MavsBoard

(07-21-2021, 01:43 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I've been anti-Dipo, but I'd be okay with this.

I think Mavs are way behind talent wise and the only way to bridge the gap is take some risk and nail players that have the talent but had underperformed and lowered their value. Dipo is one such example and I would consider it, at low price of course. I don't think Mavs can afford to overpay guys who had career seasons. Holmes is an example - I would be extremely affraid paying him 20 per which he is reportedly looking for. There is risk their performance drops.

(07-21-2021, 02:28 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think Mavs are way behind talent wise and the only way to bridge the gap is take some risk and nail players that have the talent but had underperformed and lowered their value. Dipo is one such example and I would consider it, at low price of course. I don't think Mavs can afford to overpay guys who had career seasons. Holmes is an example - I would be extremely affraid paying him 20 per which he is reportedly looking for. There is risk their performance drops.

It's a delicate balance for sure.  My issue with Dipo outside of a 1-year inexpensive contract is, even if he turn it around, do you want to offer him a long term contract after that?  He'd be 30 and you'd still have the injury concerns.  I just don't see the future in it.

Holmes at 20m is a tough sell for me too.  He'll be 28 but his past two seasons have had very similar production.

On the flip side, it is hard to grab really young, up-and-coming talent.

(07-21-2021, 01:29 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I personally think so. I think there is a 0% chance he is a legit NBA player again. 

But that is just my opinion and I am not a doctor, nor have I seen the details of his medicals.

I mean you may be 100% right. But he also could be a perfect fallen angel. If he does recover from his injury, he doesn't need to be the All-NBA guy he once was.  In Dallas he'd be a clear 3rd fiddle behind Luka and KP and that may be the perfect spot for him. His skillset of creating his own shot and elite perimeter defense is what we've been looking for with Wright and JRich.

Put it this way, would I rather have JRich or Dipo in the same role? And honestly I'd have to take Dipo even with the injury concerns. 

(07-21-2021, 01:36 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, because he eats our MLE and doesn't allow us to spend it on another player.

Well yes but there aren't THAT many MLE guys out there right now. A fully healthy Dipo on paper is exactly the kind of guy we'd want next to Luka. It's a long shot he'll ever be the same guy he was, but as long as he can average in the ballpark of 12/3/4 with some above average D that's a great signing imo.

If helping Excel out by taking on Dipo on a low risk contract helps us net Collins - I'm in on that move.

(07-21-2021, 02:50 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ]If helping Excel out by taking on Dipo on a low risk contract helps us net Collins - I'm in on that move.

You have my attention. I want JC THAT much.

(07-21-2021, 02:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]You have my attention. I want JC THAT much.

How much will Pop coaching JC sting for you?  At least you'll get to see him more often throughout the year.

(07-21-2021, 02:59 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]How much will Pop coaching JC sting for you?

It's a nightmare because I think Pop would turn him into an incredible star.

(07-21-2021, 02:38 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]It's a delicate balance for sure.  My issue with Dipo outside of a 1-year inexpensive contract is, even if he turn it around, do you want to offer him a long term contract after that?  He'd be 30 and you'd still have the injury concerns.  I just don't see the future in it.

Holmes at 20m is a tough sell for me too.  He'll be 28 but his past two seasons have had very similar production.

On the flip side, it is hard to grab really young, up-and-coming talent.

It´s not easy, but it´s also not that hard. There are a a few top notch franchises that are so good, that they run into an abundance of talent eventually that they cannot pay and accomodate all. I have been a fan of Monte Morris. He was stuck behind a wall of guards in Denver. The play-offs were his first real opportunity. He put up 14 PPG with almost six assists in the play-offs, 40%  3pt shooting. Nuggets already have him locked up for the next three years at $30M.

Then there are others that tank with so many picks, that they simply cannot develop everybody. Richaun Holmes was stuck in Philly behind Embiid, Saric, Noel and Okafor.

There is a chance Mo Bamba will be really good (though his injuries are a bit concerning), but he´s already stuck behind WCJ, Isaac, Okeke, whoever they draft at #6 and #10, plus maybe even Mo Wagner. There is a chance that with more minutes Mo Bamba peaks at 12/12 with 2 blocks. Bamba´s first three years in the league have been pretty similar to Tyson Chandler. 

Furkan Korkmaz is barely a 5th option offfensively on the Sixers, functioned well as the #1 option for Turkey in the Olympic qualifiers on a team that also featured Osman, Ilyasova and Sengun. That´s probably somebody ready for a bigger role without the need to break the bank. Funny enough, if you look at his stats in the first four years they are very similar to Norman Powell, before he made the leap from 9/2/2 40% 3pt shooting to 16/4/2.

