(02-18-2021, 09:27 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]I agree it is very close. I am comfortable with Luka earning his starter spot here.
My hope was more of a legacy thing. No one will remember Luka barely beat out Lillard for the starting spot years from now, only that Luka was named an All Star starter for the second consecutive year.
I do have a problem with Blazer fans trying to tear down Luka to try and justify their emotions.
It's funny watching these Blazers fans/kids in general argue how Dame got robbed. When did it become normal for a 21 year old averaging close to a 30/10/10 in his 3rd year? Like hello??? Sure the record is wonky, but I don't think that should stop the best from being recognized. There were multiple years where Kobe was a starter on a bottom feeder Laker team.
Don't get me wrong Dame is 10000% an all-star and has a very real argument to be a starter, but all these Reddit blog bois disparaging Luka because he made it over him is hilarious and a little bit sad.
(02-19-2021, 12:21 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]There were multiple years where Kobe was a starter on a bottom feeder Laker team.
That's always been the "problem" with all star selection. It can be a popularity contest (often swung by international voting) or someone's past accomplishments. On the one hand, it's a fan even and fans she see who they want to see. On the other hand, it's used in the context of evaluating someone's career. Blazer fans have every right to be upset and express that displeasure.
I was going to wait and see with the Dirk like mid range fade, because he's brought it out in the past, but I never thought it was ever something that was a genuine part of his repertoire, he did it rarely, and he missed a lot of them.
But like his left handed finishing in his second season, that mid range fade looks like the new consistent addition to his game in his third season. He's hitting 50% between 10-16 feet this season after hitting just under 38% in his first two seasons. That is helping offset the fact he isn't quite finishing at the rim at the ridiculous Giannis like levels he was last season (a more human 67.5% within 3 feet, as opposed to the god tier 75.2% last season).
After a rough shooting start to the season, he's really got his shooting back on track for year on year improvement from both 3pt range and FT, but that mid range fade, if it stays as consistent as it has been and he uses it as regularly, IMO adds a huge extra dimension to his game, and I feel like it will also help prevent some of the small injuries he was rapidly accumulating last season, because whenever he chose to drive last year, unless he got off a pass, he pretty much had to find a way to manoeuvre all the way to the rim to get off a layup or floater. Being able to rely on a mid range jumper alleviates that need and both alleviates extra stress on his ankles having to do those extra euro steps and hesitation moves with a body right on him, and gives the defender an extra thing to think about on his drives. Obviously I hope he can sustain the 3pt and FT shooting, although we have seen him have wild swings in both those categories, but seeing how that mid range fade continues to develop to me is the most exciting development in his game, as I didn't expect it this season tbh.
(02-16-2021, 11:52 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Luka has improved his defense but the problems remain the same. Effort and consistency. Good example: He probably had the best defensive game of his career against Hayward and the Hornets. Lockdown on ball D combined with good help defense. 2Stl/4Blks. I expected the same energy in the next game against the Bucks but he wasn´t even trying to contest shots or stay in front of Holiday.
To be fair if you watch some of the better two way defenders in the league, they pretty much all have games like that during the regular season. Only really defensive specialists, or players who don't have to expend significant energy offensively show up with high end motor on defense game in game out during the regular season. The difference is the superstar two way guys can make up for it with elite athleticism, experience and/or intelligent positioning and footwork.
Luka will never have the athleticism to fall back on, what he needs to be able to do is continue to improve his intelligence defensively in terms of positioning and footwork. I do not expect him to give the same energy on defense every game during the regular season, and in fact I don't want that if it's going to be a detriment to his game offensively. He doesn't need to be hyper energetic, just more positionally and specially aware so he's more consistently in the right places. That's something that takes time and experience, even guys that come into the league as good defenders from their rookie season don't typically do so because of elite positioning and footwork, they are usually more reliant on elite athletic ability and take time to develop the latter.
(02-21-2021, 02:36 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]Luka will never have the athleticism to fall back on, what he needs to be able to do is continue to improve his intelligence defensively in terms of positioning and footwork. I do not expect him to give the same energy on defense every game during the regular season, and in fact I don't want that if it's going to be a detriment to his game offensively. He doesn't need to be hyper energetic, just more positionally and specially aware so he's more consistently in the right places. That's something that takes time and experience, even guys that come into the league as good defenders from their rookie season don't typically do so because of elite positioning and footwork, they are usually more reliant on elite athletic ability and take time to develop the latter.
Totally agree. As long as Luka is carrying the team offensively, he’ll never be a star on defense. Only absolute freaks like Lebron can do that. And, imo, Luka has shown enough improvement on the defensive end already to make me feel like he’s focused on being a two-way contributor. I believe he will be when it matters.
Luka has better advanced stats than Lillard. His BPM is 1.5 pts higher. 2 is basically the difference between a MVP season and "just" an all nba season. Its funny, people argue that Jokic is the MVP, when the Nuggets kinda have a poor season, without major injury or Covid related problems. Imagine the Nuggets with a couple of Covid cases on top. The Nuggets doesn't even have a much better season than the Mavs, if you consider circumstances around the team.
