MavsBoard

(08-12-2021, 12:06 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, it seems like we're talking about spending one or more of the Mavs' few assets in a trade that would require shoehorning an ill-fitting piece into a position they really don't need or have. 


I wonder if the Mavs are truly as enthusiastic about making this trade happen as all that.

Don’t like this thinking. If we get Lauri at a discount, isn’t that a better trade asset than the one we’re giving up? TPE is just a limited form of powder, no?

(08-12-2021, 11:27 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Markkanen´s agent only has Alex Len as another NBA client . . . .

He also has some Euro guys, but yeah. Makes me think the dollar total matters more than the per year number. The agent has a chance to get paid, like never before. And alternatively, Lauri signing the QO probably means the agent gets fired, wouldn’t you think? Don’t see this ending with the status quo. 

Lauri also seems to have a better chance of cracking the starting lineup in Dallas than in Chicago or New Orleans, it seems.

(08-12-2021, 12:52 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Don’t like this thinking. If we get Lauri at a discount, isn’t that a better trade asset than the one we’re giving up? TPE is just a limited form of powder, no? 

I think this sort of thinking might make sense if the Mavs see themselves in a rebuilding phase -- where collecting assets is a goal in itself, and the fit is of secondary importance. 

Would probably need to understand more specifically what you mean by "at a discount." At some price point, that may be true. But it seems like a FRP, even if in the distant future, might well be a more widely prized asset than LM for three years at a million or two off his asking price. 

At any rate, if the Mavs view themselves as a "win now" team, fit actually does matter. As badly as they need another playmaker and rim protection, I don't fully understand why they want to spend one of their few assets on an eighth big man who is a one-way offensive player. Yes, the new big man will himself be a piece available for trade, but it might not be that easy to turn him into a more needed asset. At least right now, it doesn't look like teams are lining up to nab him.

(08-12-2021, 12:52 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]If we get Lauri at a discount, isn’t that a better trade asset than the one we’re giving up?

That's the appropriate question, and I think you'll find that people on different sides of this argument would answer it differently. 

I would love LM on the roster, but NOT at the expense of yet ANOTHER first round pick. I want those available to COMBINE for the next actual difference maker who becomes unhappy. Towards the end of Luka's contract, those dudes will start wanting to play with him, and we'll wish the Mavs had a boatload of picks to spend. 2027 is SO far down the road. Insane to even consider including that for a guy I'm not even sure is an NBA starter. 

If you see him as a starter, it becomes more debatable. SO, your question is the right one imo.

(08-12-2021, 01:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I would love LM on the roster, but NOT at the expense of yet ANOTHER first round pick. I want those available to COMBINE for the next actual difference maker who becomes unhappy.

But you also need young, talented players on good salaries to salary match for that star. If the Mavs can rehab LM's image and career arc, he becomes part of the package you send to another team in the next year or so. First round picks alone won't do it for a star these days.

(08-12-2021, 01:11 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]But you also need young, talented players on good salaries to salary match for that star.

Absolutely, which is why I think @"Jommybone"'s question was the right one. 

I see LM as a good piece to have, but NOT a needle mover in any kind of deal like that. Just my opinion, but I flat out don't believe he's a starter on a good team. Those who disagree with that opinion might see the situation completely differently.

Nobody (except Donnie Nelson maybe) is gonna like this reply. But here goes anyway:

I don’t think Mavs FRPs have any real value—to them or in trade—because everybody looks at Luka and knows they ain’t picking till the end anyway.

(08-12-2021, 01:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I flat out don't believe he's a starter on a good team

Wow, interesting. 

He shot 48%/40%/83% last year, is 24, has shown flashes on both sides of the ball (and of course warts on both sides of the ball), and has legit NBA athleticism.

What's your big beef with him?

(08-12-2021, 01:21 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody (except Donnie Nelson maybe) is gonna like this reply. But here goes anyway:

I don’t think Mavs FRPs have any real value—to them or in trade—because everybody looks at Luka and knows they ain’t picking till the end anyway.

