Better hope they find their version of Middleton soon internally because that's the only way. Playing the free agency game just won't work for the next 2-3 years. The appeal of playing with Luka doesn't matter to these older free agents now. It might pay off eventually once the players around Luka's age/generation are free but until then, this just isn't a team that is appealing to any Tier 1 (or even Tier 2) FAs
(08-05-2021, 12:45 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Better hope they find their version of Middleton soon internally because that's the only way. Playing the free agency game just won't work for the next 2-3 years. The appeal of playing with Luka doesn't matter to these older free agents now. It might pay off eventually once the players around Luka's age/generation are free but until then, this just isn't a team that is appealing to any Tier 1 (or even Tier 2) FAs
That´s why they should have gone after younger guys with more upside. That´s why they should go after someone like Marrkanen right now. He isn´t great right now but among the remaining guys he probably has the highest ceiling.
(08-05-2021, 12:01 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]But the fact they are the leftovers seems to suggest the entire slate of NBA management disagrees with your assessment of these four guys.
And if we’d waited for their price to get reasonable before inking Bullock and Brown, there’s little doubt those fellas would be gone.
Listen, I’m disappointed too. That seems to be what this time of year is all about. The anti-Christmas for Mavs fans. But the flip side is this:
Kawhi might be asking for a 1+1. (Pay me for a year of rehab and THEN I’ll decide whether to stay or leave.)
Lowry’s deal might make Kemba’s Boston deal look good. (You remember Kemba’s deal. The one that got Danny Ainge fired.)
Collins might have been matched by Atlanta at any price. (Leaving Fish to write about getting kicked in the Collins.)
Dragic might end up here for free instead of costing assets. (Seriously, what is Toronto’s alternative, unless the Heat offered them some kind of alternative compensation should they be unable to flip him to Dallas by Friday.)
Which all reduces, in my mind, to the ultimate question: Will the Lakers or Heat steal Luka from us at some point down the road? The answer is probably. They get everybody else. But hopefully it will be after Luka is old and gray like Malone and Melo. That’s what I’m holding out hope for.
They are out there mostly because asking price was too high. The money has dried up. I think now most in that group are hoping for sign and trade or will take one year deals. I agree that Bullock is a good player, but Id rather have Oubre at that price point, id rather have Jackson. I think Markannen or Schroder would be amazing gets for a low price. Any of these players can give you 20 off the bench. Bullock is a Deshawn Stevenson type, great glue guy, great shooter but not elite.
So if this is the roster for now, here's how things changed:
OUT: JRich, Redick, Melli, Bey
IN: Bullock, Sterling, Moses
IMHO, the 3 guys they got are all clear upgrades from their previous counterparts. Bullock is the type of 3&D player JRich could never live up to, Sterling will actually play and drain 3's where Redick never did. And Moses has way more defense, rebounding, and general upside than Melli could muster (for all his meme-worthy greatness).
Positionally, literally nothing changed from last season. Guard for guard, big for big. So the roster is no more unbalanced than before. And as much as we all want one more ballhandler, the chances are still extremely high that Bey's spot will eventually go to Dragic.
I get that people are disappointed compared to what they hoped for. That's generally how free agency works for most teams, as there are only so many superstars to go around. But don't let that blind you to the good things that happened. Dallas did a pretty darned good job of upgrading the roster without grossly overpaying for flawed guys with bigger names, and they did it decisively on day-1 without chasing their tails for a week. Like it or not, that's a notable step forward from years past. And I think fans will be pleasantly surprised when they see the product on the floor.
(08-05-2021, 12:51 PM)haveitall Wrote: [ -> ]They are out there mostly because asking price was too high. The money has dried up. I think now most in that group are hoping for sign and trade or will take one year deals. I agree that Bullock is a good player, but Id rather have Oubre at that price point, id rather have Jackson. I think Markannen or Schroder would be amazing gets for a low price. Any of these players can give you 20 off the bench. Bullock is a Deshawn Stevenson type, great glue guy, great shooter but not elite.
The thing is, I'm really glad we didn't go after Lauri, Oubre, or Schroeder earlier. At $12-$15M per year or more, all three are no-gos. At the MLE or less? Yes, please. Jackson, I would have offered fairly big money early, and you still can't get him for less than $11 mil or more. There's your playmaker.
(08-05-2021, 12:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Only SnT was Dinwiddie recently and there was reported interest. Can't see how Dinwiddie is better than Dragic.
What an unbalanced roster. Dragic was the tipping point for me.
Easy to see what they want in Dinwiddie. Beal bait.
