(01-11-2020, 09:36 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 04:21 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 04:07 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status...0740833281
I know it's way too early to start worrying about Luka long term, but MBT needs to be really careful with team building if they want Luka for life.
I agree.
He is extremely competitive. No critics to Dirk, or anyone else for that matter, but I dont see others at the moment as competitive as Luka. You dont see 20 year old that tear up jerseys if not winning. He wants to win and he will win. Not in long term, not even soon, but right now.
He will not allow the rest of the team to be assembled from bench players all his career. On this team right now there is nobody besides KP that is considered a good starter, besides Luka as well. THJ, DFS, Curry, Powell, they would be bench players for other average or good teams.
Thats all a great thing that Luka is so competitive. Its ok he didnt had the best game like almost all other games. Its a game where rest of the team was also absent, the defense completely. Where the hell was the bench???? Not only this game but many last games, the bench has been horrible. Luka got us on a streak in 3rd i beleive it was, and got us within 10 points this game, then he got out and bench came in. Next thing you know and we are down 20.
Luka cant do it alone. And Jordan also could not. He had Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman. GSW, curry, Klay, Durant etc.
Nobody besides Luka could take on the game at the moment and carry the team. Luka needs to do it throughout the game every single game. Nobody can do that consisently, there will be a "bad" game once in a while from every superstar.
KP can do it for some streches, which eases it for the team, and anchors the defense.
Besides KP, we need one or two more players to make a consistent team that will rarely or never have bad games. Its not Lukas fault. Jordan also needed that. Its a team sport.
Ultimate competitors don´t walk back on defense and argue with the refs while their matchup scores easy layups on the other end. It´s okay that he has an off game. The way he behaved himself on the court was not acceptable. He can rip his jersey. He can be angry at himself but he cannot yell at teammates (Wright in the 1st quarter) and he cannot stop playing just because he did not get the call or even worse after he made an mistake and missed a shot or turned the ball over.
Lukas 1st half last night reminded me a lot of Rondos last game in a Mavs jersey. Good reminder that even though he is incredible advanced as a player he is still only 20 years old. Maturity might come with age (as it did for Dirk) but I would like to see a shorter leach for Luka.
(01-11-2020, 10:29 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]He can be angry at himself but he cannot yell at teammates (Wright in the 1st quarter)
Wait, have you seen superstars in the NBA? They all yell at their teammates at some point. Dirk did it a lot.
(01-11-2020, 10:29 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]he cannot stop playing just because he did not get the call or even worse after he made an mistake and missed a shot or turned the ball over.
Fully agree, superstars yell at the refs as they're running up the court. They talk to them when they get a break in play.
(01-11-2020, 10:55 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Wait, have you seen superstars in the NBA? They all yell at their teammates at some point. Dirk did it a lot.
Dirk rarely if ever showed any frustration towards his teammates on the court but we obviously know that he was more vocal in the locker room.
Last night I saw Luka turn the ball over and yell at Wright. I think he wanted Wright to cut and he didn´t do it but that wasn´t related to Luka fumbling away the ball afterwards.
He needs to find a way to deal with his frustration and stay focused. The Lakers did not need to do anything in the 1st half. Luka did it all to himself.
Jared looks like he just finished eating a chocolate Easter bunny the size of Luka.
(01-11-2020, 10:29 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 09:36 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 04:21 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 04:07 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status...0740833281
I know it's way too early to start worrying about Luka long term, but MBT needs to be really careful with team building if they want Luka for life.
I agree.
He is extremely competitive. No critics to Dirk, or anyone else for that matter, but I dont see others at the moment as competitive as Luka. You dont see 20 year old that tear up jerseys if not winning. He wants to win and he will win. Not in long term, not even soon, but right now.
He will not allow the rest of the team to be assembled from bench players all his career. On this team right now there is nobody besides KP that is considered a good starter, besides Luka as well. THJ, DFS, Curry, Powell, they would be bench players for other average or good teams.
Thats all a great thing that Luka is so competitive. Its ok he didnt had the best game like almost all other games. Its a game where rest of the team was also absent, the defense completely. Where the hell was the bench???? Not only this game but many last games, the bench has been horrible. Luka got us on a streak in 3rd i beleive it was, and got us within 10 points this game, then he got out and bench came in. Next thing you know and we are down 20.
Luka cant do it alone. And Jordan also could not. He had Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman. GSW, curry, Klay, Durant etc.
Nobody besides Luka could take on the game at the moment and carry the team. Luka needs to do it throughout the game every single game. Nobody can do that consisently, there will be a "bad" game once in a while from every superstar.
KP can do it for some streches, which eases it for the team, and anchors the defense.
Besides KP, we need one or two more players to make a consistent team that will rarely or never have bad games. Its not Lukas fault. Jordan also needed that. Its a team sport.
