MavsBoard

(06-30-2022, 11:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]How did he get pantsed? What did you expect Nico to do?

Be able to get a meeting with Jalen.

(06-30-2022, 11:21 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Be able to get a meeting with Jalen.

By force? If JB had already decided and refused, then what do you want a person to do? 

Rick Brunson and Rose tampered the crap out of this and JB followed family and a childhood dream to NYK. I think it is unrealistic to think Nico failed here.

(06-30-2022, 11:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]How did he get pantsed? What did you expect Nico to do?

WIN. Period. It's pro sports. You sign the star. You make the right trade. You lie, cheat, steal, murder, whatever. You WIN. 

If what you're saying is true, that the kid was going to the Knicks no matter what, then the Mavs (general, if it's easier for you) should've played the permutations (all of them) in their heads, thought 6 moves ahead, and made a choice that didn't result in them losing their second best player while being over the LT threshold. I'm sorry, there is literally no way you can convince me that this isn't their fault, much less that we should be angry with a 24 year old following his dreams and getting what he deserves. I think the criticism of Durant tonight is right on the money. But Brunson did everything he owed the Mavericks to do, and he did it 110%. 

Do I think they can make a couple of smart moves now to mitigate the situation? Sure. Do I expect them to pull that off? I don't know, maybe. But, this is irrelevant when analyzing this situation.

(06-30-2022, 11:23 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]By force? If JB had already decided and refused, then what do you want a person to do? 

Rick Brunson and Rose tampered the crap out of this and JB followed family and a childhood dream to NYK. I think it is unrealistic to think Nico failed here.

Develop a relationship with him and his camp during his one year tenure that would have granted that curtesy.

(06-30-2022, 11:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]WIN. Period. It's pro sports. You sign the star. You make the right trade. You lie, cheat, steal, murder, whatever. You WIN. 

If what you're saying is true, that the kid was going to the Knicks no matter what, then the Mavs (general, if it's easier for you) should've played the permutations (all of them) in their heads, thought 6 moves ahead, and made a choice that didn't result in them losing their second best player while being over the LT threshold. I'm sorry, there is literally no way you can convince me that this isn't their fault, much less that we should be angry with a 24 year old following his dreams and getting what he deserves. I think the criticism of Durant tonight is right on the money. Brunson did everything he owed the Mavericks to do, and he did it 110%. 

Do I think they can make a couple of smart moves now to mitigate the situation? Sure. Do I expect them to pull that off? I don't know, maybe. But, this is irrelevant when analyzing this situation.

Well I disagree with "win at all costs" so we part ways there.

I personally think the Mavs did ONE thing wrong: structure JB's original deal so he would not be a RFA at the end. That's it. They failed there, four years ago. Otherwise it was out of their control.

(06-30-2022, 11:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Develop a relationship with him in his camp during his one year tenure that would have granted that curtesy.

Wonder if he tried repeatedly for months and the Brunson family refused?

Brunson is supposed to show loyality when the Mavs refused to extend him and included him multiple trade offers. Don´t look at external factors or act like it is just bad luck. It´s bad decision making. Bad player evaluation. Bad cap management. Bad asset management.

(06-30-2022, 11:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Develop a relationship with him in his camp during his one year tenure that would have granted that curtesy.

Right. Or, in lieu of that, be intuitive enough about your players to see this coming and dump his ass before it's a showdown with the life or death of your team's near future on the line. 

The bottom line for me is that if you can't keep your own hot commodity free agents, who you drafted and developed, then something at some point is wrong. Maybe it's the catering, for all I know. But if so, Cuban needs to fire the caterers (I'm being ridiculous to make a point). 

Like @"F Gump" reminds us often: Cuban is the bottom line.

(06-30-2022, 11:27 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder if he tried repeatedly for months and the Brunson family refused?

Again, my hopes is he'd be better at the relationship game.  That doesn't happen to our other maligned Dallas franchise owner.

(06-30-2022, 11:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Right. Or, in lieu of that, be intuitive enough about your players to see this coming and dump his ass before it's a showdown with the life or death of your team's near future on the line. 

So you wanted Nico to trade JB last summer, right after he arrived? Because I have seen speculation that no one would take JB in a trade once the season started. Nico saw the writing on the wall and TRIED to trade him the reports indicate, but everyone knew he would be a rental.

By the way. Drafting Brunson was all Donnie. He had the Rick Brunson, Leon/Sam Rose connections.

“I was in the draft room when [former general manager] Donnie [Nelson] made the decision,” Procopio tells me. “He had to have him and wasn’t taking no for an answer. He repeatedly said he’s a winner about 30 times before the team drafted him. Which took a lot of guts because the head coach actively wanted Yogi Ferrell, and he went against the grain to draft him.”

So I am not blaming Donnie for the Brunson drama. Picking him was one of his best moves in the post championship era. Not extending him or trading him when they realized that he wanted to leave is on the current regime.

So would Mitchell have been a better pick for the Mavs even if JB is better?

(06-30-2022, 11:33 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]By the way. Drafting Brunson was all Donnie. He had the Rick Brunson, Leon/Sam Rose connections.

“I was in the draft room when [former general manager] Donnie [Nelson] made the decision,” Procopio tells me. “He had to have him and wasn’t taking no for an answer. He repeatedly said he’s a winner about 30 times before the team drafted him. Which took a lot of guts because the head coach actively wanted Yogi Ferrell, and he went against the grain to draft him.”

