(07-19-2021, 01:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, Pels are desperate. Think there is going to be a lot of shuffle on their roster this year. I could see basically everyone except Zion gone. Trading Ingram might be one of the only ways forward for them.
Letting Ball walk (23) and chasing Lowery (35) seems incredibly short sided but maybe those grumblings about Zion already wanting to be traded are true.
(07-19-2021, 01:19 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Letting Ball walk (23) and chasing Lowery (35) seems incredibly short sided but maybe those grumblings about Zion already wanting to be traded are true.
I think the desperation is as high as ANY team in the league. The Pels will probably pursue change just for change's sake on some level.
(07-19-2021, 12:43 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/...67112?s=21
I don't see why Lowry would choose the Pelicans over any of his other supposed suitors.
Philly, Miami, LAC, LAL, heck even the Mavs are all better suited for him.
(07-19-2021, 01:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, Pels are desperate. Think there is going to be a lot of shuffle on their roster this year. I could see basically everyone except Zion gone. Trading Ingram might be one of the only ways forward for them.
If Ingram is available the Mavs should go all out
(07-19-2021, 01:23 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]If Ingram is available the Mavs should go all out
They'd want to use Ingram to land a star so that rules the Mavs out short of a three team deal.
(07-19-2021, 01:42 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]They'd want to use Ingram to land a star so that rules the Mavs out short of a three team deal.
Perhaps there's a 3 team trade that can be worked out between the Pelicans, Toronto, and the Mavs where the Mavs don't send out KP?
Pelicans get: Lowry+ Josh Richardson+ Kleber + Future 1st from the Mavs (2027?)
Mavs get: Ingram, Adams, Bledsoe
Toronto gets: Lonzo+Powell+ #10 from the Pels
Pelicans get their vet presence and win now guy from the Raptors. Lowry can still be considered a star. They also move off of BOTH their bad contracts and maintain 30 mil of cap space to revamp their roster. It only cost them a pick and their 2nd star that apparently doesn't fit with Zion anyways.
Toronto gets younger in their rebuild and nabs Lonzo in exchange for Lowry. They also add another lottery pick. They get to maintain some semblance of competitiveness with Lonzo+FVV backcourt to go with Siakam. And on top of it they get their own Canadian Powell to replace Aaron Baynes who hasn't worked out.
Mavs eat a crap ton of salary, but in exchange gets Ingram who should be the 4 we've been looking for. He's a young dynamic scorer and can work well off the dribble. Mavs also get 2 bench pieces in it as well.
It'd essentially hardcaps the Mavs, but I think this works well for all teams involved.
(07-19-2021, 04:42 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps there's a 3 team trade that can be worked out between the Pelicans, Toronto, and the Mavs where the Mavs don't send out KP?
Pelicans get: Lowry+ Josh Richardson+ Kleber + Future 1st from the Mavs (2027?)
Mavs get: Ingram, Adams, Bledsoe
Toronto gets: Lonzo+Powell+ #10 from the Pels
Pelicans get their vet presence and win now guy from the Raptors. Lowry can still be considered a star. They also move off of BOTH their bad contracts and maintain 30 mil of cap space to revamp their roster. It only cost them a pick and their 2nd star that apparently doesn't fit with Zion anyways.
Toronto gets younger in their rebuild and nabs Lonzo in exchange for Lowry. They also add another lottery pick. They get to maintain some semblance of competitiveness with Lonzo+FVV backcourt to go with Siakam. And on top of it they get their own Canadian Powell to replace Aaron Baynes who hasn't worked out.
Mavs eat a crap ton of salary, but in exchange gets Ingram who should be the 4 we've been looking for. He's a young dynamic scorer and can work well off the dribble. Mavs also get 2 bench pieces in it as well.
It'd essentially hardcaps the Mavs, but I think this works well for all teams involved.
