(07-02-2022, 12:55 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah...the Ticket guys were saying this as well...that JB's market value was way higher than 4 or 5/55 before January...so there was no way JB was begging for a 55M deal.
We are in January. On one hand you have guaranteed 55 mil, on the other hand you have a possibility of 80 mil in the summer. Things can go wrong until summer. You can get seriously injured and 80 mil would be gone, you could have a bad series,... I find it perfectly possible to take the money. It is still a lot of money. Not sure why people are so comfortable calling Rick Brunson a liar without any other info that would contradict what he said. Even same people that convince others on occasions what a great reporter McMahon is (January thing was mentioned by him several times as a fact - are we sure Rick is his only source?).
(07-02-2022, 12:55 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly dont think Mavs were ever in the plans. Seems like JB, Leon, Leon's son and Rick Brunson all have a plan of their own.
If that is true, it is Mavs job to realize that and act accordingly. They are the ones spending basically 24/7 with him.
(07-02-2022, 01:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]We are in January. On one hand you have guaranteed 55 mil, on the other hand you have a possibility of 80 mil in the summer. Things can go wrong until summer. You can get seriously injured and 80 mil would be gone, you could have a bad series,... I find it perfectly possible to take the money. It is still a lot of money. Not sure why people are so comfortable calling Rick Brunson a liar without any other info that would contradict what he said. Even same people that convince others on occasions what a great reporter McMahon is (January thing was mentioned by him several times as a fact - are we sure Rick is his only source?).
If that is true, it is Mavs job to realize that and act accordingly. They are the ones spending basically 24/7 with him.
We can argue about Playoff producer until the cows come home...but, imo as a casual, JB is very skilled and smart and worth way more than the 55m available. I personally would have bet on myself too at that point. Especially knowing you have Family in the Knicks organization that are influential to their decisions. 55m is a lot of money and I agree with you that some people would take the guarantee...but I think Jalens skills are way above the normal player that is in his type of position.
And...yeah...thats why I posted that they should have traded him. But they were still in a tough situation knowing you have a solid player that you shouldnt trade especially if he balls in playoffs. Just a bad deal around for the Mavs. Trade would have been best outcome in hindsight
(07-02-2022, 01:11 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]We can argue about Playoff producer until the cows come home...but, imo as a casual, JB is very skilled and smart and worth way more than the 55m available. I personally would have bet on myself too at that point. Especially knowing you have Family in the Knicks organization that are influential to their decisions. 55m is a lot of money and I agree with you that some people would take the guarantee...but I think Jalens skills are way above the normal player that is in his type of position.
I totally agree with you here.
I think if the Mavs had managed to get him on that 4/$55 million extension, that contract would be viewed today as a HUGE bargain, and we'd be heralding them for their foresight. And, I can absolutely get behind the idea that last off-season, and not in January, before the deadline, was probably the Mavs' last chance to get him locked in on that.
Sidebar: ironically, had they done that last off-season, Brunson probably would've been
more valuable at this past deadline, not less.
Anyway, I think it's easy to get lost in the weeds of the "what ifs" in cases like this. But, at the end of the day, it's the Mavs front office types'
job to guess right on those "what ifs." That might be an unreasonable standard, but they get paid a
lot to make
basketball their living, which is obviously a privilege, and that same unreasonable standard is hanging over the heads of every front office in the NBA.
Personally, I just can't let them off the hook for allowing the worst possible scenario to play out with an asset on Brunson's level, even if we here decide the odds were against them reaching a better outcome. Beating those odds, when necessary, is their job, imo.
We targeted the Knicks last summer and stole Reg out from under em. A little extra motivation, perhaps, in their relentless pursuit of JB?
My sense is the biggest mistake was not having the foresight to hire Ric Brunson.
(07-02-2022, 01:38 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/stat...3590289409
My understanding prior to this free agency was ***always*** that it was Brunson who didn't want the deal, seeing it as an underpay. I felt like a chump when it was portrayed as the Mavs not wanting to do that. Glad to see this and not feel like such a dummy.
(07-02-2022, 01:37 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]We targeted the Knicks last summer and stole Reg out from under em. A little extra motivation, perhaps, in their relentless pursuit of JB?
My sense is the biggest mistake was not having the foresight to hire Ric Brunson.
I dont think that matters. Its not a dumb thought by any means and makes sense.
I still feel like Leon, Rick, JB and Leon's son have had a plan for a while and Mavs werent part of that plan.
Definitely looks like the Brunson's are in a good situation being close with decision makers in New York. Again...in hindsight it looks like Mavs should have seen this and traded JB(if a deal made sense) last off season or at TDL. And...especially if Mark knew he would be a tight wad about Lux Tax and that possibly hurting the JB negotiations if they ever got to that point.
(07-02-2022, 01:45 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Again...in hindsight it looks like Mavs should have seen this and traded JB(if a deal made sense) last off season or at TDL.
Apparently they shopped JB heavily at the TDL but did not find a deal they thought was worth it. They knew at that time he was as good as gone according to Skin Wade.