Doncic: 29.1 / 8.6 / 9.4 / 1.0 / 0.7 -- .586 TS% / 26.8 PER / 7.8 BPM / 2.4 VORP
Curry: 30.0 / 5.3 / 6.0 / 1.2 / 0.1 -- .661 TS% / 25.6 PER / 7.6 BPM / 2.4 VORP
Lillard: 29.8 / 4.4 / 7.7 / 1.1 / 0.3 -- .625 TS% / 27.1 PER / 6.3 BPM / 2.1 VORP
- +10.0 is an all-time season (think peak Jordan or LeBron)
- +8.0 is an MVP season (think peak Dirk or peak Shaq)
- +6.0 is an all-NBA season
- +4.0 is in all-star consideration
- +2.0 is a good starter
- +0.0 is a decent starter or solid 6th man
- -2.0 is a bench player (this is also defined as "replacement level")
- Below -2.0 are many end-of-bench players
Luka literally has the same advanced stats as Curry, why people ain't discussing Curry <-> Lillard? Curry doesn't have a better season than Luka either. Warrriors have the same amount of losses right now. Would the media discussing it, if the Mavs would be the 8th seed right now?
(02-22-2021, 01:00 AM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]Luka has better advanced stats than Lillard. His BPM is 1.5 pts higher. 2 is basically the difference between a MVP season and "just" an all nba season. Its funny, people argue that Jokic is the MVP, when the Nuggets kinda have a poor season, without major injury or Covid related problems. Imagine the Nuggets with a couple of Covid cases on top. The Nuggets doesn't even have a much better season than the Mavs, if you consider circumstances around the team.
Doncic: 29.1 / 8.6 / 9.4 / 1.0 / 0.7 -- .586 TS% / 26.8 PER / 7.8 BPM / 2.4 VORP
Curry: 30.0 / 5.3 / 6.0 / 1.2 / 0.1 -- .661 TS% / 25.6 PER / 7.6 BPM / 2.4 VORP
Lillard: 29.8 / 4.4 / 7.7 / 1.1 / 0.3 -- .625 TS% / 27.1 PER / 6.3 BPM / 2.1 VORP
- +10.0 is an all-time season (think peak Jordan or LeBron)
- +8.0 is an MVP season (think peak Dirk or peak Shaq)
- +6.0 is an all-NBA season
- +4.0 is in all-star consideration
- +2.0 is a good starter
- +0.0 is a decent starter or solid 6th man
- -2.0 is a bench player (this is also defined as "replacement level")
- Below -2.0 are many end-of-bench players
Luka literally has the same advanced stats as Curry, why people ain't discussing Curry <-> Lillard? Curry doesn't have a better season than Luka either. Warrriors have the same amount of losses right now. Would the media discussing it, if the Mavs would be the 8th seed right now?
I agree plus I also don't consider Doncic to be a guard but that's another discussion.
‘Carbon Copy’
By Marc Stein
Cedric Maxwell played for six seasons and won two N.B.A. championships alongside Larry Bird in Boston. He was named the most valuable player of the finals in 1981. So you listen intently when someone like Maxwell refers to Bird in assessing the Dallas Mavericks’ Luka Doncic.
“You can quote me: This is Larry Bird reincarnated,” Maxwell said.
Maxwell told me this last August, after watching Doncic beat the Los Angeles Clippers in the playoffs with an icy 3-pointer at the overtime buzzer that has been replayed over and over, and he said it again as he prepared for a radio broadcast of the Celtics’ game on Tuesday at Dallas.
“This would be Larry Bird of the 2020s,” Maxwell said, “exactly how he would play now.”
Maxwell’s latter statement has been my go-to linkage between these two whenever the subject comes up. Bird was a true forward in a different era, joined in the Boston frontcourt by the larger Kevin McHale and Robert Parish. While Doncic, at 6-foot-7 and 230 pounds, is built similarly to Bird (6-9, 220 pounds), he has been a triple-double-stacking point guard almost from the minute he set foot in the Mavericks’ practice facility in September 2018.
As a child of the 1970s and ’80s who romanticizes those days above all others in N.B.A. history, I like to imagine what it would be like to watch Bird playing Doncic-style — with the ball in his hands so much more to probe and create, and the freedom to shoot 10 3-pointers per game. In his 13 seasons with the Celtics, Bird averaged at least three 3-point attempts per game just three times.
The problem: As frequently as white players are measured against Bird, comparing on-the-rise prospects and even emerging greats like Doncic to one of the game’s icons is invariably tricky. Making such comparisons is one of the most instinctual aspects of basketball fandom and, at the same time, that reflex can put too much focus on the immeasurable. For all the similarities you can see in their ability to pass, rebound, shoot from distance and control the game, Doncic and Bird are limited edition, one-of-one originals.