So I am not blaming Donnie for the Brunson drama. Picking him was one of his best moves in the post championship era. Not extending him or trading him when they realized that he wanted to leave is on the current regime.

We sure Donnie didn't poison the Brunson camp against the Mavs on his way out??

(06-30-2022, 11:33 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]By the way. Drafting Brunson was all Donnie. He had the Rick Brunson, Leon/Sam Rose connections.

“I was in the draft room when [former general manager] Donnie [Nelson] made the decision,” Procopio tells me. “He had to have him and wasn’t taking no for an answer. He repeatedly said he’s a winner about 30 times before the team drafted him. Which took a lot of guts because the head coach actively wanted Yogi Ferrell, and he went against the grain to draft him.”

So I am not blaming Donnie for the Brunson drama. Picking him was one of his best moves in the post championship era. Not extending him or trading him when they realized that he wanted to leave is on the current regime.

Agree with most of this.  However, I think Brunson owes Donnie several million for not structuring the contract correctly.  This wasn't an oversight.  It was a point of negotiation and Rose was smart to get the deal structured the way it was.

(06-30-2022, 11:31 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So you wanted Nico to trade JB last summer, right after he arrived? Because I have seen speculation that no one would take JB in a trade once the season started. Nico saw the writing on the wall and TRIED to trade him the reports indicate, but everyone knew he would be a rental.

You're not hearing me. 

Of course someone "would take" him. I have no doubt that they tried to trade him, but didn't get it done. Probably didn't like the deals on the table, fine. 

But this is PRO SPORTS. The goal is to WIN. To win on the court, you need to win on the phones, at the negotiation table, in the press, on the talking head shows, in the advertising world, selling suites at the arena, etc, etc, etc. 

I DO NOT CARE about the excuses that led us to this place. I only care that being at this place, here and now, is damaging to the team's competitive prospects in the near future and might have effects on the team that last much longer than we can now imagine. 

The Mavs need a front office that doesn't TRY. They need to start SUCCEEDING. Maybe you're right, and maybe it's all in the process of improving. I honestly don't know the answer to that right now, and as you know, I liked a great of what they've done recently. I think that Porzingis deal was one of the more realistic, mature, business like decisions this franchise has ever made. But this Brunson thing SUCKS. It's not ok.

(06-30-2022, 11:20 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]There is a lesson here for Nico on contract structure if nothing else.  Can he learn from the previous MBT's mistake?

The disheartening thing from my perspective is that I'd hoped Kidd/Nico would be a lot better at the relationship and recruiting game than Donnie and Rick.  I don't think we've seen evidence of that improvement.  The Jalen bridge was probably burned long before Nico was hired.

There is so much truth in this. The Jalen bridge was definitely burned before Kidd and Nico. No doubt there. There are going to be growing pains with them too. Nico has never been a GM. Even great GMs make mistakes. Nico has never been a GM. So, I'm hoping he learns fast.

(06-30-2022, 11:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]We sure Donnie didn't poison the Brunson camp against the Mavs on his way out??

I would be shocked if he didn't, but don't you see that this is a notch in the "Cuban is at fault" column???

This franchise has been CRAZY, and we all know it. How did it get so bad??? 

HE IS THE OWNER.

(06-30-2022, 11:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]HE IS THE OWNER.

That's not going to change though, bro.  Just have to hope those around him can overcome or something happens that makes him reevaluate his involvement.

(06-30-2022, 11:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]We sure Donnie didn't poison the Brunson camp against the Mavs on his way out??

Would be less concerned about external influence. More concerned about the internal problems that lead to exits like Donnie´s or JB´s.  Mavs can continue to blame others. Complain about tampering. Whatever.
Or they can finally address the elephant in the room and figure out why messed up situations like this happen as frequently as they do.

(06-30-2022, 11:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You're not hearing me. 

Of course someone "would take" him. I have no doubt that they tried to trade him, but didn't get it done. Probably didn't like the deals on the table, fine. 

But this is PRO SPORTS. The goal is to WIN. To win on the court, you need to win on the phones, at the negotiation table, in the press, on the talking head shows, in the advertising world, selling suites at the arena, etc, etc, etc. 

I DO NOT CARE about the excuses that led us to this place. I only care that being at this place, here and now, is damaging to the team's competitive prospects in the near future and might have effects on the team that last much longer than we can now imagine. 

The Mavs need a front office that doesn't TRY. They need to start SUCCEEDING. Maybe you're right, and maybe it's all in the process of improving. I honestly don't know the answer to that right now, and as you know, I liked a great of what they've done recently. I think that Porzingis deal was one of the more realistic, mature, business like decisions this franchise has ever made. But this Brunson thing SUCKS. It's not ok.

I totally get where you are coming from. I'm hoping that Nico is good at being a GM. The realistic part of it is that Nico has never done this before. He's going to make mistakes. Unfortunately, when you have a franchise altering star like Luka you don't have time to make mistakes and learn from it.

My biggest fear with Nico is that it's similar to Kidd when he started coaching in Brooklyn. I have no doubt at this point that Kidd is a great coach that will only get better. His last few years have shown that. However, he went through some really rough years early on. Are we going to get that from Nico for a few years before he becomes good? That's the only fear I have besides does Cuban actually let him do his job. Only time will tell.