Doesn't matter. When a team lets the kind of guy we're talking about go, they want a HAUL. Are Milwaukee's picks going to be good? No, but that didn't stop New Orleans from holding out for FOUR of them (plus pick swaps in between, I think) for Jrue Holiday. 

Needle-moving trades are EXPENSIVE.

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(08-12-2021, 01:23 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]What's your big beef with him?

Soft. Not a two-way player. 

I'd take him as a starter, maybe, if he was replacing KP. But I'd hope it was temporary.

(08-12-2021, 01:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Soft. Not a two-way player. 

Is this based on something more than reputation? Serious question.

(08-12-2021, 01:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't matter. When a team lets the kind of guy we're talking about go, they want a HAUL. Are Milwaukee's picks going to be good? No, but that didn't stop New Orleans from holding out for FOUR of them (plus pick swaps in between, I think) for Jrue Holiday. 

Needle-moving trades are EXPENSIVE.

I am not blind to your point. But I wonder if recency bias might be informing it. The choice isn’t FRP vs. no FRP. It’s the loss of a future pick during Luka’s contract and likely to fall in his absolute prime (so not likely a high pick) vs. a below-market contract on a talented big who misjudged the now-dried-up market and is about to go somewhere cheap.

I don’t pretend to know which is more valuable. Maybe Lauri will never be able to defend my gramma. But I don’t see a future, Luka-era first as a very big price to pay regardless of what we’re getting for it.

(08-12-2021, 01:23 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, interesting. 

He shot 48%/40%/83% last year, is 24, has shown flashes on both sides of the ball (and of course warts on both sides of the ball), and has legit NBA athleticism.

What's your big beef with him?

I think Markkanen is a better offensive player than pouting Porzingis. I think the eye test and data are clear on that too.

(08-12-2021, 01:05 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]At any rate, if the Mavs view themselves as a "win now" team, fit actually does matter. 

He does fit, as a shooter. 

On top of that he could be a youthful dynamic player that adds to your talent level.

If it’s about constructing a roster that fits to Luka; Luka-Markannen could work.

Your other points about whether or not he’s a starter, the # of big men we already have on the roster and the assets being given up all are good considerations, but I don’t see fit concerns as highly factored into this hold up.

(08-12-2021, 01:21 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody (except Donnie Nelson maybe) is gonna like this reply. But here goes anyway:

I don’t think Mavs FRPs have any real value—to them or in trade—because everybody looks at Luka and knows they ain’t picking till the end anyway.

I hear what you're saying, but on the flip side teams probably also see the Mavs' picks as being one season-ending Luka injury away from being really good picks.

I think the better value and risk would be to acquire LM but I can see both sides.

I'm all in on LM with the TPE.  

Bench or starter, the Mavs need more talent and LM would be one the more talented players the moment he gets here.

At the TPE cost, he is also unlikely to be an immovable object, if necessary.

If he is the best remaining target on the market, and wants to be here, shoot first and ask questions later.

(08-12-2021, 01:27 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Is this based on something more than reputation? Serious question.

Obviously, I could be wrong, and I'm not as familiar with him as I am with some other players, but YES, this is my opinion based on WATCHING him play. 

Seriously, I don't get it. I see a 3rd big.

(08-12-2021, 02:28 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Markkanen is a better offensive player than pouting Porzingis. I think the eye test and data are clear on that too.

The data suggests KP is clearly better on offense.  Both Win shares and OBPM suggest KP is significantly better, and thats with Lauri going against second units this last year.  KP was disappointing on defense this year, but the KP bashing on this blog can be out of control.

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(08-12-2021, 03:21 PM)msf4717 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm all in on LM with the TPE.  

Bench or starter, the Mavs need more talent and LM would be one the more talented players the moment he gets here.

At the TPE cost, he is also unlikely to be an immovable object, if necessary.

If he is the best remaining target on the market, and wants to be here, shoot first and ask questions later.

Totally agree, as long as its not costing us a first, Brunson or Maxi.

(08-12-2021, 04:55 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]as long as its not costing us a first, Brunson or Maxi.