MavsBoard

(06-17-2021, 09:49 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]So you are so convinced in this plan you are willing to pay 2 FRP to dump KP if that is what it costs? And roll with Luka-Lowry-DFS-Kleber-Holmes? (let's keep Collins out of it). You are so sure this is a contender? I am not, not at all.

Didn't say that about the FRPs. I am sure there is some team out there who would be willing to take on KP for cap space without them. And leaving out what we could also obtain by trading other players skews the argument, so I'm not going there.

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(06-17-2021, 09:54 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]a) What makes you can just call 1-800-DIFFERENCE-MAKER and order a couple of them out of a catalog just because you have the cap space for them?     This sounds like 2021's version of Plan Power to me.  

b)  Everyone will be "overpaid" in free agency, because there is more demand for talent than supply available. 

And yes, you need guys who score baskets.   Everyone going on and one about THJ's defense ... Well Ben Simmons and Thybulle made 1st and 2nd team All Defensive NBA, and they're net liabilities deep in the playoffs because guys like Trae Young and Lou Williams can score bucket on them in the final 3 minutes and they can't return the favor.

You speak as if THJ can create his own shot. He's a jump shooter with minor drive-to-the-basket abilities. That isn't worth $20 mil per in any basketball league.

(06-17-2021, 12:52 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't say that about the FRPs. I am sure there is some team out there who would be willing to take on KP for cap space without them. And leaving out what we could also obtain by trading other players skews the argument, so I'm not going there.

Ya, that is the trap I was not willing to spring.

(06-17-2021, 09:56 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Don´t think his post mentioned both names. Overall I don´t think any move the Mavs could potentially make this offseason will be enough to turn them into legit contenders (healthy Lakers, Bucks, Nets, Clippers, Suns, Jazz). Unless Luka takes another step and really reaches prime MJ/LBJ level. One summer isn´t enough to fix the mistakes of the past three offseasons. Already pity the next GM if that is what Cuban expects him to do.

I'm not saying anything about "any one move." I suggested four. 

To say that an offseason like that couldn't make the Mavs a contender underestimates Luka, tbqh.

(06-17-2021, 10:07 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]All you good folks keep throwing out this "10 years" thing. "The results have been subpar for 10 years." Seems like that was a major component of the Cato article. But I have a little push back on that. Lumping the past 10 years into one block is a bit sloppy. Post championship was abysmal. Plan powder was an abomination of the highest order. Since Luka the team has been on an upward trajectory. It's not obvious to me that the past three years have been subpar. The team and Luka seem to be progressing along a learning curve. 

KP has been subpar, and they missed on their search for a "next to Luka" guy two years in a row. Nonetheless they've been on an upward trajectory that fits the maturation of a young superstar. 

But there's this: They got past up by the Suns and Hawks. And the Mavs drafted the better player than the Suns and Hawks. So that hurts. 

And then here's the crux of the matter in my mind: The 2021/2022 season is the reckoning. The development of Luka says that they should be a top four seed and have some playoff success next season. They should be doing what the Hawks and Suns have managed to do this year. If they can't do that then their upward trajectory leveled off way too soon.

It bears noting how badly the last two offseasons were botched - Hindenberg disasters, tbqh - and the team still had an upward trajectory.

Had they gotten '19 right, they likely wouldn't have had to do many moves in '20, given what we've seen in spite of the bad offseasons, to have made this team a contender in these very playoffs. 

That should make a potential GM salivate - as long as Cuban is willing to butt out. If I'm Ujiri or a similarly huge name that's not even on our radar, that's my condition beyond any financial consideration.

Why is everyone in love with Masai Ujiri?

(06-17-2021, 10:20 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Internal development lead to more success. Players like THJ, Maxi, DFS, Brunson and obviously most important Luka getting better. Can certainly question the role of the front office in the post Luka draft era. Only two guys that were added after the Knicks trade made the playoff rotation. One lost his starting spot in the regular season and probably won´t be back. The other is a 3rd string big turned desperation starter.
No "external" improvement of the roster in the last two years. Basically at the same starting point but with less assets.