(08-05-2021, 12:53 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]So if this is the roster for now, here's how things changed:
OUT: JRich, Redick, Melli, Bey
IN: Bullock, Sterling, Moses
IMHO, the 3 guys they got are all clear upgrades from their previous counterparts. Bullock is the type of 3&D player JRich could never live up to, Sterling will actually play and drain 3's where Redick never did. And Moses has way more defense, rebounding, and general upside than Melli could muster (for all his meme-worthy greatness).
Positionally, literally nothing changed from last season. Guard for guard, big for big. So the roster is no more unbalanced than before. And as much as we all want one more ballhandler, the chances are still extremely high that Bey's spot will eventually go to Dragic.
I get that people are disappointed compared to what they hoped for. That's generally how free agency works for most teams, as there are only so many superstars to go around. But don't let that blind you to the good things that happened. Dallas did a pretty darned good job of upgrading the roster without grossly overpaying for flawed guys with bigger names, and they did it decisively on day-1 without chasing their tails for a week. Like it or not, that's a notable step forward from years past. And I think fans will be pleasantly surprised when they see the product on the floor.
The problem is that we were already criminally low on guys who could pass the ball and JRich for all his faults was third on the list. Without getting a secondary playmaker, Luka will be even more burdened than last year and our bench will continue to struggle. They have to get that addressed.
(08-05-2021, 12:53 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]So if this is the roster for now, here's how things changed:
OUT: JRich, Redick, Melli, Bey
IN: Bullock, Sterling, Moses
IMHO, the 3 guys they got are all clear upgrades from their previous counterparts. Bullock is the type of 3&D player JRich could never live up to, Sterling will actually play and drain 3's where Redick never did. And Moses has way more defense, rebounding, and general upside than Melli could muster (for all his meme-worthy greatness).
Positionally, literally nothing changed from last season. Guard for guard, big for big. So the roster is no more unbalanced than before. And as much as we all want one more ballhandler, the chances are still extremely high that Bey's spot will eventually go to Dragic.
I get that people are disappointed compared to what they hoped for. That's generally how free agency works for most teams, as there are only so many superstars to go around. But don't let that blind you to the good things that happened. Dallas did a pretty darned good job of upgrading the roster without grossly overpaying for flawed guys with bigger names, and they did it decisively on day-1 without chasing their tails for a week. Like it or not, that's a notable step forward from years past. And I think fans will be pleasantly surprised when they see the product on the floor.
Good points. At the very least even if nothing else changes they at least seemed to use a better process this year which is improvement.
(08-05-2021, 12:40 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]“later in the off-season”
Yeah this is no big deal. Its what I frankly expected. The Mavs want a star as much as possible.
Off the top of my head Beal, Lillard, Simmons, and Siakam are all unhappy (and there might be more). The Mavs may not be able to get in on any of these, but they shouldn't be hasty because some of these deals might create other opportunities for the Mavs.
If nothing has happened and training camp opens, I will be frustrated, but its a long off season.
(08-05-2021, 12:53 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]So if this is the roster for now, here's how things changed:
OUT: JRich, Redick, Melli, Bey
IN: Bullock, Sterling, Moses
IMHO, the 3 guys they got are all clear upgrades from their previous counterparts. Bullock is the type of 3&D player JRich could never live up to, Sterling will actually play and drain 3's where Redick never did. And Moses has way more defense, rebounding, and general upside than Melli could muster (for all his meme-worthy greatness).
Yep. As I have posted elsewhere, the Mavs addressed THE biggest issue and weakness: JRich. They upgraded him massively.
Next weak link? KP. Maybe they are looking....maybe they will try to make internal changes to address the weakness he was last year. But either way I support the patience. Get better one step at a time.
(08-05-2021, 12:59 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Easy to see what they want in Dinwiddie. Beal bait.
Terrible way to run a franchise.
(08-05-2021, 01:20 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah this is no big deal. Its what I frankly expected. The Mavs want a star as much as possible.
Off the top of my head Beal, Lillard, Simmons, and Siakam are all unhappy (and there might be more). The Mavs may not be able to get in on any of these, but they shouldn't be hasty because some of these deals might create other opportunities for the Mavs.
If nothing has happened and training camp opens, I will be frustrated, but its a long off season.
Mavs are chasing all these other stars because they're unhappy and striking out. Before you know it our own star might join that unhappy bunch.
(08-05-2021, 01:24 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. As I have posted elsewhere, the Mavs addressed THE biggest issue and weakness: JRich. They upgraded him massively.
The biggest weakness was a lack of a secondary playmaker. JRich was apart of that issue. They didn't solve that at all.
(08-05-2021, 01:20 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah this is no big deal. Its what I frankly expected. The Mavs want a star as much as possible.
