MavsBoard

(06-28-2022, 09:11 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1541962461665968128

There you go, @"DanSchwartzgan".

I bet the deal you've been promoting was made possible for the Mavs, but Cuban didn't want to take on the salary of the player(s) (and pay the tax on them), even to get the pick back.

Maybe he lost a lot of money in the crypto market. Even rich people can only make so many dumb decisions before they start burning through their money.

(06-28-2022, 09:14 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe he lost a lot of money in the crypto market. Even rich people can only make so many dumb decisions before they start burning through their money.

If Brunson gets the max I'm not even mad. Good for him. 

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1541963337382170624

I am probably the biggest Jalen homer here.  I would prefer to keep him than lose him, but 30 million is eye opening.  We will see where the # comes in at, but while still a major screw up by the Mavs in several steps, 30 million is not a # to take lightly.

All I know is well-run franchises never let good players just get away for nothing after a wildly successful season. Never, ever. Cuban is the only guy who does this, it's the THIRD TIME he's done this!

(06-28-2022, 09:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]There you go, @"DanSchwartzgan".

I bet the deal you've been promoting was made possible for the Mavs, but Cuban didn't want to take on the salary of the player(s) (and pay the tax on them), even to get the pick back.

Two second rounders and cash?  I'm not sure why NY would offer Dallas its first back if there was a path to doing it for two second rounders and cash.

Everything always hinged on NY needing to pay someone at least a first to take one of the $10mm NY players.  Moving both for such a low cost means we never had a shot at getting our 2023 pick back.

I think some of these experts are getting carried away with how much money Brunson is going to get.  Some of this space may be related to a Murray deal.

Still don't get why we couldn't work out a S&T with NY.  That makes zero sense to me and reeks of Cuban being childish.  

And 22 a year is just a ridiculously low ball offer.  Either you get serious about what player's worth is or you don't.  They seem to run into this issue farrrr too often in FA.  I thought it was mostly a Donnie Nelson problem, but apparently it's just as much a Mark Cuban problem.

(06-28-2022, 09:28 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Two second rounders and cash? 

You're right, I apologize. I read "sending its 2023 ....back" and just went into SCORCHED EARTH mode. 

I edited "second round pick" to "first round pick" in my head. 

But please admit that this sucks taint.

(06-28-2022, 09:33 PM)Moviemavguy Wrote: [ -> ]Still don't get why we couldn't work out a S&T with NY.  That makes zero sense to me and reeks of Cuban being childish.  

And 22 a year is just a ridiculously low ball offer.  Either you get serious about what player's worth is or you don't.  They seem to run into this issue farrrr too often in FA.  I thought it was mostly a Donnie Nelson problem, but apparently it's just as much a Mark Cuban problem.

It was ALWAYS a Cuban problem. He's addicted to the idea of being the smartest guy in the room, that includes his own players being in the room.

(06-28-2022, 09:33 PM)Moviemavguy Wrote: [ -> ]Still don't get why we couldn't work out a S&T with NY.  That makes zero sense to me and reeks of Cuban being childish.  

He wants a lower payroll, so the check he has to write to the league at the end of the season is much, much lower. He wants this outcome MORE than he wants to add anything NY might've offered up. It's really quite simple. 

My guess is that where he'll go from here is to try to get out of paying the tax completely. Get ready for more disappointment at the trade deadline.

(06-28-2022, 09:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He wants a lower payroll, so the check he has to write to the league at the end of the season is much, much lower. He wants this outcome MORE than he wants to add anything NY might've offered up. It's really quite simple. 

My guess is that where he'll go from here is to try to get out of paying the tax completely. Get ready for more disappointment at the trade deadline.

Burks is a 10 million expiring, so I sincerely doubt that was the issue.  And he shot 40% from three at 12 ppg.  I saw the SB nation on potential S&Ts, and there were a multitude of things that could have happened.

And why offer Brunson any contract at all if that was true?

(06-28-2022, 09:33 PM)Moviemavguy Wrote: [ -> ]Still don't get why we couldn't work out a S&T with NY.  That makes zero sense to me and reeks of Cuban being childish.  

And 22 a year is just a ridiculously low ball offer.  Either you get serious about what player's worth is or you don't.  They seem to run into this issue farrrr too often in FA.  I thought it was mostly a Donnie Nelson problem, but apparently it's just as much a Mark Cuban problem.

It was always a Cuban issue.  The reason we didn't work out an S&T is Cuban does not want to pay a massive tax bill for draft capital.

(06-28-2022, 09:46 PM)Moviemavguy Wrote: [ -> ]And why offer Brunson any contract at all if that was true?

Because Brunson is GREAT. Just not great enough (in Cuban's mind, or Harrison's maybe) to outbid the Knicks. There was a pre-determined limit...for BRUNSON. Not for ANYONE. 

Maybe they have something up their sleeves for another player they deem impactful enough to increase the tax bill, idk. But, I feel like it was foolish to wonder whether they thought Burk was enough of an improvement over Josh Green to pay an additional $10 million (PLUS TAX).

As per tradition, I'm off the board for the day and big news breaks. Unfortunately, not good news. Some quick bullet points:

• I respect all the doom and gloom. Mavs are losing a top 5 player on the team (with arguments to be made about 2nd best, but I have DFS there).
  
• I think the criticism on Cuban is warranted if he truly is lowballing Brunson.
  
• Mavs need to work fast to secure one of the other lead guards on the market. Murray, D'Lo, Mitchell(?), etc.
  