...and still improving on the basis of how good our franchise guy is.

(06-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everyone in love with Masai Ujiri?

 Welcome back!

(06-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everyone in love with Masai Ujiri?

Welcome back, Mak!! Glad to see you here.

Ujiri built the Raps championship team. He's the poop.

(06-17-2021, 12:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I am curious what this creativity would be?  I'm not sure we have the assets to dump Powell and I would not be interested in "dumping" Maxi just to sign THJ.  I would rather keep Maxi and Sign McDermott.  Maybe we could dump Burke (what a terrible contract that turned out to be). 

It is maximum first round pick to dump Powell. Perhaps two second rounders. It is only 22 mil left. Philly dumped 80 mi of Horford for expiring Green, one FRP and one second rounder.

Burke contract is not that bad as it is just a little bigger than vet min. He is a useful end of bench guy you can put in for some instant scoring here and there. He did have a couple of great moments this season.

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(06-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everyone in love with Masai Ujiri?

I think he is extremely respected name that would make Mavs look serious.

(06-17-2021, 01:01 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]Why is everyone in love with Masai Ujiri?

https://vlp.to/FWCVD0GS
He's a really good GM

(06-17-2021, 01:24 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not anti-Masai, he’s made some solid moves and I’m sure Dallas could do much worse than signing him, I just feel like 1 relatively no-brainer trade for Kawahi might be leading too many folks to see him as some sort of clear-cut savior. 

Don't forget his work in Denver too.

Trades:

• Traded Carmelo that netted them Gallo, Wilson Chandler and Raymond Felton and a 1st that turned into Jamal Murray.
  
• Traded Nene for Javale McGee
  
• Was apart of that massive Dwight Howard trade where he netted Denver Andre Iguodala for Afflalo, Al Harrington and a 1st. 
  

Draft History with the Nuggets:
2011: Kenneth Faried
2012: Evan Fournier

He then went to Toronto in 2013.

(06-17-2021, 01:24 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not anti-Masai, he’s made some solid moves and I’m sure Dallas could do much worse than signing him, I just feel like 1 relatively no-brainer trade for Kawahi might be leading too many folks to see him as some sort of clear-cut savior. 

(06-17-2021, 12:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying anything about "any one move." I suggested four. 

I challenged you because you suggested a scenario which consists of 4 four difficult moves and you make it sound as it is something totally easy. Sure it is great if a FO is able to pull a scenario like that, but it would be a trully fantastic offseason. I tend to have lower expectations. So I would like to discuss what is a back up plan if one of those moves fails (for example no Collins). Because if it does, your plan looks way different end the end result questionable. That is also why I asked Itsgotime what is his backup plan if THJ rejects the 13 mil and walks. I don't understand why this is seen as a trap question. 

I doubt it is easy to dump KP for nothing once others know you need the cap space. I am quite certain others would know and you would pay for it. So - are you willing to pay the price if your assumption of dumping KP for nothing is wrong? Or does this change your plan? Then you have to convince 2 good FA, but I guess this one is not that difficult, if you are not that picky and willing to overpay. Last move you suggested was SnT of Kleber and JRich for Collins, which I have a really hard time seeing why Atlanta would do it. If it is only Kleber and FRP, than I get it. But JRich? So what do you do if Atlanta rejects?

(06-17-2021, 10:07 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]All you good folks keep throwing out this "10 years" thing. "The results have been subpar for 10 years." Seems like that was a major component of the Cato article. But I have a little push back on that. Lumping the past 10 years into one block is a bit sloppy. Post championship was abysmal. Plan powder was an abomination of the highest order. Since Luka the team has been on an upward trajectory. It's not obvious to me that the past three years have been subpar. The team and Luka seem to be progressing along a learning curve. 

KP has been subpar, and they missed on their search for a "next to Luka" guy two years in a row. Nonetheless they've been on an upward trajectory that fits the maturation of a young superstar. 

But there's this: They got past up by the Suns and Hawks. And the Mavs drafted the better player than the Suns and Hawks. So that hurts. 