I'm not sure I'd want to trade a FRP that far out. You could probably flip Brunson for a FRP (if Pels/Raps aren't interested either by adding a 4th team to the deal or a separate deal). I'd do that deal without much hesitation which makes me think it is too good to be true.
I wouldn't understand the Pels thinking in that scenario as I think retaining Lonzo and keeping Ingram and Adams would give them the better team. Maybe they think Zion and Ingram are redundant?
(07-19-2021, 04:50 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure I'd want to trade a FRP that far out. You could probably flip Brunson for a FRP (if Pels/Raps aren't interested either by adding a 4th team to the deal or a separate deal). I'd do that deal without much hesitation which makes me think it is too good to be true
I think Brunson is most likely gone from that trade too. Most likely to the Pels for extra compensation which could count as a FRP?
(07-19-2021, 04:50 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't understand the Pels thinking in that scenario as I think retaining Lonzo and keeping Ingram and Adams would give them the better team. Maybe they think Zion and Ingram are redundant?
The general theme I've seen from the Pelican forums I've read is that there are plenty of Zion rumblings of him wanting out already. Zion+Adams doesn't work because they both play around the rim. They're looking for stretch bigs to play next to Zion. Bledsoe is seen as dead money and they're thinking about stretch waiving him to get to max cap space (with Adams being traded).
Ingram is also seen as a bad fit next to Zion as multiple times Ingram would ignore Zion in the 4th. It was speculated that it was Van Gundy's design, hence the firing now, but it seems Ingram can be had for a moderate return.
Further, from the Lonzo angle, they don't want to pay Lonzo 20+ million. The general take is he's a good player but he isn't skilled enough to be paid that much. They desperately are looking for a vet presence and are eying Lowry hard (if the media reports are true).
This trade not only gives the Pels the vet presence they're looking for, but a stretch big for Zion that can play D, and a defensive SG that they need as well in Richardson. They also open up 30+ mil from their books and it lets them retool with whatever free agents they had their eye on (DeRozan maybe??).
I think the Pels do it in a heartbeat. Mavs do it because they form a somewhat Big 3 with Ingram/KP/Luka.
If Ingram is available I think you do whatever it takes to get him if you have the assets.
Secondary ball handler, good 3pt shooter, legit 2nd star/scorer.
If you somehow keep KP... That's a heck of a big 3 if KP isn't awful on defense anymore.
(07-19-2021, 06:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The general theme I've seen from the Pelican forums I've read is that there are plenty of Zion rumblings of him wanting out already. Zion+Adams doesn't work because they both play around the rim. They're looking for stretch bigs to play next to Zion. Bledsoe is seen as dead money and they're thinking about stretch waiving him to get to max cap space (with Adams being traded).
Ingram is also seen as a bad fit next to Zion as multiple times Ingram would ignore Zion in the 4th. It was speculated that it was Van Gundy's design, hence the firing now, but it seems Ingram can be had for a moderate return.
Further, from the Lonzo angle, they don't want to pay Lonzo 20+ million. The general take is he's a good player but he isn't skilled enough to be paid that much. They desperately are looking for a vet presence and are eying Lowry hard (if the media reports are true).
This trade not only gives the Pels the vet presence they're looking for, but a stretch big for Zion that can play D, and a defensive SG that they need as well in Richardson. They also open up 30+ mil from their books and it lets them retool with whatever free agents they had their eye on (DeRozan maybe??).
I think the Pels do it in a heartbeat. Mavs do it because they form a somewhat Big 3 with Ingram/KP/Luka.
A few things that are worth about nothing.
If I put my Pels GM hat on, I have some control Zion. And if he wants out after two years, I'm no leveraging the future of the franchise for a 1st or 2nd round exit. Lowry will not be in the league much longer. I'm just kicking the Zion unhappiness can down the road a very minor distance.
I like Lonzo a lot. I wanted him as a reclamation project when he was struggling in LA. He turned it around with the Pels but I mostly agree with the stance that paying him 20+ a year is probably a mistake.
