalating or declining.
I believe $17mm now gets them $2mm over the minimum for the season. They are also a bit over $10mm in remaining cap room. So, if they were to trade for someone like Collins, they would need to send out about $13mm in salary to do the deal based on cap room.
If Collins were to happen, I think Theis and Bitadze gets the money right. We’d need to see the exact deal for Turner, but McConnell and Bitadze might get there also.
Edit: One interesting aspect of this is it informs the market for Poeltl and Wood. The three aren’t perfect comparables because their games are very different. But they are positionally similar.
It says a 2 year extension, but you’re saying 3 years after this one? The 1 year makes a difference for your edit part. $42.9M divided between 2 years is roughly $21M starting with a max raise.
(01-28-2023, 05:33 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]It says a 2 year extension, but you’re saying 3 years after this one? The 1 year makes a difference for your edit part. $42.9M divided between 2 years is roughly $21M starting with a max raise.
Yeah, I corrected already. Keith Smith says $10.7mm in remaining cap space this year. I noticed my mistake when I went to his twitter.
Smith says the two years are declining.
All of Indy’s older players expire when the cap jumps in 25. Hield has one year left. Turner, McConnell and Theis all expire the year after Hield (though McConnell is not fully guaranteed his final year. Interesting that as much as they are paying Turner, they really aren’t making a LT committment.