MavsBoard

(08-07-2021, 10:05 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't it feel sometimes like Mark Cuban is the guy who hits the lottery and blows it all on beer and Twinkies?  Twice?

Yes.  Which is ironic that he runs "Shark Tank"....  which don't get me wrong, he has business acumen but Good God he just fell @ssbackwards into money with Broadcast.com.  

The greatest owners in sports are the ones that you can't seem to remember their names.  But alas, his ego gets in the way.....

(08-07-2021, 10:05 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't it feel sometimes like Mark Cuban is the guy who hits the lottery and blows it all on beer and Twinkies?  Twice?

Nah, once his 83 year old neighbour won the lottery, but the neighbour had no relatives, so he gave all the money to Cuban.

I guarantee you that Markkanen deal is sitting there for days now.

The Bulls don´t want him.
He doesn´t want the Bulls.
He named the Mavs as a potential destination.
The Bulls need front court help badly. They currently only have Vucevic and Bradley. 
They have two PF/Cs on their whole roster and no major capspace.

Any 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deal is desirable for them. 

It makes even WCS and Powell attractive to them, because the FA option are scarce and arguably worse.

S&T Markkanen 48/3 for Kleber + WCS is the absolute worst version that is out there for the Mavs imho.

The hope is that the Mavs (i.e Nico, cause Cuban is still the same terrible owner) is simply negotiating for a better version like Powell + WCS or Markkanen + White for Kleber + Powell + WCS + Brunson. -->

Picture this conversation.

Luka: I´m so pissed I could only get 4th place with Slovenia, because we lacked depth, talent and I was tired again, but we are a country of two million people, what can you do. So onto the Mavs, who we got.
Cuban: We traded Josh Richardson for Reggie Bullock + Sterling Brown + Moses Brown.
Luka: And?
Cuban: That´s it.

Duffy already thinks Cuban is a moron and Cuban has done nothing this summer (so far) to change his opinion.

I miss the days, when we still signed players, because they were just good at basketball. Today they probably would not sign Monte Ellis even when he is the last option out there, cause his advanced stats are not cool. Was still the two best post championship seasons we had, when we lucked into him on a bargain deal.

--> Markkanen/White solves all our problems. We can get Bismack Biyombo and Mike Scott with veteran minimum deals.

Maybe we can pay the Pistons with the remaining cash money + 2nd rounder for a Burke vs. Diallo S&T.

Doncic/White/Terry
THJ/Diallo/Brown
DFS/Bullock/Green
Markkanen/Biyombo/Scott
Porzingis/Brown/Boban

We can experiment with small ball stuff, where we put DFS at the four, to account for the depth issue at PF. If everything fails we still got the TPE to make a push for Favours or Nance Jr. later in the season.

(08-07-2021, 11:30 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, once his 83 year old neighbour won the lottery, but the neighbour had no relatives, so he gave all the money to Cuban.

I guarantee you that Markkanen deal is sitting there for days now.

The Bulls don´t want him.
He doesn´t want the Bulls.
He named the Mavs as a potential destination.
The Bulls need front court help badly. They currently only have Vucevic and Bradley. 
They have two PF/Cs on their whole roster and no major capspace.

Any 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deal is desirable for them. 

It makes even WCS and Powell attractive to them, because the FA option are scarce and arguably worse.

S&T Markkanen 48/3 for Kleber + WCS is the absolute worst version that is out there for the Mavs imho.

The hope is that the Mavs (i.e Nico, cause Cuban is still the same terrible owner) is simply negotiating for a better version like Powell + WCS or Markkanen + White for Kleber + Powell + WCS + Brunson. -->

Picture this conversation.

Luka: I´m so pissed I could only get 4th place with Slovenia, because we lacked depth, talent and I was tired again, but we are a country of two million people, what can you do. So onto the Mavs, who we got.
Cuban: We traded Josh Richardson for Reggie Bullock + Sterling Brown + Moses Brown.
Luka: And?
Cuban: That´s it.

Duffy already thinks Cuban is a moron and Cuban has done nothing this summer (so far) to change his opinion.

I miss the days, when we still signed players, because they were just good at basketball. Today they probably would not sign Monte Ellis even when he is the last option out there, cause his advanced stats are not cool. Was still the two best post championship seasons we had, when we lucked into him on a bargain deal.

--> Markkanen/White solves all our problems. We can get Bismack Biyombo and Mike Scott with veteran minimum deals.

Maybe we can pay the Pistons with the remaining cash money + 2nd rounder for a Burke vs. Diallo S&T.

