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I'm glad you all are still talking about this issue. To me it is not about what Kidd did 20 years ago or that Nico was Koby's Nike PR guy when his thing happened. It is all about Cuban going on ESPN and trying to cry/lie his way out of the mess I think he let happen in 2018. And in this past season things are still happening - Ronzone was quietly let go months after the fact that he was accused of sexual misconduct with a women in a hotel room.

I made the statement I thought Cynthia would not let Mark heir Kidd. Then after the fact - I said that I thought Cynthia should resign. Now I here she is going to be apart of the press conference on 7/15. Why is the PC three weeks after the hires - probably as stated, in hope that this all blows over. But now I fear that Cuban's pay checks matter more then the issue. And that she is going to have her Hilary moment and stand with her men. And the message will be that if you are good at your job you should be aloud to have a second chance.

But is Kidd good at his job? Was Ronzone good at his job? Why the difference between the 2 people just a few months apart.

(06-29-2021, 07:00 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ]I'm glad you all are still talking about this issue. To me it is not about what Kidd did 20 years ago or that Nico was Koby's Nike PR guy when his thing happened. It is all about Cuban going on ESPN and trying to cry/lie his way out of the mess I think he let happen in 2018. And in this past season things are still happening - Ronzone was quietly let go months after the fact that he was accused of sexual misconduct with a women in a hotel room.

Agree, it's just a terrible look, to many people, to sweep this under the rug and act like it's not even an issue that deserves any consideration. Arguably, makes the protestations of sensitivity to the issue look like a travesty.

I made the statement I thought Cynthia would not let Mark heir Kidd. Then after the fact - I said that I thought Cynthia should resign. Now I here she is going to be apart of the press conference on 7/15. Why is the PC three weeks after the hires - probably as stated, in hope that this all blows over. But now I fear that Cuban's pay checks matter more then the issue. And that she is going to have her Hilary moment and stand with her men. And the message will be that if you are good at your job you should be aloud to have a second chance.

Ideally, they would say, if they can, that Kidd's record in the last three years has been sterling, that he is wrapped in new leaves, generally why they believe that, and that they gave the issue due consideration. Not saying that will happen, by any means.

But is Kidd good at his job? His HC record wouldn't indicate that. I think the fair answer is that we don't know yet. Was Ronzone good at his job? Why the difference between the 2 people just a few months apart. The only difference that is apparent to me is that Ronzone is accused of something that is alleged to have happened recently. If Kidd gets credibly accused again of recent behavior, God forbid, I don't know what they'll do. Hopefully, that situation will never arise.

Why the delay in a press conference until 7/15? Are Kidd and Nico on there way to Luka's games for the Olympics?

The DMN interviewed Cynt about this matter.

When Cynt became aware that Kidd was the frontrunner, she realized she would need to vet his history. She consulted with two domestic violence experts, who advised her on questions to ask and what to watch for.

She had two "long, intense conversations" with Kidd, frankly discussing the issues. Says that Kidd fully understood why the scrutiny was necessary, and was cooperative. She asked him to address the matter publicly at the press conference, and he agreed to do so. She does not know what he will say.

She mentioned that Kidd voluntarily continued counseling after his required anger management classes were up, and that Kidd has said that he recognized that it was God's will that he change his ways.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/maveri...se-charge/

(06-29-2021, 07:41 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]The DMN interviewed Cynt about this matter.

When Cynt became aware that Kidd was the frontrunner, she realized she would need to vet his history. She consulted with two domestic violence experts, who advised her on questions to ask and what to watch for.

She had two "long, intense conversations" with Kidd, frankly discussing the issues. Says that Kidd fully understood why the scrutiny was necessary, and was cooperative. She asked him to address the matter publicly at the press conference, and he agreed to do so. She does not know what he will say.

She mentioned that Kidd voluntarily continued counseling after his required anger management classes were up, and that Kidd has said that he recognized that it was God's will that he change his ways.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/maveri...se-charge/

Tell you what:

Maybe this is legit.