And then here's the crux of the matter in my mind: The 2021/2022 season is the reckoning. The development of Luka says that they should be a top four seed and have some playoff success next season. They should be doing what the Hawks and Suns have managed to do this year. If they can't do that then their upward trajectory leveled off way too soon.

This right here, Bravo

(06-17-2021, 01:35 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]This right here, Bravo

Disagree.  Those years leading up to Doncic left our cupboards pretty bare.  Gambling on KP made you exhaust a lot of future assets and if that doesn't work out, and it hasn't so far, it will make maneuvering really difficult until the KP debt is paid and his contract is off the books.  It's hard to fault the MBT from going after KP as a fan, but I think a smarter run organization would have passed on that trade given the cost, shape of the roster outside of Doncic and knowing KP's medicals and that you'd have to give him a max contract.  We'd have been better off being bad around Doncic for a few years, drafting well and then going after the cherry on top piece (CP3, Conley, Holiday, etc.).  We took a shortcut and it has only put us father behind.

And even if you throw out the KP gamble, we haven't operated well since we drafted Luka/Jalen.  Seth was probably our best move and we threw that great contract away for a 1 year rental and Tyler Bey.

(06-17-2021, 01:24 PM)Mak Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not anti-Masai, he’s made some solid moves and I’m sure Dallas could do much worse than signing him, I just feel like 1 relatively no-brainer trade for Kawahi might be leading too many folks to see him as some sort of clear-cut savior. 

For me it is mostly about his track record when it comes to young players, late picks and undrafted guys.

Jalen Harris -59th pick
Fred VanVleet - undrafted
Norman Powell - 46th pick
OG Anunoby - 23th pick
Pascal Siakam - 27th pick
Delon Wright -20th pick
Jacob Poeltl -9th pick

Would be a solid playoff team in the ECF.

(06-17-2021, 09:25 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Yep.   Technically the Hawks "overpaid" for Gallo.   They "overpaid" for Bodgon.    They "overpaid" for Rondo (and then flipped him for another asset).  They'll probably "overpay" for Collins when they give him a max.    And ultimately who cares?  The goal is to win basketball games by having more points than your opponent when the final buzzer sounds, not to have the most efficient production/salary ratio for 15 guys on the roster. 

Tell it to the guy whose money this is, the guy who hasn't paid the tax in a decade. You don't have to convince anyone here.

(06-17-2021, 01:45 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]For me it is mostly about his track record when it comes to young players, late picks and undrafted guys.

Jalen Harris -59th pick
Fred VanVleet - undrafted
Norman Powell - 46th pick
OG Anunoby - 23th pick
Pascal Siakam - 27th pick
Delon Wright -20th pick
Jacob Poeltl -9th pick

Would be a solid playoff team in the ECF.

Also, maybe it's all just empty name recognition, but enpty name recognition means a lot when so much of free agent acquisition comes down to salesmanship.

(06-17-2021, 01:45 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]For me it is mostly about his track record when it comes to young players, late picks and undrafted guys.

Jalen Harris -59th pick
Fred VanVleet - undrafted
Norman Powell - 46th pick
OG Anunoby - 23th pick
Pascal Siakam - 27th pick
Delon Wright -20th pick
Jacob Poeltl -9th pick

Would be a solid playoff team in the ECF.

His second round point guard looks like a future player too.  Boucher is also an interesting name.    Didn't he even get a first round pick for Barnani?

Not sure if he was the guy who traded for Lowry. 


https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/...rs-finals/

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(06-17-2021, 01:59 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]His second round point guard looks like a future player too.  Boucher is also an interesting name.    Didn't he even get a first round pick for Barnani?

Not sure if he was the guy who traded for Lowry. 

from the article:
 So in June of 2015 Ujiri made a deal with the Bucks, sending Vasquez to Milwaukee in exchange for Norman Powell and a draft pick that would became OG Anunoby.


https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/...rs-finals/

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I doubt Masai winds up here.   I assume he wants to stay in Toronto and if they have lottery luck in a week, he will probably very likely stay.   Although if there is any chance he would leave, he is my first call.