Doncic/White/Terry
THJ/Diallo/Brown
DFS/Bullock/Green
Markkanen/Biyombo/Scott
Porzingis/Brown/Boban

We can experiment with small ball stuff, where we put DFS at the four, to account for the depth issue at PF. If everything fails we still got the TPE to make a push for Favours or Nance Jr. later in the season.

I really do agree with most of your post, but Marrkkanen is so pathetic on defense and isn't a good rebounder, that's concerning to me that we would try to pair him with KP.  So, as much as I'm frustrated that Cuban has won the lottery TWICE with Dirk and now with Doncic, and doesn't seem to be doing much with them, I'm not a giant Markkanen fan.

CAVEAT to Markkanen --- The only times they've played him over 30 minutes a game, he did go for 18/9 (36% from 3), but KP's worst year last year on defense is still probably better than LM's best year...  I haven't done a deep dive into the numbers, but DWS, DBPM and VORP bear that out to a tee.

(08-07-2021, 11:30 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, once his 83 year old neighbour won the lottery, but the neighbour had no relatives, so he gave all the money to Cuban.

I guarantee you that Markkanen deal is sitting there for days now.

The Bulls don´t want him.
He doesn´t want the Bulls.
He named the Mavs as a potential destination.
The Bulls need front court help badly. They currently only have Vucevic and Bradley. 
They have two PF/Cs on their whole roster and no major capspace.

Any 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deal is desirable for them. 

It makes even WCS and Powell attractive to them, because the FA option are scarce and arguably worse.

S&T Markkanen 48/3 for Kleber + WCS is the absolute worst version that is out there for the Mavs imho.

The hope is that the Mavs (i.e Nico, cause Cuban is still the same terrible owner) is simply negotiating for a better version like Powell + WCS or Markkanen + White for Kleber + Powell + WCS + Brunson. -->

Picture this conversation.

Luka: I´m so pissed I could only get 4th place with Slovenia, because we lacked depth, talent and I was tired again, but we are a country of two million people, what can you do. So onto the Mavs, who we got.
Cuban: We traded Josh Richardson for Reggie Bullock + Sterling Brown + Moses Brown.
Luka: And?
Cuban: That´s it.

Duffy already thinks Cuban is a moron and Cuban has done nothing this summer (so far) to change his opinion.

I miss the days, when we still signed players, because they were just good at basketball. Today they probably would not sign Monte Ellis even when he is the last option out there, cause his advanced stats are not cool. Was still the two best post championship seasons we had, when we lucked into him on a bargain deal.

--> Markkanen/White solves all our problems. We can get Bismack Biyombo and Mike Scott with veteran minimum deals.

Maybe we can pay the Pistons with the remaining cash money + 2nd rounder for a Burke vs. Diallo S&T.

Doncic/White/Terry
THJ/Diallo/Brown
DFS/Bullock/Green
Markkanen/Biyombo/Scott
Porzingis/Brown/Boban

We can experiment with small ball stuff, where we put DFS at the four, to account for the depth issue at PF. If everything fails we still got the TPE to make a push for Favours or Nance Jr. later in the season.

I’m all aboard the Markkanen train and I’m also interested in Coby White. How does White compare to Brunson? Better? Worse? Equal?

(08-07-2021, 10:05 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't it feel sometimes like Mark Cuban is the guy who hits the lottery and blows it all on beer and Twinkies?  Twice?

It's more like the Mavs are the only ones that never got anything in the lottery.

I don't want to make excuses, I hate what they did rosterwise since last year. But they were hit with some really bad luck too.

(08-07-2021, 12:39 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]I really do agree with most of your post, but Marrkkanen is so pathetic on defense and isn't a good rebounder, that's concerning to me that we would try to pair him with KP.  So, as much as I'm frustrated that Cuban has won the lottery TWICE with Dirk and now with Doncic, and doesn't seem to be doing much with them, I'm not a giant Markkanen fan.

CAVEAT to Markkanen --- The only times they've played him over 30 minutes a game, he did go for 18/9 (36% from 3), but KP's worst year last year on defense is still probably better than LM's best year...  I haven't done a deep dive into the numbers, but DWS, DBPM and VORP bear that out to a tee.

I really don´t get where you all find these numbers. I´ll never make numbers the be all and end all of everything, but I seriously don´t understand where you get all these numbers.

His career ON/OFF OPP ORTG is virtually zero, so not negative or positive, certainly not worst in the league.

Career rebounding average per 36 minutes.

WCS 9.6
Kristaps Porzingis 9.0
Dwight Powell is 8.8
Lauri Markkanen 8.6
Maxi Kleber 7.3

DWS career average

Porzingis 2.2
Markkanen 1.5
Kleber 1.5
WCS 1.4
Powell 1.0

DBPM

Powell 1.0
WCS 0.6
Kleber 0.4
Porzingis -0.1
Markkanen -1.2

VORP

Porzingis 1.5
Markkanen 0.7
Powell 0.7
Kleber 0.7
WCS 0.5

All from basketball reference.