I´m so much more interested in a THJ S&T package of Ross/Bamba than re-signing THJ himself.

Obviously not all of them work out, but you usually don´t have to. Cause usually that´s what teams do during their rebuilding stretches, when they have 2-3 years to waste with free shots on fallen angels/hidden gems. Of course not the Culture Club, who rather waste that time giving meaningful minutes to fringe veterans with no upside or future along the next generation.

(07-21-2021, 03:01 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]It's a nightmare because I think Pop would turn him into an incredible star.

I always wonder what qualfies as a star these days, cause he averaged 22/10 with 1.6 blocks last year. That´s pretty damn close to the numbers of LaMarcus Aldridge, when half the league chased him in free agency. And he´s 23 years old.

His shooting numbers are average to above average from practical everywhere on the floor and he´s already proven to be a decent to good defensive player.

What´s his star ceiling?

Cause I´m pretty good, if he just does 22/10 with 40% 3pt shooting and almost 2 BPG for the rest of his Mavs career.   

Sadly I also think the Hawks will realize this, pay him the max and just trade Gallinari in six months to cost correct their cap.

If they decide to actually let Collins go, it will be due to other reasons than financial. Clash/role dispute with Trae Young and future minutes for Hunter/Okungwu.

(07-21-2021, 02:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]You have my attention. I want JC THAT much.

I forgot  what was your proposed Collins trade again?

Kleber+Brunson right?

I'd be pretty content with a Collins, Dipo, Batum offseason. 

Luka
Dipo
DFS
Collins
KP 

is a pretty great lineup on paper.

(07-21-2021, 03:44 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]It´s not easy, but it´s also not that hard. There are a a few top notch franchises that are so good, that they run into an abundance of talent eventually that they cannot pay and accomodate all. I have been a fan of Monte Morris. He was stuck behind a wall of guards in Denver. The play-offs were his first real opportunity. He put up 14 PPG with almost six assists in the play-offs, 40%  3pt shooting. Nuggets already have him locked up for the next three years at $30M.

Then there are others that tank with so many picks, that they simply cannot develop everybody. Richaun Holmes was stuck in Philly behind Embiid, Saric, Noel and Okafor.

There is a chance Mo Bamba will be really good (though his injuries are a bit concerning), but he´s already stuck behind WCJ, Isaac, Okeke, whoever they draft at #6 and #10, plus maybe even Mo Wagner. There is a chance that with more minutes Mo Bamba peaks at 12/12 with 2 blocks. Bamba´s first three years in the league have been pretty similar to Tyson Chandler. 

Furkan Korkmaz is barely a 5th option offfensively on the Sixers, functioned well as the #1 option for Turkey in the Olympic qualifiers on a team that also featured Osman, Ilyasova and Sengun. That´s probably somebody ready for a bigger role without the need to break the bank. Funny enough, if you look at his stats in the first four years they are very similar to Norman Powell, before he made the leap from 9/2/2 40% 3pt shooting to 16/4/2.

I´m so much more interested in a THJ S&T package of Ross/Bamba than re-signing THJ himself.

Obviously not all of them work out, but you usually don´t have to. Cause usually that´s what teams do during their rebuilding stretches, when they have 2-3 years to waste with free shots on fallen angels/hidden gems. Of course not the Culture Club, who rather waste that time giving meaningful minutes to fringe veterans with no upside or future along the next generation.

Leonard and JC, who can be true difference makers, are my first choice. But, if that strikes out, and it probably will, I’d rather go this route than pay the likes of Dipo (who’s done now with two major injuries).  Build smart.

(07-21-2021, 03:56 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]Leonard and JC, who can be true difference makers, are my first choice. But, if that strikes out, and it probably will, I’d rather go this route than pay the likes of Dipo (who’s done now with two major injuries).  Build smart.

Does it even have to be either and or? You can do both strategies at the same time.


Kleber + Richardson + protected 1st (I think Schlenk will be greedy) for maxed John Collins.

THJ to Lakers
Ross + Bamba to Dallas
Kuzma + pick to Orlando  

Doncic/Brunson
Korkmaz/Ross
DFS/Green
Collins/Powell
Porzingis/Bamba

Overhauled the whole roster at roughly $115M. Still got the full MLE to throw at somebody like Korkmaz. He can look at the roster and see a huge hole at SG that he can make his position for the foreseeable future. Are we BAE eligible this year?

We got younger, we got better, we improved our asset base and we gained more financial flexibility.