Maybe the cynical side of me, the part that wonders if this is just "Cynt the shield" earning her money by helping grease the wheels here, is correct.

Either way, it's WAY better already than what Portland did today, and I think that's a good sign for the organization.

I trust if she vetted Kidd being a victim herself...

(06-29-2021, 07:50 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]I trust if she vetted Kidd being a victim herself...

And that's what matters.

People who need reassurance will get it.

People with an axe to grind (no matter what) won't have a leg to stand on. Here's an African American female saying she investigated and rubber stamped the hire.

The fact that they are going to address it at the press conference is huge. Whether this was always planned or it's a reaction to the Portland stuff from today, it AT LEAST shows that they're paying attention and care about how they look.

She signed off on the hiring after talking to him. I respect the hell out of her as a leader. She's impartial to the basketball side things. She doesn't have any connection to Kidd before now.

Marshall hiring is one of Cuban's best decisions ever...

Is this pick on Luka week? Windhorst, Perkins and DMN writing/saying negative Luka stuff. Right or wrong the timing of stories lately seems agenda driven and sources sure would be interesting.

(06-29-2021, 07:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Tell you what:

Maybe this is legit.

Maybe the cynical side of me, the part that wonders if this is just "Cynt the shield" earning her money by helping grease the wheels here, is correct.

Either way, it's WAY better already than what Portland did today, and I think that's a good sign for the organization.

Yes, I agree with all that.

The fact that I posted the article by no means indicates that I am presenting it as gospel.

I can buy Cynt's position that she sincerely tried to do a good job vetting. I am sure she also understood that Cubes really wanted Kidd and that he would be most pleased if she found herself in a position to help him out with the PR aspects.

At least they are acknowledging that this is an issue that merits addressing, rather than telling journalists/fans that they can suck eggs if they don't like it. And detailing the process that they went through in considering the issue. And, apparently, are going to get Kidd to say the right things at the press conference. Agree with you that that is way better than Portland's choice not to address the issue.

(06-29-2021, 08:09 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that I posted the article by no means indicates that I am presenting it as gospel.

Didn't think it did, my dude!

(06-29-2021, 07:41 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]The DMN interviewed Cynt about this matter.

When Cynt became aware that Kidd was the frontrunner, she realized she would need to vet his history. She consulted with two domestic violence experts, who advised her on questions to ask and what to watch for.

She had two "long, intense conversations" with Kidd, frankly discussing the issues. Says that Kidd fully understood why the scrutiny was necessary, and was cooperative. She asked him to address the matter publicly at the press conference, and he agreed to do so. She does not know what he will say.

She mentioned that Kidd voluntarily continued counseling after his required anger management classes were up, and that Kidd has said that he recognized that it was God's will that he change his ways.

Reading this, if true, is all I really need to be 1000000% all in on Kidd. Anyone can make mistakes, even grave ones, but owning up and changing your ways is what really sets people apart.

(06-29-2021, 07:57 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Is this pick on Luka week? Windhorst, Perkins and DMN writing/saying negative Luka stuff. Right or wrong the timing of stories lately seems agenda driven and sources sure would be interesting.

There almost assuredly are no sources. I think the agenda is simpler than you think -- clicks. And sadly the DMN is not above it. Note that they simply repeated the accusations of two ESPN personalities and didn't even have the conviction to list a reporter name on the article. It's really no better than the random twitter accounts that share rumors from other sites while only adding a punchy headline. The easy solution is to stop paying attention to talking heads who peddle in gossip and innuendo or the aggregators who spread that stuff for clicks.

I stopped long ago confusing ESPN and Fox Sports TV personalities as serious people. It's all performative, with every incentive aligned towards generating controversy for profit. The less you watch the happier you'll be. Try it!

(06-29-2021, 11:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. People are acting as if the Mavs organization is a single entity that should be forever condemned for the sexual harassment scandal 2 years ago.