Ultimate competitors don´t walk back on defense and argue with the refs while their matchup scores easy layups on the other end. It´s okay that he has an off game. The way he behaved himself on the court was not acceptable. He can rip his jersey. He can be angry at himself but he cannot yell at teammates (Wright in the 1st quarter) and he cannot stop playing just because he did not get the call or even worse after he made an mistake and missed a shot or turned the ball over.
Lukas 1st half last night reminded me a lot of Rondos last game in a Mavs jersey. Good reminder that even though he is incredible advanced as a player he is still only 20 years old. Maturity might come with age (as it did for Dirk) but I would like to see a shorter leach for Luka.
I agree fully on some of those part. However, this walking back on defense and letting them score easy is not too often. I could rewatch some games and count that, the number is not high. Most of the time he plays well defense and much better staying in front of defender than before. Grabbing defensive rebounds is also defense. He is better than Powell and perhaps one of our best defensive rebounders. The problem with the few defensive meltdown plays where he just does not make the effort and lets the opponent come by, is that those plays are super easy for fans to remember and super easy to recognise. So it does happen 2 times a game or so, some games more some games not at all. But it is harder to recognise when he defends really well. The last games he was rather on a streak i would say playing quiet well man to man defense. The few occasions where he melts down on defense are indeed embarassing but i think they all have to do with him being tired. He is just not in shape especially with so high usage rate on the offense. You can see him often stopping grasping for air at times... On defense if you are not fit every single second, just one step wrong if you are tired and you are out of it. To me what strikes out is that he IS capable of playing great defense. That you cant say of other players, such as trae young that never will be able to do. So it is a matter of fitness and perhaps he should play bit more off the ball on the offense in order to stay fresh all game long and be able to excel on defense as well, so he has no plays off, not a single one per game.
Thus, i really do not agree that it is because of competitiveness. Luka is by far the most competitive player i have seen and it is not even close. Everywhere he has been he has find a way to win. You will see that once his fitmess is excellent and when he gets used in the right way on offense, not being asked to carry it up the court every time, but instead receiving it in the post and playing off the ball, he will be able to put more energy on the defensive side as well.
The complaining to refs. That will go away, thats not a worry at all. Thats how everyone does in europe. Thats a cultural thing and that will quickly change, but is something that cant immediately be go away. I agree this part does not work in NBA and even hurts. In europe if you dont complain to refs you loose the game, its that simple, its a huge disadvantage not to do it. In basketball, football everything, its the culture that way and what you grow up with. Especially Luka being fouled so much as he is, its rather an extreme example, and even if he wasnt from europe and not used to complain to refs, even an american player would find this extreme, im pretty sure. Like with everything else, Luka always adapts to the winning ways, I am pretty sure he will scale down on the complaining. It simply does not work in the NBA. To me its obvious he will become a great defender as well with time. That someone else dribbles the ball up the court other than Luka and then handles the PG duties to him in the final third, this to me solves all the issues. You cant double Luka then that easy because when he is far enough up in the opponents half, it is way more dangerous to double team there. He also stays more fresh, which makes him better offensively and defensively. And it increases the effectiveness of where he is with the ball. At this very moment, he is asked to spend most of his fitness on dribbling the ball up the court, getting doubled there often and pressured, and rarely takes some off the ball plays. And he is asked to carry the offense completely. No wonder he takes a few plays off on defense, that has nothing to do with lack of being competitive, rather that he should be used differently.
I just want to say that all of the posters from Cow's post above on down had good points to make in this Luka debate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Slovenija/c...urce=share&utm_medium=web2x
This officiating really needs to stop ,this is really extreme. I can understand why he complains over continuous treatment like this. However he also needs and will understand that it does not help in the NBA, and even hurts to complain. He always seems to adapt to what works. Ironically this is easier for us fans to see, rather than for the player. Especially with a cultural background of complaining in the Balkans that you inherit. I am pretty sure next season he will not do it or much less. Maybe then the calls will also start to be fair. Lets hope. This is really not good.
Let this night be a sign to those falsely claiming that Luka is being "coddled" and "enabled" to develop bad habits and isn't learning anything. He only took three three-pointers and passed up MANY opportunities in order to keep probing with the dribble drive.
(01-11-2020, 10:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Let this night be a sign to those falsely claiming that Luka is being "coddled" and "enabled" to develop bad habits and isn't learning anything. He only took three three-pointers and passed up MANY opportunities in order to keep probing with the dribble drive.
Rewatch the 1st quarter and you will see him turn the ball over 3 times. 2 times he didn´t even try to get back on defense.
(01-11-2020, 10:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Rewatch the 1st quarter and you will see him turn the ball over 3 times. 2 times he didn´t even try to get back on defense.
And?
I never claimed he didn't have lots of learning and growth to still go. But I read last night lots of hyperbole about him not learning anything or making any progress which is just flat out wrong and completely unfounded.
He is learning. He is trying. He is freaking 20 and emotionally immature.
