(06-10-2021, 03:30 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think you can't cover all the holes in one season. Player like DeRozan on a decent contract still raises the ceiling and provides options. Of course DeRozan is our guess, we have no idea if he really is a target.
All I can say. If THJ isn´t an option because of his defense a way worse defender like DeRozan is going to make a lot of people really unhappy once they see him in a Mavs jersey. Pop moved him to PF/SF to hide some of his short comings. Mavs are already trying to hide Luka (prevent fouls, save energy, he isn´t a terrible defender). In a series against the Clippers or any other good team DeRozan would need to play the THJ role on defense. Meaning that he most likely guards one of the best players in the league.
(06-10-2021, 03:23 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]It would be interesting to see if Mavs actually tried to roll out Luka-THJ-DFS-DeRozan-KP lineup. DeRozan played PF at SA and Luka is also big enough to handle most PF. If DeRozan is the only non shooter, offense would still work well. Defense is of course another issue.
Considering there's only a single capable defender in that starting five, yes, defense would be a problem.
I have warmed up to DeRozan, but he only makes sense if 1) KP is replaced by a decent rim/paint protector (could be a new-and-improved-after-offseason-work KP, but I seriously doubt it), and (not or) if 2) THJ goes to the bench if retained, or is let go.
(06-10-2021, 03:18 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]I imagine Brogdon will be high on the wish list if Indiana decides to shake things up.
A playmaker *and* rugged defender. One of the 14 guys for whom I would include DFS in a trade. Hard to imagine a deal for him without KP outgoing (likely three-team).
(06-10-2021, 03:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]All I can say. If THJ isn´t an option because of his defense a way worse defender like DeRozan is going to make a lot of people really unhappy once they see him in a Mavs jersey. Pop moved him to PF/SF to hide some of his short comings. Mavs are already trying to hide Luka (prevent fouls, save energy, he isn´t a terrible defender). In a series against the Clippers or any other good team DeRozan would need to play the THJ role on defense. Meaning that he most likely guards one of the best players in the league.
Did they move him to play PF because he is not good at defense or because the Spurs strength is a lot of young wings and make it work to get them all on the court?
Sure he is not a very good defender, doesn't shoot threes and his plus/minus is concerning, but I view what the Spurs did as a positive to get the best players on the floor, not to hide someone.
(06-10-2021, 02:58 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Mark Cuban speaks to the Daily Beast on the series and the offseason.
Highlights --
What went wrong with the playoff run?
Our role players didn't make their threes, and we had plenty of open looks in Game 7. We did a great job on Kawhi. You pick your poison. If Luke Kennard is gonna beat us, he's gonna beat us. And he beat us.
Beef between Luka and KP?
Doesn't exist. On the court, they have good chemistry. We just used KP as a decoy. That was the idea -- get more space for Luka because it was so crowded. KP did a great job doing everything we asked him to do. Our role players just didn't make shots.
That's a pretty expensive decoy.
I'm fine with that. Not everyone can be a decoy. If we had other players who could be a decoy, we would have used them.
What does this roster need to contend?
A secondary ball handler with some size. KP will spread the court, make threes, cut, and block shots. Luka will create. We've got shooters with Tim and Trey and Maxi and others. We need someone to take the pressure off Luka, so that instead of him having to have the ball in his hands for 40 minutes, it could be 32 minutes. That's what we need.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mark-cuban...-to-crypto
Man, I know he is the owner, is around the team all the time, watches a ton of basketball and is certainly very involved with everything with the team. But whenever I see quotes from him like this, I feel less and less confident in our future. I also get the feeling he thinks he is always the smartest guy in the room....I guess that is warranted being a billionaire.
Anyway, even comments I agree with, I feel less confident. Maybe it is me.
(06-10-2021, 03:47 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I know he is the owner, is around the team all the time, watches a ton of basketball and is certainly very involved with everything with the team. But whenever I see quotes from him like this, I feel less and less confident in our future. I also get the feeling he thinks he is always the smartest guy in the room....I guess that is warranted being a billionaire.
Anyway, even comments I agree with, I feel less confident. Maybe it is me.
Agreed. His comments would be more comedic than Family Guy if it didn't bode so horrendously for the Mavs if he's telling the truth. Also wonder how THJ and DFS feel reading that.
(06-10-2021, 03:40 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Did they move him to play PF because he is not good at defense or because the Spurs strength is a lot of young wings and make it work to get them all on the court?
Sure he is not a very good defender, doesn't shoot threes and his plus/minus is concerning, but I view what the Spurs did as a positive to get the best players on the floor, not to hide someone.
I think they are clearly trying to limit the damage on defense. For a guy that used to be a great athlet his lateral quickness is really bad. He defends the easiest perimeter matchup. Most of the time that´s a modern day PF like Crowder, O´Neal, Kleber or even DFS.
(06-10-2021, 03:47 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I know he is the owner, is around the team all the time, watches a ton of basketball and is certainly very involved with everything with the team. But whenever I see quotes from him like this, I feel less and less confident in our future.
I don't put a huge amount of stock in anything a member of the front office says about the team's intentions, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.
Was surprised to see Cubes play the "Their role players were better than our role players" card. Unlike him to throw his own players under the bus. He sounded a bit frustrated.
(06-10-2021, 01:05 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]You are totally out of line here. We are providing estimations here, not handling negotiations. I sure expect GM to negotiate.
I don’t agree it was out of line. In negotiations you have to know the amount you will not pay. KL said “I don’t think he’s a negative at $20M”. That means to me, he would even be willing to pay more than that, because, if you believe that is on par value going forward, why quibble over a M or 2 more?
Also, I have a ‘94 Honda Civic I want to sell him for $20k. It is a Honda!!! I know he won’t look at the Bluebook value, I just need to sell him on the features and that low mileage!
(06-10-2021, 04:18 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]KL said “I don’t think he’s a negative at $20M”. That means to me, he would even be willing to pay more than that, because, if you believe that is on par value going forward, why quibble over a M or 2 more?
To clarify, hopefully without inserting myself in the other part of this conversation, I think $20 million is about the max I would feel good about.
But, it really is about the tax, and whether or not Cuban will ever pay it again. If they're not trading KP, then cap room is over for a while after this summer. At that point, I'm more than ok with Cuban wasting his money, though your follow up will undoubtedly be about lessening these guys' attractiveness as trades assets, and I do agree with that logic.
If THJ is back at $15 million per, I'll tattoo a picture of Cuban on my back. I'll celebrate Cuban Day every summer, for the rest of my life. I'll open a church called Sacred Cuban and become its first ordained minister.
If he's back at $20 million per, I'll nod with approval, and hope the move works out.
If he's back at $24 million per...that will sting a bit, and I'll be nervous. Still hopeful though, because I like the player.
Like you have said repeatedly, I hope the Mavs negotiate well.
(06-10-2021, 04:18 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t agree it was out of line. In negotiations you have to know the amount you will not pay. KL said “I don’t think he’s a negative at $20M”. That means to me, he would even be willing to pay more than that, because, if you believe that is on par value going forward, why quibble over a M or 2 more?
Also, I have a ‘94 Honda Civic I want to sell him for $20k. It is a Honda!!! I know he won’t look at the Bluebook value, I just need to sell him on the features and that low mileage!
That has again nothing to do with negotiations. It is still an evaluation.
(06-10-2021, 04:52 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]That has again nothing to do with negotiations. It is still an evaluation.
Evaluation is a part of negotiation. So it has everything to do with negotiation.
(06-10-2021, 04:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]To clarify, hopefully without inserting myself in the other part of this conversation, I think $20 million is about the max I would feel good about.
But, it really is about the tax, and whether or not Cuban will ever pay it again. If they're not trading KP, then cap room is over for a while after this summer. At that point, I'm more than ok with Cuban wasting his money, though your follow up will undoubtedly be about lessening these guys' attractiveness as trades assets, and I do agree with that logic.
If THJ is back at $15 million per, I'll tattoo a picture of Cuban on my back. I'll celebrate Cuban Day every summer, for the rest of my life. I'll open a church called Sacred Cuban and become its first ordained minister.
If he's back at $20 million per, I'll nod with approval, and hope the move works out.
If he's back at $24 million per...that will sting a bit, and I'll be nervous. Still hopeful though, because I like the player.
Like you have said repeatedly, I hope the Mavs negotiate well.
All depends on his market value, presuming we do something else to get that playmaker. There's a huge difference between giving him $20 mil because some other team out there was going to give him that, versus bidding against yourself (which, as we have seen, the Mavs are so, so wont to do).
I will say that any team that gives Timothy Hardaway Junior a deal averaging or starting at (presuming increases) $24 mil per is dumb as dirt, and I would hope desperately that it isn't the Mavs.
I may throw a similar-level tantrum if the Mavs sign Tim to a $20 mil per deal, end up not getting their playmaker, and then say, "Well, we had planned to do such-and-such, but at the end of the day, we had to pay Tim." Bang-head smiley indeed.
(06-10-2021, 07:24 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]All depends on his market value, presuming we do something else to get that playmaker. There's a huge difference between giving him $20 mil because some other team out there was going to give him that, versus bidding against yourself (which, as we have seen, the Mavs are so, so wont to do).
I will say that any team that gives Timothy Hardaway Junior a deal averaging or starting at (presuming increases) $24 mil per is dumb as dirt, and I would hope desperately that it isn't the Mavs.
I may throw a similar-level tantrum if the Mavs sign Tim to a $20 mil per deal, end up not getting their playmaker, and then say, "Well, we had planned to do such-and-such, but at the end of the day, we had to pay Tim." Bang-head smiley indeed.
I'm pretty much in lock-step with you here.
The positives Hardaway, 29, brings by re-signing him must be weighed against where you think your team is along the championship trajectory, and the nature of your plans to move forward in the near future is certainly germane to whether he's worth bringing back.
(06-10-2021, 04:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If THJ is back at $15 million per, I'll tattoo a picture of Cuban on my back. I'll celebrate Cuban Day every summer, for the rest of my life. I'll open a church called Sacred Cuban and become its first ordained minister.
If he's back at $20 million per, I'll nod with approval, and hope the move works out.
Man I will hate 20 mil/yr for THJ. That was the price of THJ playing like games 1 and 2 for a whole series and lifting the Mavs past the Clippers. Once that ship sailed, THJ's value dropped. If Mavs kept him for 15/yr I would feel really good because it means his contract is movable and Mavs can likely squeeze in another impact player (eg Holmes). 20 mil/yr would just make me sick.
(06-10-2021, 08:29 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Man I will hate 20 mil/yr for THJ. That was the price of THJ playing like games 1 and 2 for a whole series and lifting the Mavs past the Clippers. Once that ship sailed, THJ's value dropped. If Mavs kept him for 15/yr I would feel really good because it means his contract is movable and Mavs can likely squeeze in another impact player (eg Holmes). 20 mil/yr would just make me sick.
I like how, in your mind, the worst case scenario is THJ at 20 mil/yr. If you've been paying attention to Donnie, the reality will be much closer to 23 mil/yr.
(06-10-2021, 09:26 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: [ -> ]I like how, in your mind, the worst case scenario is THJ at 20 mil/yr. If you've been paying attention to Donnie, the reality will be much closer to 23 mil/yr.
I mean that's just completely nuts
Who is this team that's going to offer THJ 20 million?
There aren't that many teams with cap space. Most of the ones that do have cap space are rebuilding or looking for other positions. Who is this mystery team that's going to give THJ all this money?
I mean the Miami Heat is the only team I can think of if they strike out on all their other targets but they tend to get the best FAs.
(06-10-2021, 09:32 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I mean that's just completely nuts
Of course it is. But so was Wes Matthews for 18mil in 2015 dollars. Donnie gunna Donnie.
(06-10-2021, 09:46 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Who is this team that's going to offer THJ 20 million?
There aren't that many teams with cap space. Most of the ones that do have cap space are rebuilding or looking for other positions. Who is this mystery team that's going to give THJ all this money?
I mean the Miami Heat is the only team I can think of if they strike out on all their other targets but they tend to get the best FAs.
Nobody.
If you do a Harris + Ross + Bamba + X for Porzingis + Richardson trade, you can pick up a THJ replacement for $12.5M/year, while you can trade THJ to a contender via S&T. Everybody thought was a grossly overpaid no defense chucker for 17M a year. Now Luka elevates his game and some want to give him $20M+.
THJ to Lakers, Kuzma to Bulls, Markkanen to Mavs.
Full MLE to OPJ and be done with it.
Doncic/Brunson
Harris/Ross
DFS/OPJ
Markkanen/Kleber
Bamba/WCS