(07-02-2022, 01:48 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently they shopped JB heavily at the TDL but did not find a deal they thought was worth it. They knew at that time he was as good as gone according to Skin Wade.
And THEREFORE all those who saw the Dinwiddie trade as writing on the wall, y'all were all spot on and correct.
(07-02-2022, 01:50 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]And THEREFORE all those who saw the Dinwiddie trade as writing on the wall, y'all were all spot on and correct.
Sadly, this is a very true statement.
I watched a World Wide Wob video on the day of the Porzingis trade in which he stated this as fact..."this absolutely means Brunson is gone" and I thought it was wishful thinking by a Knicks fan. Little did I know at the time, but I was the one guilty of wishful thinking.
(07-02-2022, 01:50 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]And THEREFORE all those who saw the Dinwiddie trade as writing on the wall, y'all were all spot on and correct.
Ok...see this post makes me confused. I get that there will always be people on opposite sides of the fence and you cant please everyone...
But this suggests Mavs knew and planned for JB leaving. So why is the Front Office being bashed if they showed foresight in evaluating what was going to happen?
So Mavs are stupid for a contract Donnie and Mark signed but showed the ability to plan on an exist strat with JB by signing Dinwiddie? Or Dinwiddie was just luck or coincidence?
Here is what Skin Wade is claiming:
When the Mavs did not offer JB a 4yrs/$55M deal last summer (because the new management/Cuban didn't see him as a long term solution with Luka) they gambled on being able to trade him at the TDL. They lost that gamble badly and knew that he was functionally gone after they failed to trade him.
This makes sense of Rick Brunson's frustration with DAL. And I am sure Donnie heading out the door added a bunch of fuel to the fire.
(07-02-2022, 01:56 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]So why is the Front Office being bashed if they showed foresight in evaluating what was going to happen?
Because they showed that "foresight" too late in the game to spin the situation to any sort of advantage.
(07-02-2022, 01:59 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Here is what Skin Wade is claiming:
When the Mavs did not offer JB a 4yrs/$55M deal last summer (because the new management/Cuban didn't see him as a long term solution with Luka) they gambled on being able to trade him at the TDL. They lost that gamble badly and knew that he was functionally gone after they failed to trade him.
This makes sense of Rick Brunson's frustration with DAL. And I am sure Donnie heading out the door added a bunch of fuel to the fire.
I think is likely a pretty clear and accurate picture. The clearest and most accurate we're likely to get.
(07-02-2022, 01:56 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]But this suggests Mavs knew and planned for JB leaving. So why is the Front Office being bashed if they showed foresight in evaluating what was going to happen?
So Mavs are stupid for a contract Donnie and Mark signed but showed the ability to plan on an exist strat with JB by signing Dinwiddie? Or Dinwiddie was just luck or coincidence?
That is what Skin Wade is claiming. That the Mavs knew they could lose JB for nothing and have been working on that possibility since last summer.
And we heard they were shopping JB last TDL even before we heard of any KP deal. Then the KP deal came down the pipe for SD and many connected the dots properly that SD was a replacement for the likely loss of JB.
(07-02-2022, 01:59 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Here is what Skin Wade is claiming:
When the Mavs did not offer JB a 4yrs/$55M deal last summer (because the new management/Cuban didn't see him as a long term solution with Luka) they gambled on being able to trade him at the TDL. They lost that gamble badly and knew that he was functionally gone after they failed to trade him.
This makes sense of Rick Brunson's frustration with DAL. And I am sure Donnie heading out the door added a bunch of fuel to the fire.
This makes sense as far as pissing off the Father of a player because you didnt believe in said player and were shopping him.
The money still doesnt work though and I think the Brunsons still had a plan to go to New York in place.
Short of a Max...I think Brunson was gone anyway. I could really be reading the situation badly though.
(07-02-2022, 01:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]think is likely a pretty clear and accurate picture. The clearest and most accurate we're likely to get.
If they knew he is gone if they don't trade him, they should obviously take that 23 that was reportedly on the table... Of course they didn't know, they gambled they will resign him for 22. Gambled and lost.
(07-02-2022, 01:59 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]not offer JB a 4yrs/$55M deal last summer
I personally do not fault the Mavs for this. They probably didn't see RC as "holding back" JB and didn't expect the jump we all saw this past year.
In retrospect it was a BAD, BAD decision. But in the moment I would have done the same thing.
(07-02-2022, 02:07 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]If they knew he is gone if they don't trade him, they should obviously take that 23 that was reportedly on the table... Of course they didn't know, they gambled they will resign him for 22. Gambled and lost.
If this is true, then the big variable was the explosion of his value due to the UTA series.
However, I would want to know the specifics of a NYK offer at the deadline. Who reported the 2023 pick? I do not remember that.
(07-02-2022, 02:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I personally do not fault the Mavs for this. They probably didn't see RC as "holding back" JB and didn't expect the jump we all saw this past year.
In retrospect it was a BAD, BAD decision. But in the moment I would have done the same thing.
Naw...Rick Carlisle should have given JB more chances. I get that the focus was on developing the true Super Star...but Rick fumbled on JB, imo.