They say because of that history Kidd should automatically be disqualified from the Mavs HC position. I remember locked on Mavs podcast saying something to the like of "Kidd might have grown or changed, but the Mavs shouldn't have been the first team to give him a 2nd chance because the Mavs aren't qualified to make that choice", a statement strikingly similar to Cato's above.

Uhhh, I think it is just deeper than that.
Let me say first, there are 2 parts of my response:
A-Why I understand those criticism toward Kidd hiring B-What I really think of the situation.

- Mavs didn't deal with just sexual harassments, it was the CEO of the organization iirc, he made it toxic and it seemed really difficult to believe Cuban had no idea what is happening, if anything it was bad look as owner.
It was also a domestic abuse case, Cuban knew about it TWICE and he kept the guy, iirc after the 2nd time he forced him in anger management program and prevented him from being with another female alone during the job which begs the question why this wasn't made in 1st time. Only after it was reported to the public he was fired.
This was reported in 2018, but the cases was long there since 2011 at least.

The silver lining? Even in the original article, it was said the sporting department wasn't only innocent, but always treated the ladies with class act.

The next year, in 2019, we found out that KP is involved in rape accusation by a Nigerian college girl living in his building, and the Mavs knew about the situation prior to the trade.

In 2020, we found out that Tony Ronzone, director of player personnel, is accused of sexual harassments that was related to a working trip.
Mavs say they have done their due diligence and low key defended him. Then months later we now know they fired him after the public shit storm was over. Basically confirming the incident.

And in 2021, we decide to hire a coach with domestic violence in his CV, making headline again.

This seems like a pattern for the media, and in this age and era I think it is more than understandable that media will be condemning the organization. Too many fire and smokes for them to give the owner the benefit of the doubt. The owner who hired all this people and acted like he didn't knew. He is still here btw.

-Now, what do I think about it?
The scandel reported in 2018 is just ugly, but after that nothing is there to see. KP case seems like an extortion ( we will never know)
Ronzone was fired, and the case was him inviting a lady after working hours to his room and she willingly went there , because she thought they will talk basketball. Anyway I am glad that he isn't here considering that at best he was a cheater.
Kidd incident was ages ago, seems like a different man.
But this could be inviting trouble, as there is always some ladies who might take advantage of situation and make false claim (or Kidd, or someone else, decide it is good time to do something shitty) and we are in media again, bringing all this history back.
That said, I am more worried about Kidd history as coach, than his history as husband.

TLDR:
I don't agree with Cato, but I fully understand what he, and others, coming from

(06-29-2021, 07:57 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Is this pick on Luka week? Windhorst, Perkins and DMN writing/saying negative Luka stuff. Right or wrong the timing of stories lately seems agenda driven and sources sure would be interesting.

DMN as dallas morning news? Seems like their article is just quoting Perk and Wind.
But honestly, Luka is a super star now, it is normal that it will be the time for some criticism and picking on him for any shortcoming.
It was bound to happen. Happened for Lebron and KD, happened for MJ and all greats before him.
Media feeds on criticism more than celebrating greatness

(06-30-2021, 06:54 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Uhhh, I think it is just deeper than that.
Let me say first, there are 2 parts of my response:
A-Why I understand those criticism toward Kidd hiring B-What I really think of the situation.

- Mavs didn't deal with just sexual harassments, it was the CEO of the organization iirc, he made it toxic and it seemed really difficult to believe Cuban had no idea what is happening, if anything it was bad look as owner.
It was also a domestic abuse case, Cuban knew about it TWICE and he kept the guy, iirc after the 2nd time he forced him in anger management program and prevented him from being with another female alone during the job which begs the question why this wasn't made in 1st time. Only after it was reported to the public he was fired.
This was reported in 2018, but the cases was long there since 2011 at least.

The silver lining? Even in the original article, it was said the sporting department wasn't only innocent, but always treated the ladies with class act.

The next year, in 2019, we found out that KP is involved in rape accusation by a Nigerian college girl living in his building, and the Mavs knew about the situation prior to the trade.

