MavsBoard

(06-30-2022, 10:34 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs fans seem more excited about the possibility of the Knicks/Brunson struggling than their own team. That pretty much sums up the state of the franchise right now. We are going backwards. 

When Luka leaves, I hope the same fans keep the same attitude.

Coping mechanisms. Beloved player like Brunson is suddenly a terrible human being and also not nearly as good as he was just a few days ago. Team that signed him is even worse.
And it´s not limited to players. Just look at Donnie´s exit. Burning all bridges is always the answer.

(06-30-2022, 10:05 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The JB fiasco was a demonstration of the Mavs FO not being very astute in their choices.

1 If they had assessed better at the outset, as to JB's potential, they would have given him a differently-structured deal. It's true it was a popular type of deal at time and didn't have high potential to be a problem, but they never saw this outcome as possible.
2 If they had evaluated his potential and trajectory better as they went along, they would have given him an extension when given the opportunity. They devalued their own asset and his potential, despite seeing him every day.
3 If they had understood his leadership and drive all along (as it has been on display at every place he's played), they would have factored that into the way they handled him.

They have to be experts at these types of things. Sadly, they are not, and it will continue to hold them back as long as they don't remedy their lack of expertise. Some teams are really good at such things. It's possible. But not to one who isn't, yet sees himself as already an expert.

THIS is something I can get on board with. They have to be better. And if Cuban is still getting heavily involved nothing will change until he does.

(06-30-2022, 10:34 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]When Luka leaves, I hope the same fans keep the same attitude.

What I feel like I've learned this week is that if Luka left, this board would 100% find a way to make it his fault.

(06-30-2022, 09:47 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]Audio. I am saying Cuban because he is the common factor in all of this even as the front office has changed. Mayebe be gave assurances to Nico that he would do what it takes to keep JB which is why they didn’t trade him.  That’s why I say when you are saying let’s see what else the FO does, remind yourself that Cuban’s large shadow lurks behind almost everything. 

I am not losing sleep over this. My cup runneth over with that title Dirk got. I will die a contented Mavs fan. I don’t even have an issue if Cuban just comes out and says we are going to run this franchise like a small market team and play moneyball because I cannot punch with the heavyweight owners anymore when it comes to luxury tax.  Just don’t insult the fan base by pretending you are the smartest man in the room or flaunt your supposedly deep pockets by coming on Shark Tank and then acting like you are running a nickel and dime operation when it comes to paying up. Even average talent commands a lot of money these days. I would be fine if Cuban was just honest about what the Mavs are trying to do.

I feel ya. Don't get me wrong. I seriously do not like Cuban and if he doesn't get out of the way it doesn't matter who they bring in. The result will be the same. However, the KP trade gave me a lot of hope. In the past Cuban would have stuck with KP not wanting to admit it was a mistake.

That's exactly why I said they got my attention trading KP for what they did. They traded KP for sensible pieces that were good fits. That's different than the moves we've seen in the past. Before, Cuban wouldn't have let KP go without a superstar (or at the very least a big "name") coming back. Either that or he lets a guy walk for nothing because of an injury history like Nash. Bertans and Dinwiddie was a sensible move for just good role players.

The KP trade and the progress made on the court are what I'm hanging my hat on right now saying let's be patient. If it wasn't for that then I would 100% agree with you that its just the Mavs doing Mav things.

(06-30-2022, 10:29 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The buck stops with Cuban. He either makes decisions without being smart enough, or he hires and delegates to someone (or someones) who isn't smart enough, Either way, it's 100% on Cuban, until he has a FO that is elite in the areas where you need to be great.

You take that back! Mark Cuban is the elite of the elite at dodging sexual harassment cases!

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(06-30-2022, 10:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I feel like I've learned this week is that if Luka left, this board would 100% find a way to make it his fault.

And trash him.

(06-30-2022, 10:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I feel like I've learned this week is that if Luka left, this board would 100% find a way to make it his fault.

What I have learned over the last 10 years is that no matter what happens that is bad, this board will 100% find a way to make it Cuban's fault.

(06-30-2022, 11:01 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]What I have learned over the last 10 years is that no matter what happens that is bad, this board will 100% find a way to make it Cuban's fault.

Yes. Because he's the owner of the team. It is his fault.

(06-30-2022, 11:01 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]What I have learned over the last 10 years is that no matter what happens that is bad, this board will 100% find a way to make it Cuban's fault.

And brush it under the rug at the same time!

(06-30-2022, 10:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I feel like I've learned this week is that if Luka left, this board would 100% find a way to make it his fault.

I can tell you right now I wouldn't. If the FO keeps making sensible moves then I'll get behind them. I'm wait and see right now. I feel like they earned a little good will this past year with the moves they made on and off the court.

If they don't continue to progress or if Cuban shows himself overriding basketball moves because he is the smartest guy in the room...then, I'm all for Luka going somewhere where they do have a good FO.

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(06-30-2022, 11:01 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]What I have learned over the last 10 years is that no matter what happens that is bad, this board will 100% find a way to make it Cuban's fault.

It wouldn't be if he just signed checks like the smart owners.

(06-30-2022, 11:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Because he's the owner of the team. It is his fault.

It is Cuban's fault that JB grew up with the dream of being the Knick's PG? Damn, Cuban is way more powerful than I thought. And he almost seems like a god with how much real estate he occupies in the hearts and minds of fans.

(06-30-2022, 11:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]It is Cuban's fault that JB grew up with the dream of being the Knick's PG? Damn, Cuban is way more powerful than I thought. And he almost seems like a god with how much real estate he occupies in the hearts and minds of fans.