I´m not arguing what level of defender Markkanen truly is, but his raw numbers are pretty close to Powell/Kleber, certainly so much that the age difference and potential to peak as a 20 PPG, 50/40/90 shooter, make this a really easy decision. He´s certainly nowhere near the worst defender in the league and Maxi and especially Powell are not f****** Ben Wallace on defense.

Markannen has two very interesting things going for him: he's a big who can shoot (very valuable) and he's young (relative to Kleber, Powell, etc). 

I'm into both of those qualities. 

But, I see people here assuming that if he was acquired and given a big role here it's a forgone conclusion that he'll take the next step and be a notable player. I'm not so sure about that. 

I'd love him on a "wow, they got Markannen for that?" level of contract, but he's not the type of player I think they'll kick themselves for not taking a huge risk to snag, imo. Could be wrong, obviously.

(08-07-2021, 01:09 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Career rebounding average per 36 minutes.

WCS 9.6
Kristaps Porzingis 9.0
Dwight Powell is 8.8
Lauri Markkanen 8.6
Maxi Kleber 7.3

LM's rebounding peaked his sophomore season and has declined each of the past two seasons.  He's also missed 27% of his games.

I am Maxi's number one fan and think he's a better player than LM but at this point, I would probably do the trade just for the possible upside.  Perhaps I'm just getting desperate for some talent infusion.

(08-07-2021, 01:44 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I am Maxi's number one fan and think he's a better player than LM but at this point, I would probably do the trade just for the possible upside.  Perhaps I'm just getting desperate for some talent infusion.

I can see the validity of this. 

I suppose it's probably tough for the Mavs to talk themselves into thinking that way. They're probably thinking most about getting out of the first round now. 

(08-07-2021, 01:44 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I am Maxi's number one fan and think he's a better player than LM but at this point, I would probably do the trade just for the possible upside.  Perhaps I'm just getting desperate for some talent infusion.

I like Maxi too but it is beside the point.  Maxi's our second best defender, maybe 3rd with the addition of Bullock.  That puts a lot of pressure on KP rounding back into defensive form and WCS showing up every night.  Either my be possible but both of those things happening seems highly unlikely.

(08-07-2021, 01:51 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I like Maxi too but it is beside the point.  Maxi's our second best defender, maybe 3rd with the addition of Bullock.  That puts a lot of pressure on KP rounding back into defensive form and WCS showing up every night.  Either my be possible but both of those things happening seems highly unlikely.

The way I look at Maxi…. What does a Maxi/DFS forward combo give you that a Bullock/DFS forward combo doesn’t? Before this season I would’ve said Maxi’s shot blocking but that seems to have disappeared from his game. The larger point is that as much as we like Maxi, his production is replaceable.

(08-07-2021, 02:00 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]The way I look at Maxi…. What does a Maxi/DFS forward combo give you that a Bullock/DFS forward combo doesn’t? Before this season I would’ve said Maxi’s shot blocking but that seems to have disappeared from his game. The larger point is that as much as we like Maxi, his production is replaceable.

Size.  Maxi isn't unreplaceable but we have no one on the roster that currently can replace him.

(08-07-2021, 01:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/iamvega1982/status/9...9229692929

All I see there is a stupid decision to force an out of control shot up over a double team. You disagree?

(08-07-2021, 01:51 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I like Maxi too but it is beside the point.  Maxi's our second best defender, maybe 3rd with the addition of Bullock.  That puts a lot of pressure on KP rounding back into defensive form and WCS showing up every night.  Either my be possible but both of those things happening seems highly unlikely.

I think the idea is, if you move Bullock to first unit instead of Maxi, Markkanens shooting might be more valuable on the bench than Maxi defense.

(08-07-2021, 02:05 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think the idea is, if you move Bullock to first unit instead of Maxi, Markkanens shooting might be more valuable on the bench than Maxi defense.

I get it, I think.  And it might not be a bad plan but we are chock of one dimensional 4s & 5s which is why I'd reject the idea.

(08-07-2021, 02:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]All I see there is a stupid decision to force an out of control shot up over a double team. You disagree?

I do not think LM is some great defender (I DO think he is a solid defender who is underrated in that area though).....I just thought it was interesting to see him against KP.

(08-07-2021, 01:09 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I really don´t get where you all find these numbers. I´ll never make numbers the be all and end all of everything, but I seriously don´t understand where you get all these numbers.