In 2020, we found out that Tony Ronzone, director of player personnel, is accused of sexual harassments that was related to a working trip.
Mavs say they have done their due diligence and low key defended him. Then months later we now know they fired him after the public shit storm was over. Basically confirming the incident.

And in 2021, we decide to hire a coach with domestic violence in his CV, making headline again.

This seems like a pattern for the media, and in this age and era I think it is more than understandable that media will be condemning the organization. Too many fire and smokes for them to give the owner the benefit of the doubt. The owner who hired all this people and acted like he didn't knew. He is still here btw.

-Now, what do I think about it?
The scandel reported in 2018 is just ugly, but after that nothing is there to see. KP case seems like an extortion ( we will never know)
Ronzone was fired, and the case was him inviting a lady after working hours to his room and she willingly went there , because she thought they will talk basketball. Anyway I am glad that he isn't here considering that at best he was a cheater.
Kidd incident was ages ago, seems like a different man.
But this could be inviting trouble, as there is always some ladies who might take advantage of situation and make false claim (or Kidd, or someone else, decide it is good time to do something shitty) and we are in media again, bringing all this history back.
That said, I am more worried about Kidd history as coach, than his history as husband.

TLDR:
I don't agree with Cato, but I fully understand what he, and others, coming from

Then media will dig up this posted below (again?).

As an outsider I thought Mavs are a well runned machine with enthusiastic owner. Now it seems Mavs are a dysfunctional unit where enthusiasm (and luck?) lead to a one time success in 2011 accompanied by a bunch of failures, with history repeating in 2018 with Luka draft followed by a bunch of failures. Results seem as random luck and not a result of a clear long term strategic planning. Trust was lost and once broken it is extremely difficult to build back. It takes maximum effort and none of the moves seems to be done in a way to build this trust Mavs are a well runned machine. My problem is that moves so far this summer don't give any assurance to an outside observer things will be better. On the contrary.

Mavs fuelled all the sexual "crime" stuff by hiring Kidd. Sure people change and Kidd might be a serious person, but practical result seen to everyone is that the basketball world is discussing Mavs problems in this area. Is this making Mavs a more attractive destination helping to attract top FA? Look at all the heat Lillard took in Portland because of Billups. Don't tell me a top star player (and his agent) will not think about that...

The second problem that broke out was dysfunctionality of the FO. Again I don't see anything Mavs improved in this area. No clear statement on Bob. No clear statement on roles of people. It just seems Cuban replaced two of his advisors while all the dysfunctionality stayed as it was. As in Mavs are proud to be dysfunctional, different. Even without all the relationship problems Mavs didn't show excellence in any of the fields, neither draft, cap wizardry, free agency or inovative thinking. Compare that to Toronto, Miami, Denver.

Mavs went all in on player recruiting. Great. It is just that all good players removed themselves from FA last summer. Sure I may be wrong and Mavs moves are absolutely brilliant, but it will take a long time to convince me.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2018/03/06/in...-happened/

(06-30-2021, 08:45 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Then media will dig up this posted below (again?).

As an outsider I thought Mavs are a well runned machine with enthusiastic owner. Now it seems Mavs are a dysfunctional unit where enthusiasm (and luck?) lead to a one time success in 2011 accompanied by a bunch of failures, with history repeating in 2018 with Luka draft followed by a bunch of failures. Results seem as random luck and not a result of a clear long term strategic planning. Trust was lost and once broken it is extremely difficult to build back. It takes maximum effort and none of the moves seems to be done in a way to build this trust Mavs are a well runned machine. My problem is that moves so far this summer don't give any assurance to an outside observer things will be better. On the contrary.

Mavs fuelled all the sexual "crime" stuff by hiring Kidd. Sure people change and Kidd might be a serious person, but practical result seen to everyone is that the basketball world is discussing Mavs problems in this area. Is this making Mavs a more attractive destination helping to attract top FA? Look at all the heat Lillard took in Portland because of Billups. Don't tell me a top star player (and his agent) will not think about that...