However, while I think losing Brunson is a stinger, it's not a huge blow. You can definitely say I'm going into damage control mode because I never thought Brunson, a guy who has said he's all about winning, would willingly forego his best chance at that to go to a poverty franchise like the Knicks. But then again, I also probably diminished Brunson's ego, and his desire to be "the guy". He made a big deal on Duncan Robinsons podcast about him getting picked last among his fellow Villanova teammates in 2018, as he thought he was "the guy" then. I think Brunson has always wanted that and probably a lot more than we all realized. That was the one thing the Mavs could never give, and for that I just can't be mad. Because in order to kowtow to Brunson's desire to fix that issue, we'd have to be mentally challenged. 


Further, I was perfectly willing to hand Brunson a contract of 5/125 following the playoffs, and even then had some wiggle room in me to go higher. But as I stewed and ruminated I started to come back down to Earth. I kept saying, how many other guards could produce well next to Luka at a replacement Brunson level? Are they all worth more than 25 mil a year? I couldn't honestly say yes.  That made me start to sober up from JB. He's a great player, he flashed some great moments as a fit next to Luka,  but he just isn't worth that money full stop. 

Now before you hurl rocks at me, I understand the logic about preserving the asset, and overpaying to keep the asset to trade still is a viable (and arguably correct) way to go about this.  But to me, overpaying is still a mistake...a mismanage if you will. And the mismanaging of JB as an asset started as soon as he was signed to his rookie deal of 4 years, not 3. The mismanaging was exacerbated when we didn't make him an RFA in his 3rd year, and of course with hindsight we should have signed him to that extension. LOTS of chances. But to continue the merry-go-round of mismanaging by overpaying JB screams to me a panic move.  I don't think panic overpaying makes sense, and I truly believe the Mavs can at least in the short term find viable replacement guys that can allow us to find an even better player than Brunson as a permanent replacement later on. It sounds like plan powder, but the terms have changed and the Mavs are a powerhouse right now having just made the WCF. I think good players will want to play with Luka. 


This feeling mostly stems from me thinking that JB isn't good enough to command "lead guard" money. Some stats;

• Brunson averaged over 20/4/7 on some great shooting splits as a lead guard this year. In fact his stats have always been solid as the lead guard. 
  
• But in the last 4 years, the Mavs are 16-25 with Brunson as the head PG without Luka (yes I checked the box scores)
  

Obviously this is a birds eye approach, and includes our 2019 rookie year where the Mavs tanked, but this is a constant trend. Here's the breakdown:

• 2019: 2-4 (4 games JB played 30+ mins)
  
• 2020: 5-6 (10 games JB played 30+ mins)
  
• 2021: 2-4 (6 games JB played 30+ mins)
  
• 2022: 7-11 (All games JB was the lead guard)*
  
• Add in the 2-1 Playoff stretch and the Mavs are 18-26 all time (33.5 win pace). 
  

Does this tell the whole story? No. Does this undermine the times where JB has carried the team when Luka was out of shape? Yes. Yet, it's still a fact that JB couldn't lead his teams to wins as a lead guard. Whereas Luka DID do that with the same rosters. 19-14 overall (21-18 incl. playoffs) Luka's record without JB. Good for a 45 win pace.

There's a difference even in this crude way to compare guys. At the end of the day, wins matter, and that's why the Knicks are targeting Brunson though, right? Brunson isn't a lead guard. If the Knicks want to pay him as such go right ahead, and I admit I am looking forward to the time we face off against them next year. Odds are the Knicks will be once again at a 30 win pace, and Brunson will be public enemy number 1. 


If you read my essay, thanks. I cut a lot of it if you can believe that. I do admit I hold some tinge of animosity towards Jalen and his choice, but I respect his decision. I can't believe there isn't a conflict of interest given the fact Jalen's former agent, his current agent, and his very own family literally has direct ties to the Knicks. BUT that's a losing battle anyways.

Time to see what other guards are available.

But then Cuban was just flat out lying when he told Stein that they could pay Brunson more so they were in a better position to keep him.  Yikes.

(06-28-2022, 09:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, I apologize. I read "sending its 2023 ....back" and just went into SCORCHED EARTH mode. 

I edited "second round pick" to "first round pick" in my head. 

But please admit that this sucks taint.

Withholding judgement for now.   I've seen this coming since before the TDL, so it isn't surprising.  Right now I'm looking for ways to make lemonade.  There will be time for scorched earth later when we see how this all plays out.

(06-28-2022, 09:55 PM)Moviemavguy Wrote: [ -> ]But then Cuban was just flat out lying when he told Stein that they could pay Brunson more so they were in a better position to keep him.  Yikes.

I think he wanted Brunson back (would be crazy not to) and had a number in mind that he was willing to reach (and pay the tax on) and was hoping Brunson wouldn't receive an offer higher than that number. 

If you believe McMahon, that number was "Fred Van Vleet" money, which seems about right. 

Everything he said was meant to scare the Knicks out of taking the steps necessary to offer Brunson a big contract. If NY thought he would offer as much as possible, they might not go through the pain of preparing to make the offer (and this week has been work for them, to be sure). But, NY called his bluff. My guess is that the Mavs knew they weren't going to have Brunson back right about the time NY did its thing on draft night.

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(06-28-2022, 10:00 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]There will be time for scorched earth later when we see how this all plays out.

Fair. 

I, personally, am worried that there might not be adequate time for scorched earth later, so I'm getting a jump start now.