His career ON/OFF OPP ORTG is virtually zero, so not negative or positive, certainly not worst in the league.

Career rebounding average per 36 minutes.

WCS 9.6
Kristaps Porzingis 9.0
Dwight Powell is 8.8
Lauri Markkanen 8.6
Maxi Kleber 7.3

DWS career average

Porzingis 2.2
Markkanen 1.5
Kleber 1.5
WCS 1.4
Powell 1.0

DBPM

Powell 1.0
WCS 0.6
Kleber 0.4
Porzingis -0.1
Markkanen -1.2

VORP

Porzingis 1.5
Markkanen 0.7
Powell 0.7
Kleber 0.7
WCS 0.5

All from basketball reference.

I´m not arguing what level of defender Markkanen truly is, but his raw numbers are pretty close to Powell/Kleber, certainly so much that the age difference and potential to peak as a 20 PPG, 50/40/90 shooter, make this a really easy decision. He´s certainly nowhere near the worst defender in the league and Maxi and especially Powell are not f****** Ben Wallace on defense.

Sorry I didn't agree with you hard enough and hurt your feelings, (and I did say I agree with you) but there's no need to start whining with the overdramatic "I don´t get where you all find these numbers" stuff.

It's pretty simple and anyone who actually wondered where the numbers came from, instead of pretending that they are so hard to find and so obscure in an attempt to discredit the opinion of the person talking about them, because you don't like the conclusion they draw, could easily find them.

But I'll take you at your word that it's so hard.  Glad to help.

Here you go
- Go to Google.com
- search "Lauri Markkenan stats"
- in the top three to 5 results (probably top 1) from basketballreference.com
- then scroll down until you see the states I mentioned.

Repeat the same process, except search "Kristapps Porzingis stats"

I seriously don't understand the snark when then numbers are clearly there, but if you are going to start out acting all overdramatic (unless you are just trying to troll for fun, which I get, if things are slow), then I'm kind of stopping there and letting you go find a silo where people only agree with you.

Maybe Lauri is your hero and it really offended you that I didn't just automatically say he's Basketball Jesus or something, but I'm moving on.

Maybe I misread the numbers and if so please forgive me, but I don't think I did.

Carry on.

(08-07-2021, 04:20 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry I didn't agree with you hard enough and hurt your feelings, (and I did say I agree with you) but there's no need to start whining with the overdramatic "I don´t get where you all find these numbers" stuff.

It's pretty simple and anyone who actually wondered where the numbers came from, instead of pretending that they are so hard to find and so obscure in an attempt to discredit the opinion of the person talking about them, because you don't like the conclusion they draw, could easily find them.

But I'll take you at your word that it's so hard.  Glad to help.

Here you go
- Go to Google.com
- search "Lauri Markkenan stats"
- in the top three to 5 results (probably top 1) from basketballreference.com
- then scroll down until you see the states I mentioned.

Repeat the same process, except search "Kristapps Porzingis stats"

I seriously don't understand the snark when then numbers are clearly there, but if you are going to start out acting all overdramatic (unless you are just trying to troll for fun, which I get, if things are slow), then I'm kind of stopping there and letting you go find a silo where people only agree with you.

Maybe Lauri is your hero and it really offended you that I didn't just automatically say he's Basketball Jesus or something, but I'm moving on.

Maybe I misread the numbers and if so please forgive me, but I don't think I did.

Carry on.

No I just asked a legit question to provide the actual numbers, you are referring to instead of just going full propaganda and just repeating the same old stuff, that all people do here.

I have done it. I literally provided you with the basketball reference stats in the post you just quoted. You just typed out a full page of blah, blah, blah, when it would have taken less time to actual produce the numbers (if they exist) or even do a whole YT video of Lauri Markkanen defensive lapses.

Is Dirk soft?
Is Dirk unathletic?
Is Dirk a play-off choker?
Is Dirk a bad defender?
Is Dirk a bad leader?
Is Dirk a bad rebounder?

ALL absolutely false. But everything that has been said about Dirk until 2011 and some is still being said about Dirk to this day. It was all BS, but that did not stop the media from repeating it over and over until it became fact.

Even the evidence like many of the advanced stats are suspect.

If I believe DRPM for example, then Julius Randle was the 3rd best defensive player in the league this year. Last year he was not even in the top 250.

So did Randle suddenly make the leap of the century or is Thibs simply the greatest defensive coach the NBA has ever seen?

Also interesting in that regard.

In 2019/2020 Reggie Bullock had the same DRPM as JJ Barea (#271 in the league). In 2020/2021 he was 7th in the whole league. So let´s hope we get the 2021 version and not the Thibs-less 2020 version.