I do like the DeRozan/Lowry reuniting angle though.
(07-19-2021, 06:42 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]If you somehow keep KP... That's a heck of a big 3 if KP isn't awful on defense anymore.
That's a big if. And speaking of ifs, if there is any truth to KP being unhappy/jealous of Luka, I don't see how Ingram improves that situation.
Carmelo made KP Robin. When Carmelo was gone, KP was Batman. He was traded to Dallas and became Robin again. If we get Ingram, KP is now Alfred.
I am still super high on Lonzo. People tend to forget that he is only 23. More than a year younger than Brunson. Younger than the often mentioned John Collins.
(07-19-2021, 09:11 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I am still super high on Lonzo. People tend to forget that he is only 23. More than a year younger than Brunson. Younger than the often mentioned John Collins.
Definitely IN on Lonzo....just never had a hint that either 1) the Mavs are interested or 2) he wants to come to DAL.
(07-19-2021, 09:12 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Definitely IN on Lonzo....just never had a hint that either 1) the Mavs are interested or 2) he wants to come to DAL.
Don´t think it will happen but then again in the past the Mavs rarely leaked their plans and the big signings/trades came out of nowhere.
(07-19-2021, 09:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Don´t think it will happen but then again in the past the Mavs rarely leaked their plans and the big signings/trades came out of nowhere.
I think ANYTHING is possible with Nico in place. It is exciting because certain things we knew the Mavs just didn't do are now possibilities.
(07-19-2021, 06:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I think Brunson is most likely gone from that trade too. Most likely to the Pels for extra compensation which could count as a FRP?
The general theme I've seen from the Pelican forums I've read is that there are plenty of Zion rumblings of him wanting out already. Zion+Adams doesn't work because they both play around the rim. They're looking for stretch bigs to play next to Zion. Bledsoe is seen as dead money and they're thinking about stretch waiving him to get to max cap space (with Adams being traded).
Ingram is also seen as a bad fit next to Zion as multiple times Ingram would ignore Zion in the 4th. It was speculated that it was Van Gundy's design, hence the firing now, but it seems Ingram can be had for a moderate return.
Further, from the Lonzo angle, they don't want to pay Lonzo 20+ million. The general take is he's a good player but he isn't skilled enough to be paid that much. They desperately are looking for a vet presence and are eying Lowry hard (if the media reports are true).
This trade not only gives the Pels the vet presence they're looking for, but a stretch big for Zion that can play D, and a defensive SG that they need as well in Richardson. They also open up 30+ mil from their books and it lets them retool with whatever free agents they had their eye on (DeRozan maybe??).
I think the Pels do it in a heartbeat. Mavs do it because they form a somewhat Big 3 with Ingram/KP/Luka.
I agree that Zion needs a reliable setup guy and the team could use some veteran leadership, so Lowry fits both those roles.
I knew Ingram was a good player, but his stats are excellent. I think the "somewhat" in the Big 3 scenario would be how well KP integrates, not whether Ingram contributes. Instead of 1-2-3 it would be more 1-2a-2b, depending on the matchups.
Adams isn't a game changer, but he brings some attitude that the Mavs could use and I think he'd work well under Kidd. Bledsoe is a former All Defensive 1st teamer, so improved D is another aspect that gets addressed.
This is probably a pipe dream scenario, but seems like DAL should improve with this talent infusion.
Norman Powell is at least better than Oubre and Dinwiddie....so there's that.
(07-20-2021, 02:14 PM)JamesConway Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1...62183?s=21
It is nice to finally see a player listing Mavs as his destination.
I like Norman Powell. But we have THJ, a player we know what he is, who apparently wants to stay with Mavs. Letting him go to pursue basically same thing in Powell, would be a huge insult imho. Not to mention Powell might be more expensive. Is there place to have both? I doubt
It would be nice to screw with Portland though
They might be forced to pay us for at least TE, if not SnT