The second problem that broke out was dysfunctionality of the FO. Again I don't see anything Mavs improved in this area. No clear statement on Bob. No clear statement on roles of people. It just seems Cuban replaced two of his advisors while all the dysfunctionality stayed as it was. As in Mavs are proud to be dysfunctional, different. Even without all the relationship problems Mavs didn't show excellence in any of the fields, neither draft, cap wizardry, free agency or inovative thinking. Compare that to Toronto, Miami, Denver.

Mavs went all in on player recruiting. Great. It is just that all good players removed themselves from FA last summer. Sure I may be wrong and Mavs moves are absolutely brilliant, but it will take a long time to convince me.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2018/03/06/in...-happened/

Nice thoughts. I was happy they went outside and hired a GM and coach. We will see if they work out. But I agree with your thoughts. Therefore, I will not be praising any of their moves until I see how they work out. My confidence in Mark right now is at a all time low. There is a lot of work to be done before I give my trust back again.

Running a team and competing against all the other teams is hard. We don't get the full story either on what is going on behind the scenes. But I just wanted things to be different. As you mention the secrecy about some of the things have been disappointing. Maybe it is no big deal, but I want a 180' from what we have seen the last several years. Maybe they are happening behind the scenes, but as I said earlier I will need to see the proof.

(06-29-2021, 07:53 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And that's what matters.

People who need reassurance will get it.

People with an axe to grind (no matter what) won't have a leg to stand on. Here's an African American female saying she investigated and rubber stamped the hire.

The fact that they are going to address it at the press conference is huge. Whether this was always planned or it's a reaction to the Portland stuff from today, it AT LEAST shows that they're paying attention and care about how they look.

Look, we've all got stuff we did 20 years ago that, in our evolved present, isn't something we are proud of. I thought I was a sensitive guy back then, but would probably be ostracized for some of my behavior in today's judgmental society. (Although there was one guy who got away with publicly commenting about "grab 'em by the *****".)

Domestic abuse is particularly heinous since it is often a power imbalance that allows it to happen and is difficult to repair. There are a lot of "but's" to that statement but I think it stands OK alone.

That said, we can't let our bad choices define us and I perceive Kidd as working on better choices in his private life and relationships.

I don't have as much insight into this professional ethics, although the BKN stay seemed to turn skanky for a one-year coach. As for pushing the envelope, maybe he'll be our Belichek and success will buy him a load of slack from the fans.

Lets talk basketball.

There are no winners in this conversation.

1) Its stupid to crucify Kidd 20 years later...but even more ridiculous to keep him in Purgatory when no one knows what was going on behind closed doors between two people living with each other. Maybe she was evil and wouldnt leave. That is a very very frustrating situation to deal with. Now...in Kidds case...he should have had enough money to go get an apartment. Still unfair on her part if the place was in his name and she wouldnt leave. Especially since law says you cant just kick someone to the curb thats been living at a residence(at least thats my understanding of how law use to be in mid 2000's). Bottom line is...we dont know what was going on between the two.

2) Kidd is crucified...even 20 years later...but Governments lie, steal, cheat and murder(I.E. Get physical with each other...Even when one Government is WAY stronger than another like Man vs Women in a physical fight) each other...and I see people being hard core Government supporters. You cant have it both ways. Youre not allowed to think differently with a group than as if you were an individual. If something is wrong...its wrong. With a group or without.

This whole conversation is an incredible waste of time...and one that doesnt make sense when people are allowed to flip flop on their position on things and one where we dont know all the facts.

Talk more basketball.

chaparral

mavsluvr

chaparral

mavsluvr

KillerLeft

ClutchDirk

KillerLeft

cjeter24

ClutchDirk

Hypermav

mavsluvr

KillerLeft

SleepingHero

Tyler

khaled1987

khaled1987

omahen

Chicagojk

michaeltex

dynamicalVoid