(07-21-2021, 02:28 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think Mavs are way behind talent wise and the only way to bridge the gap is take some risk and nail players that have the talent but had underperformed and lowered their value. Dipo is one such example and I would consider it, at low price of course. I don't think Mavs can afford to overpay guys who had career seasons. Holmes is an example - I would be extremely affraid paying him 20 per which he is reportedly looking for. There is risk their performance drops.

You mean like KP  .  I feel like improving the talent is going to be more about taking what you can get.  There are 5 or 6 top level guys and we will probably take any one of those if we can.  There are another 5 or 6 guys in the second tier, and if you don't get a first tier guy, you are going to go after any of those you can get (unless the fit is terrible, like your keeping KP and don't think you can start Holmes next to him).  If you can't get any of those guys, then you have failed epically and maybe then you consider dumpster diving.

Personally, I'm not interested in paying the full MLE guys like Dipo or OPJ who have not a healthy/productive season in the last 3 years.  Those are guys I would be willing to take a flyer on for the room.

This team is behind talent wise, but you can make a big difference with 34 mil if you can get the guys to come.  Even if you have to drop down to the mid-tier level, a Powell/Batum offseason would a significant improvement to the team.  A KP/Batum/DFS/Luka/Powell starting lineup with a Maxi/Powell/room/Green/Brunson bench is a lot better than anything we have put out there before.  Its probably not contention level unless KP gets back to bubble level, but its heading in the right direction.  Then you use trades (including picks that you will start to have access to) and MLE to improve.

(07-21-2021, 02:50 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ]If helping Excel out by taking on Dipo on a low risk contract helps us net Collins - I'm in on that move.

Let's add to that us getting off of Powell's contract easy!

(07-21-2021, 02:50 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ]If helping Excel out by taking on Dipo on a low risk contract helps us net Collins - I'm in on that move.

I'm listening

(07-21-2021, 03:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I forgot  what was your proposed Collins trade again?

Kleber+Brunson right?

I'd be pretty content with a Collins, Dipo, Batum offseason. 

Luka
Dipo
DFS
Collins
KP 

is a pretty great lineup on paper.

Add in one of the rMLE level G's like Caruso/Korkmaz/McConnell to replace JB and that is a great bench to go along with the starters!

(07-21-2021, 03:55 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I always wonder what qualfies as a star these days, cause he averaged 22/10 with 1.6 blocks last year. That´s pretty damn close to the numbers of LaMarcus Aldridge, when half the league chased him in free agency. And he´s 23 years old.

His shooting numbers are average to above average from practical everywhere on the floor and he´s already proven to be a decent to good defensive player.

What´s his star ceiling?

Cause I´m pretty good, if he just does 22/10 with 40% 3pt shooting and almost 2 BPG for the rest of his Mavs career.   

Sadly I also think the Hawks will realize this, pay him the max and just trade Gallinari in six months to cost correct their cap.

If they decide to actually let Collins go, it will be due to other reasons than financial. Clash/role dispute with Trae Young and future minutes for Hunter/Okungwu.

He is a very good player, but he put up those number as a center, and his defense was poor from that spot.  He played much better defense as a 4 with Capella behind him, but his offensive numbers went down (18/7).  I don't think you get both the good defense and the big numbers unless you pair him with a floor spacing rim protecting center (last seasons KP and/or Maxi).

(07-21-2021, 03:55 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I always wonder what qualfies as a star these days, cause he averaged 22/10 with 1.6 blocks last year. That´s pretty damn close to the numbers of LaMarcus Aldridge, when half the league chased him in free agency. And he´s 23 years old.

His shooting numbers are average to above average from practical everywhere on the floor and he´s already proven to be a decent to good defensive player.

What´s his star ceiling?

Collins last two years:
22/10/1.6
18/7/1

KP last two years:
20/10/2
20/9/1

Just saying...there's a lot more to being a star.  (not meaning to say I like KP as much as JC)

Been saying for a while and will keep saying this until I hear any new rumor that would lead me away from this opinion: Collins is the number 1 target.

Mavs will offer him a lot of money, will do any kind of Schwartz favors required and send Maxi + stuff to Atlanta as compensation. The goal will be to get him with outgoing salary, likely involving at least 1 other team so that Mavs can retain THJ. 

MLE could be part of the Schwartz favors side of the deal where they give Dipo or another Schwartz client some money.

(07-21-2021, 04:28 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Collins last two years:
22/10/1.6
18/7/1

KP last two years:
20/10/2
20/9/1

Just saying...there's a lot more to being a star.

Therefore the question what defines a star. Beggars can´t be choosers. Ten years of mis-management have led us to this point and Collins would be an awesome get.

At least he doesn´t cost three first round picks and comes without these stickers: