(01-05-2022, 09:44 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson is the most critical decision for Nico imo. I will be almost Nash level disgusted if they don't keep him or at least get good compensation, if he does decide to leave.
This is interesting to me.
Do you think JB's play gets close to the level of Nash's play before he left DAL?
(01-05-2022, 09:46 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]This is interesting to me.
Do you think JB's play gets close to the level of Nash's play before he left DAL?
No, I loved watching Nash, Fin and Dirk together and I blame Mark for taking that from Mavs fans. (old news)
JB is not Nash. All that said, it is more on the asset management side for me. If he goes, fine, just make sure the Mavs are better for it.
(01-05-2022, 09:46 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think JB's play gets close to the level of Nash's play before he left DAL?
No, clearly not.
But, Nash was older, if you remember. I believe he left Dallas after his
second contract, after playing behind Kidd in PHX kept him relatively cheap through his first free agency. He was a late bloomer.
I don't anticipate that Brunson will reach prime-PHX-level Nash MVP status, but I wouldn't discount the possibility of him eventually becoming Dallas Nash level. No joke, I think that's possible.
(01-05-2022, 11:20 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't discount the possibility of him eventually becoming Dallas Nash level. No joke, I think that's possible.
Can you describe in more detail what "Dallas Nash level" means? All star but not MVP?
Honestly, the decision to let go of Nash needs to be dragged back out about once a month. Way more than we talk about it. It's painful, but we must NEVER FORGET.
And now that @"miles berg" isn't really around, there'll be nobody to stop us from mourning properly!
(01-05-2022, 11:25 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Can you describe in more detail what "Dallas Nash level" means? All star but not MVP?
Yeah, that description works for me, sure.
He was great in Dallas, but he never quite reached that "killer" level he did in PHX, in my opinion, though I'm sure he would have, eventually.
I believe Brunson might, possibly be a future all star. I'm not predicting it, but I honestly believe that's possible if he lands in the right situation next year and continues to develop.
Letting Nash go unleashed Dirk because they finally started to surround him with better defenders. Call me crazy but I think it was the right decision. I obviously would have prefered to get something in return instead of letting him walk in free agency but I never blamed Cuban for moving in a different direction.
(01-05-2022, 11:40 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Call me crazy but I think it was the right decision.
@"miles berg" is that you??!!
(01-05-2022, 11:40 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Letting Nash go unleashed Dirk because they finally started to surround him with better defenders. Call me crazy but I think it was the right decision. I obviously would have prefered to get something in return instead of letting him walk in free agency but I never blamed Cuban for moving in a different direction.
With what we knew at the time, I do not fault Cuban at all (other than having a totally lost asset). I would NEVER have guessed Nash would become an MVP, totally change the way he took care of his body, and totally change the trajectory of his health situation at the age he did.
In hindsight it was a bad move....but in the moment it was a totally understandable move.
HOW MANY ACCOUNTS DOES @"miles berg" control here?????
(01-05-2022, 11:26 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, that description works for me, sure.
He was great in Dallas, but he never quite reached that "killer" level he did in PHX, in my opinion, though I'm sure he would have, eventually.
I believe Brunson might, possibly be a future all star. I'm not predicting it, but I honestly believe that's possible if he lands in the right situation next year and continues to develop.
Do you think JB could become an All Star next to Luka?
I personally don't that's why I want to trade him.
(01-05-2022, 11:46 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think JB could become an All Star next to Luka?
I personally don't that's why I want to trade him.
That's a good question. I'm not sure, actually, but I probably agree that it's less likely.
(01-05-2022, 09:44 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]"I think that's a question I'll dive into later later this season in an article dedicated to that. I think your assessment is a little bleak, but Hardaway does seem like the odd man out, and that has to be addressed an any analysis whether Brunson is a long-term fit, because you can't build a stable defense with those three in closing lineups — even assuming that a fully fit Doncic can be average or even slightly above on that end as time goes on."
Cato commenting on his Brunson article and a reader post.
I would keep Brunson 10/10 times over Hardaway if that is the true choice. Disappointed in how Tim is responding to his new contract this year but maybe he will get it turned around. I have no idea if Tim could even be traded for fair value right now. I guess it depends on your definition of fair.
Brunson is the most critical decision for Nico imo. I will be almost Nash level disgusted if they don't keep him or at least get good compensation, if he does decide to leave.
I saw that question and answer too. I agree, Hardaway does seem like an odd man out. Although I would like to see him play more closer to his play of last year before making a final decision. Regardless, it is tough to think there is enough room if Bullock, THJ, Brunson, DFS and Maxi are all making 10 million plus. I always envisioned him as a Jordan Clarkston type. I want him to be aggressive looking for his shot, but so far it really hasn't really clicked. I grew concerned this offseason when Kidd made mention of him being an all star if he improved in certain aspects. I believe than as I do now that it was a miscalculation of his skills.
https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...5969087488
Regarding Jalen, I always viewed that Cuban, Harlabob, and analytics guys always undervalued what they have in him. I may be wrong, but just the feeling I have always gotten going back to his rookie year. He isn't the perfect player, but I think there are small things he does that analytics don't always catch. Yes, he was not good in the playoffs. But look at his minutes in those series. Would he have found a way if he was given 25 minutes a night? Who knows. The last 4 games of that series he got very limited minutes. Now you can always argue the chicken or the egg question and that is legit response.
My big question is if the Mavs were aggressive this offseason to sign him? If not, that was a mistake. Maybe he was always going to bet on himself and wait until free agency. But a four year contract with a player option, could have been life changing money for him and allowed him another payday in the future. He has not made a lot of money so far in his career. There is not guarantee if he gets hurt that $ will be there for him. I am really curious if there was ever any discussions with him and his agent this summer.
(01-05-2022, 11:46 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think JB could become an All Star next to Luka?
I personally don't that's why I want to trade him.
No, I do not. But I think even with a very talented team he will get 13-15 points a game, 5 assists, a couple of rebounds. while shooting a high percentage and not turning the ball over a lot. His game can be made to fit with other really good players imo and a guy you feel comfortable to be in at the end of games.
Not the same player, but similar thoughts to JET. Not the ideal fit/player, but just a guy you know who will help you win.
Although I really want to see how him and Luka play off each other over the next few weeks.
(01-05-2022, 11:43 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]With what we knew at the time, I do not fault Cuban at all (other than having a totally lost asset). I would NEVER have guessed Nash would become an MVP, totally change the way he took care of his body, and totally change the trajectory of his health situation at the age he did.
In hindsight it was a bad move....but in the moment it was a totally understandable move.
Ignoring that I don´t think Nash deserved any of his MVP awards I would argue that it is unlikely that he plays as well in Dallas. Don´t think they would have run a system like D´Antoni´s 7s or less offense. Don´t think they would have let him dominate the ball. Dirk had established himself as the first option and needed better defensive support.
Important part for me was that the Mavs improved without Nash. I don´t think that is debatable. 58 wins and a 2nd round exit in the first season without him. Losing against a Suns team that was lead by Nash looks bad but there is no guarantee that a Mavs team with Nash would even get that far.
In the following season they won 60 games and made the finals. Beating Nash and the Suns in the WCFs.
Dirk and Nash made for an alltime great offense but even by themself they could carry a top offense (Mavs 4th in 05, 1st in 06). Difference is that the Mavs defense improved a lot. Ranked 26th in 04. 9th in 05. 11th in 06.
(01-05-2022, 11:57 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Ignoring that I don´t think Nash deserved any of his MVP awards I would argue that it is unlikely that he plays as well in Dallas. Don´t think they would have run a system like D´Antoni´s 7s or less offense. Don´t think they would have let him dominate the ball. Dirk had established himself as the first option and needed better defensive support.
Important part for me was that the Mavs improved without Nash. I don´t think that is debatable. 58 wins and a 2nd round exit in the first season without him. Losing against a Suns team that was lead by Nash looks bad but there is no guarantee that a Mavs team with Nash would even get that far.
In the following season they won 60 games and made the finals. Beating Nash and the Suns in the WCFs.
Dirk and Nash made for an alltime great offense but even by themself they could carry a top offense (Mavs 4th in 05, 1st in 06). Difference is that the Mavs defense improved a lot. Ranked 26th in 04. 9th in 05. 11th in 06.
Totally agree they were better apart and able to both fly. I personally think Nash was worthy of MVP, but I do think the system enabled that.
Honestly I wonder to some extent (not completely) if Nash with DAntoni is like Luka with RC. A coach really creating a system and a space for a unique player to thrive.
(01-05-2022, 11:57 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Ignoring that I don´t think Nash deserved any of his MVP awards I would argue that it is unlikely that he plays as well in Dallas. Don´t think they would have run a system like D´Antoni´s 7s or less offense. Don´t think they would have let him dominate the ball. Dirk had established himself as the first option and needed better defensive support.
I usually agree with you, but in this case we're remembering different things. Not sure I'm right, 'cause it's you, but...
...I think Nash
did dominate the ball, right up until he walked. I think he was the key to whole team in Nellie's mind, and I think letting Nash walk was the main reason Nellie gave up and quit. I'm not sure he ever gets fired if Nash is re-signed, and I think Nash would've continued to be featured here. Obviously, I can't say confidently that he would've reached the level he did in PHX, but I think he would've had more than enough opportunity to continue his path toward superstardom.
If anything, I think Nash staying might've hampered Dirk's growth in some ways, but I don't think it would've worked the other way around.
(01-05-2022, 03:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I usually agree with you, but in this case we're remembering different things. Not sure I'm right, 'cause it's you, but...
...I think Nash did dominate the ball, right up until he walked. I think he was the key to whole team in Nellie's mind, and I think letting Nash walk was the main reason Nellie gave up and quit. I'm not sure he ever gets fired if Nash is re-signed, and I think Nash would've continued to be featured here. Obviously, I can't say confidently that he would've reached the level he did in PHX, but I think he would've had more than enough opportunity to continue his path toward superstardom.
If anything, I think Nash staying might've hampered Dirk's growth in some ways, but I don't think it would've worked the other way around.
If we are going in that direction I kinda agree. Nash and Dirk both had a down season in 03/04. Mostly because the roster construction was completly off. Adding Walker and Jamison reduced the amount of touches for both and nuked an already mediocre defense. Maybe it would have been enough to move on from the latter two and build around Nash and Dirk. Nash&Dirk instead of Terry&Dirk with better defenders around them.
Nellie topic is even more interesting. I think the Mavs never make the defensive improvements that were needed to reach the next level in the following seasons if he stays. Just wasn´t his mentality.
(01-05-2022, 03:44 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Nellie topic is even more interesting. I think the Mavs never make the defensive improvements that were needed to reach the next level in the following seasons if he stays. Just wasn´t his mentality.
Yeah, that might be a good call.
I just don't think Johnson's tenure ever happens without losing Nash. I think he did some good things, so that might have been for the best, but on the other hand I think maybe he had a couple of championships coached away from him, too.
(01-05-2022, 12:00 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I wonder to some extent (not completely) if Nash with DAntoni is like Luka with RC. A coach really creating a system and a space for a unique player to thrive.
Speaking of coaches to players. What if RC to Luka was like Nellie to Dirk. And we are now in the Avery/Kidd to Luka phase of his career.
![[Image: laughing-rofl.gif]](https://c.tenor.com/7NdBVF53PM4AAAAd/laughing-rofl.gif)