Is that you Mark?

(06-30-2022, 11:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]It is Cuban's fault that JB grew up with the dream of being the Knick's PG? 

No, but it sure is his fault that he put the team in a position to desperately need JB to re-sign and not get it done. It's his fault he wasn't successful in either A) persuading the kid to stay here, where he was successful or B) getting something for him at some earlier point before this dead end of a disaster. 

You can make excuses for him if you want, I'm not saying that makes you a bad person. But the harassment scandals, the front office toxicity, the fact that he's there, coursed, sniffing jocks...it's just not working. It's embarrassing, imo. Even if we limit the scope only to what has happened in the roster shaping business, it has been one embarrassing failure after another. Do you never get fed up with it?

(06-30-2022, 11:07 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Is that you Mark?

I don't like Cuban and think he has made big mistakes as an owner.

But I cannot stand the endless scapegoating of him. It is irrational and petty IMO.

(06-30-2022, 11:10 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I don't like Cuban and think he has made big mistakes as an owner.

But I cannot stand the endless scapegoating of him. It is irrational and petty IMO.

I was only joking. I used to take up for him too. I’ll let you keep fighting the good fight. My time has passed.

(06-30-2022, 11:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]No, but it sure is his fault that he put the team in a position to desperately need JB to re-sign and not get it done. It's his fault he wasn't successful in either A) persuading the kid to stay here, where he was successful or B) getting something for him at some earlier point before this dead end of a disaster. 

You can make excuses for him if you want, I'm not saying that makes you a bad person. But the harassment scandals, the front office toxicity, the fact that he's there, coursed, sniffing jocks...it's just not working. It's embarrassing, imo. Even if we limit the scope only to what has happened in the roster shaping business, it has been one embarrassing failure after another. Do you never get fed up with it?

You cannot force someone to stay who doesn't want to. And speculation I have seen is that the Mavs couldn't trade him this past year because everyone knew he was going to NYK.

I do get fed up with the Mavs management mistakes. But I do not think all of them fall on Cuban and IMO most of the last decade falls to the feet of Donnie as much if not more. 

I think this JB episode is not the Mavs fault. After the playoffs last year I would not have extended JB at his max extension. And do not believe Rick Brunson at ALL, I think he lied about the whole contract situation when he ran to MacMahon on April 25. 

Yes, give blame where it is due and where the evidence confirms. But blaming just because we feel the need to have a scapegoat is not cool.

(06-30-2022, 11:10 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]But I cannot stand the endless scapegoating of him. It is irrational and petty IMO.

Well dude, that kind of thing simply comes with stewardship of a pro sports team, especially an unsuccessful one. 

I'm right there with you fairly often when you defend the state of this franchise - when I agree. I am not often a "sky is falling" type, I hope you'll agree. 

But THIS ONE was bad. I refuse to rationalize it. They just fell on their faces, and in a way I would've bet heavily against a month ago. 

If it makes you feel better, I can blame Harrison? He got PANTSED by Leon Rose. Just annihilated. I hope he learns and improves, because if Cuban has learned and improved, I personally have seen no sign of it.

(06-30-2022, 11:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He got PANTSED by Leon Rose.

How did he get pantsed? What did you expect Nico to do?

(06-30-2022, 11:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Well dude, that kind of thing simply comes with stewardship of a pro sports team, especially an unsuccessful one. 

I'm right there with you fairly often when you defend the state of this franchise - when I agree. I am not often a "sky is falling" type, I hope you'll agree. 

But THIS ONE was bad. I refuse to rationalize it. They just fell on their faces, and in a way I would've bet heavily against a month ago. 

If it makes you feel better, I can blame Harrison? He got PANTSED by Leon Rose. Just annihilated. I hope he learns and improves, because if Cuban has learned and improved, I personally have seen no sign of it.

There is a lesson here for Nico on contract structure if nothing else.  Can he learn from the previous MBT's mistake?

The disheartening thing from my perspective is that I'd hoped Kidd/Nico would be a lot better at the relationship and recruiting game than Donnie and Rick.  I don't think we've seen evidence of that improvement.  The Jalen bridge was probably burned long before Nico was hired.

(06-30-2022, 10:58 PM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]I feel ya. Don't get me wrong. I seriously do not like Cuban and if he doesn't get out of the way it doesn't matter who they bring in. The result will be the same. However, the KP trade gave me a lot of hope. In the past Cuban would have stuck with KP not wanting to admit it was a mistake.

That's exactly why I said they got my attention trading KP for what they did. They traded KP for sensible pieces that were good fits. That's different than the moves we've seen in the past. Before, Cuban wouldn't have let KP go without a superstar (or at the very least a big "name") coming back. Either that or he lets a guy walk for nothing because of an injury history like Nash. Bertans and Dinwiddie was a sensible move for just good role players.

The KP trade and the progress made on the court are what I'm hanging my hat on right now saying let's be patient. If it wasn't for that then I would 100% agree with you that its just the Mavs doing Mav things.

They got two bad contracts that a team was trying to dump and threw in a 2nd round pick as well. IMO it was more about getting rid of KP and finding whichever team but first than about fit. Not evaluating a player they had all along or at least a year in Kidd and Nico’s case to lock him up in Feb doesn’t bode well. 

I have nothing against Nico but I felt from the beginning that hiring someone who primarily worked with stars when it came to shoe deals is different from someone who identified talent early on in the process. Nothing I read about Nico suggests that he was engaged in the latter. I am not down on him. I am not highly optimistic either. It’s a wait and see for me.