P. A. T. I. E. N. C. E.
(01-11-2020, 10:54 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 10:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Rewatch the 1st quarter and you will see him turn the ball over 3 times. 2 times he didn´t even try to get back on defense.
And?
I never claimed he didn't have lots of learning and growth to still go. But I read last night lots of hyperbole about him not learning anything or making any progress which is just flat out wrong and completely unfounded.
He is learning. He is trying. He is freaking 20 and emotionally immature.
P. A. T. I. E. N. C. E.
Of course he is young but if people put him in th MVP conversation they have to hold him to the same standard that applies for LeBron, Giannis or Harden.
I agree that some people are taking it to far and the takes about him not improving at all are wrong.
He is clearly not his usual self right now and started todays game just as bad as he did yesterdays. It was good to see him hustle in the second half. He tends to take himself out of the game but was able to shake it off in the 4th quarter.
I can live with his mistakes (turnovers, bad shot selection) but it really annoys me when he stops playing after a missed call, brick or turnover.
(01-11-2020, 11:03 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I can live with his mistakes (turnovers, bad shot selection) but it really annoys me when he stops playing after a missed call, brick or turnover.
I 100% agree.
His emotional immaturity is extremely aggravating to me and he has made the refs his enemies IMO (though they suck too). But emotional maturity takes time. It cannot be forced.
Skip also said Manu was better than Dirk. He's just made that Cuban broke one off in him on his previous show at ESPN.
Skip doesn't have real opinions, he manufactures his statements for the sole purpose of his career advancement. To be upset with something Skip says is to allow yourself to be played with by a manipulator.
He opposes the biggest names on purpose. He's a coattail rider. He's a mosquito that catches a ride on real humans and sucks their blood.
Does Skip really think that Troy Aikman is gay? Why did he actually become LeBron's self labeled nemesis? Skip pretends to "not see it" with Luka for the same reason he wrote that Aikman was gay and pretended to doubt LeBron.
The guy sells snake oil. He's a carpet bagger. He's a preacher who takes money from old ladies. He's not a journalist. And it's impossible to know what he actually thinks. The moment in a conversation that I realize someone is feeding me something they don't actually think, I'm out. Tell me why I would ever care about one word spoken or typed by a fraud like Skip.
(01-13-2020, 12:44 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Skip doesn't have real opinions, he manufactures his statements for the sole purpose of his career advancement. To be upset with something Skip says is to allow yourself to be played with by a manipulator.
He opposes the biggest names on purpose. He's a coattail rider. He's a mosquito that catches a ride on real humans and sucks their blood.
Does Skip really think that Troy Aikman is gay? Why did he actually become LeBron's self labeled nemesis? Skip pretends to "not see it" with Luka for the same reason he wrote that Aikman was gay and pretended to doubt LeBron.
The guy sells snake oil. He's a carpet bagger. He's a preacher who takes money from old ladies. He's not a journalist. And it's impossible to know what he actually thinks. The moment in a conversation that I realize someone is feeding me something they don't actually think, I'm out. Tell me why I would ever care about one word spoken or typed by a fraud like Skip.
Fully agree. I feel the same with SAS.
(01-11-2020, 11:03 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 10:54 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2020, 10:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Rewatch the 1st quarter and you will see him turn the ball over 3 times. 2 times he didn´t even try to get back on defense.
And?
I never claimed he didn't have lots of learning and growth to still go. But I read last night lots of hyperbole about him not learning anything or making any progress which is just flat out wrong and completely unfounded.
He is learning. He is trying. He is freaking 20 and emotionally immature.
P. A. T. I. E. N. C. E.
Of course he is young but if people put him in th MVP conversation they have to hold him to the same standard that applies for LeBron, Giannis or Harden.
I agree that some people are taking it to far and the takes about him not improving at all are wrong.
He is clearly not his usual self right now and started todays game just as bad as he did yesterdays. It was good to see him hustle in the second half. He tends to take himself out of the game but was able to shake it off in the 4th quarter.
I can live with his mistakes (turnovers, bad shot selection) but it really annoys me when he stops playing after a missed call, brick or turnover.
A) Do you say that LeBron, Giannis or Harden never lag on defense while arguing a non-call?
B) If he's in the MVP conversation, he should get the same respect as the other guys. Sometimes I feel like the refs want to make the young guys "pay their dues" before getting the calls they deserve. I felt that way about Dirk early in his career as well. I don't think he get's the call against SA in the playoff game in 2006 without having 7 years of experience and ref respect.
Like many of our jobs/careers, there are times when it is not fun, but a grind instead that you just have to endure. Luka has performed extremely well against the highest level of competition, enough that teams are having to double and triple team him, but it wears on him.
I think, once everyone is back and healthy again, they will find that grove from earlier this season and have everyone buzzing about what trouble they will be in the playoffs. I just hope none of the MBT knee jerks into a bad trade before the deadline.