White N.B.A. players are often compared to Larry Bird, but Luka Doncic does share some of Bird’s do-it-all talent. Yet that’s what made the chats with Maxwell so entertaining. I am stubbornly measured. He’s no holds barred. Maxwell leaned into the notion that Doncic “is a carbon copy of Larry.” After an association with the N.B.A. that has spanned more than 40 years, he maintains that “comparison is good” — daunting (and downright damaging) as it has been for too many failed Next Jordans to list.
“Luka is better than Larry was at that age,” Maxwell said of Doncic, who turns 22 on Sunday. “The biggest thing is that there’s an arrogance, a cockiness, that Luka has that is directly out of the bloodstream of Larry Bird.”
Doncic turned pro at 16 with the Spanish power Real Madrid, where he developed a maturity beyond his years. Bird was 22 when he scored 14 points in his N.B.A. debut.
Another key contrast: Doncic didn’t land with a franchise as close to title contention as Bird and, in Year 3, finds himself in his most challenging stretch since he reached the N.B.A.
After the buzzer-beater that toppled the Clippers and so much more from Doncic in last summer’s bubble at Walt Disney World, he began the season among the favorites for Most Valuable Player Award honors, with Dallas similarly expected to push for a top-four seed in the West. At 14-15 entering Tuesday’s play, Doncic’s Mavericks would probably be branded the league’s most disappointing team if not for the Celtics, who are just 15-15 after blowing a 24-point lead on Sunday in New Orleans.
Doncic remains as brilliant as ever, averaging 28.8 points, 8.6 rebounds and 9.3 assists per game, but numerous issues recently dragged the Mavericks into a 3-10 funk. They made improvement on defense an off-season priority but have tumbled to 25th in the league in defensive efficiency. They have slumped to 25th in 3-point shooting. There have been numerous coronavirus-related lineup disruptions: Four key rotation players not named Doncic (Kristaps Porzingis, Josh Richardson, Dorian Finney-Smith and Maxi Kleber) have missed at least nine games each. Porzingis’s mobility after off-season knee surgery has been slow to reload, especially defensively, and the team misses the chemistry influence of the veteran J.J. Barea, who now plays in Spain.
At the Mavericks’ low point, they had lost 12 consecutive one-possession games before Doncic and Golden State’s Stephen Curry staged an irresistible duel on Feb. 6 from which Dallas escaped with a 134-132 victory. Doncic said afterward that it was the first time in a long time that he played with sufficient joy and said he needed “to have more fun playing the game to be who I was before.” The win launched a promising 4-1 surge before the Mavericks were forced into a week off by a horrendous winter storm that ravaged Texas for days.
Doncic’s body language and complaints to referees have been talking points all season. He acknowledged in a recent interview with ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith that he has to improve his deportment with officials, saying that losing “makes you do things you don’t want to do.” Doncic said last week that Portland’s Damian Lillard, whose team has exceeded expectations despite key injuries, deserved a starting spot in the All-Star Game “more than me.”
The onus is on Dallas management to put the right pieces around Doncic. McHale and Parish arrived in Bird’s second season, giving the Celtics a Hall of Fame threesome that provided the backbone for teams that won three championships and made five trips to the N.B.A. finals in seven seasons. The Mavericks’ quest is moving slower.
Yet even if they get it right, that will demand more from their centerpiece.
“Larry had another gear that I’m waiting to see Luka come up with, and that’s the leadership role,” Maxwell said.
Doncic still has room to grow as an on-court leader for a Dallas team still finding its way. He has been criticized at times for his body language. Doncic, of course, is not even the first Maverick from Europe to be relentlessly compared to Bird. Dirk Nowitzki, who changed the power forward position forever with his ability to face the basket, shoot the 3-pointer with ease and draw big men out of the paint, was described for two decades as a 7-foot Bird.
“I was always super humbled and honored to be compared to Larry Legend, but I never tried to think about it that much,” Nowitzki said Monday. “I never tried to live up to his career and put pressure on myself that way. I tried to focus more on paving my own way and finding what works for me.”
Doncic is equally modest when reporters bring up Bird or other well-known players he has passed on his way to tie for No. 12 in career triple-doubles (32). But this is basketball. Resistance is futile because comparisons are what we do — constantly.
The season was one game old when Maxwell got swept up in Luka mania. After a cheeky Doncic assist in the paint to Finney-Smith that flummoxed Phoenix’s Deandre Ayton and the rest of the Suns’ defense, Maxwell tweeted: “Hello Larry Joe Bird. Wow. I received one or two of those passes in my day.”
Any such commentary on Tuesday night will come from afar. Because of travel restrictions for N.B.A. broadcasters during the coronavirus pandemic, Maxwell and Sean Grande will be calling the game from a studio in Boston rather than in American Airlines Center in Dallas.
“When you go by one name, that tells you who you are in this league,” Maxwell said. “All you’ve got to say is Luka.”