Off the top of my head Beal, Lillard, Simmons, and Siakam are all unhappy (and there might be more). The Mavs may not be able to get in on any of these, but they shouldn't be hasty because some of these deals might create other opportunities for the Mavs.
If nothing has happened and training camp opens, I will be frustrated, but its a long off season.
But they have nothing to trade other than KP. If KP plays well then it would be nice to keep him and have a second third star. The only way to do that is to get a steal in free agency. If they signed Oubre or Markannen to MLE and these guys turned into 20ppg scorers then you can flip that player for Beal or Siakam with Brunson and other assets. Bullock is a nice player but he is not going to bring you a star in return.
(08-05-2021, 01:24 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. As I have posted elsewhere, the Mavs addressed THE biggest issue and weakness: JRich. They upgraded him massively.
Next weak link? KP. Maybe they are looking....maybe they will try to make internal changes to address the weakness he was last year. But either way I support the patience. Get better one step at a time.
JRich was not the weakest link, he just wasn't the player everyone here expected him to be which is the third star. Neither is Bullock, neither is Brown. Is Schroder, Jackson, Oubre, or Markannen a star? No but they are sure as hell have a better chance to become one than Bullock, or Brown.
(08-05-2021, 01:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Terrible way to run a franchise.
Well, they didn’t sign Dinwiddie, so I’d guess we can agree they aren’t running the franchise that way, yes? Or are you mad that they reportedly kicked the tires on a Dinwiddie deal? At a time when they plainly wanted Toronto to think they were exploring other options?
(08-05-2021, 01:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest weakness was a lack of a secondary playmaker. JRich was apart of that issue. They didn't solve that at all.
Disagree.
1) JR was the biggest weakness as a really poor defender and unhelpful when he had the ball. The team was SO BAD with him playing. When JR was playing (1790 mins) the Mavs were -0.2 (which would have ranked them as 18th in the league). When JR sat (1671 mins) the Mavs were +6.1 (which would have ranked them as 2nd in the whole league behind UTA). It is definitely not quite this simple, but fixing the JR issue could immediately vault the Mavs higher in the league.
2) KP was the second biggest weakness with his poor D and his poor chemistry with Luka. Mavs were +0.7 when he played, +4.1 when he didn't. But if his trade value is nothing, then I get waiting just to see if a new coach can make the difference in his headspace (which I see as his biggest issue).
(08-05-2021, 11:32 AM)haveitall Wrote: [ -> ]Its not that Sterling Brown and Bullock are bad signings its that they should not be the first players signed. Markkannen, Jackson, Oubre, Schroeder may not be perfect 3 and D guys but they are more talented and one of these guys should have been signed before going with players down the rotation.
I like Bullock better than Markkannen, Oubre and Schroeder because we have Luka, and 1) Markkannen's defense is so poor, 2) seems like literally no one in the whole NBA likes Schroder, and Oubre isn't Oubre.
Give me Bullock with Luka over any of those guys.
Think about it regarding lineups wit Markannen
Luka/THJ/Bullock/DFS/KP vs Luka/THJ/DFS/Markannen/KP <-- which is the better two-way lineup?
We continue to over value role players and boys in blue. We lack difference makers. We should 100% give up Kleber for Markennen for example. I like Maxi, great role player and great dude. But we need guys with the upside and potential to be true difference makers. Maxi’s production is replaceable. Same with DFS, Brunson and especially Powell.
People worried about fit with Markennen and KP. I look at as an opportunity to have someone else give you KP like production when he’s out of the lineup every other night. Thus making it easier to move KP for better complementary wings or bigs.
I am not the biggest Chad Ford fan (don't hate him either) but he was on one of the Mavs podcasts after they hired Nico and Kidd. One of the things he said that I disagreed with was he thought Nico would not make a ton of moves and would rather take his time and evaluate things and look to next year to make moves after evaluating everything.
Now, they went obviously hard after Lowry and moves next year will need to be done without cap room. Although it certainly appears they are taking a more cautious approach by not throwing large amounts of money around to new players.
I disagree with this strategy, but Ford looks like he was right. This was also the podcast where they shared audio from the 2020 draft and Ford was right on with the dysfunction in our front office on disagreement on picks. This was on that draft night and he was a year before the Cato article.
(08-05-2021, 12:17 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Fischer just said on Greenroom the Mavs are done. Like the 15 man roster they have. Dont expect anything big in the near future.
Man, maybe my patience has been misplaced, but I'm still holding out. I gotta believe that this is still posturing. I just can't believe that they're satisfied with 1) the impbalance of this roster or 2) the idea of giving up when there are unsigned folks and potential trades to be had
(08-05-2021, 01:45 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Ford looks like he was right
Yep, he definitely told fans to be prepared for Nico to first see what he had on the roster for himself before making big changes.