(06-29-2022, 12:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Probably 5/$140 (assuming the contract has yearly raises) would be more on par with what the Knicks are offering except with the additional year and if an overpay is needed, 5/$150 is probably what Dallas would need to offer for the money whip, if not more. 4/$120 if Jalen wanted a shorter contract to get to his next contract sooner though I guess that could be accomplished with options on the 5 year as well.
Another thing being missed right now is that Jason Kidd is a HOF PG. If he thought Brunson was as indispensable as people on this forum do as a player or an asset...he would be going to bat for JB to get paid. I'm telling you guys that this is the Knicks doing Knick things.
I love Brunson but he is more like a Derrick Fisher type PG. Once teams start game planning for him he will look overpaid. He's a good player so he will adjust and learn to work around it. But, he's not going to go to NY and look like a superstar that got away.
(06-29-2022, 01:07 PM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing being missed right now is that Jason Kidd is a HOF PG. If he thought Brunson was as indispensable as people on this forum do as a player or an asset...he would be going to bat for JB to get paid. I'm telling you guys that this is the Knicks doing Knick things.
I love Brunson but he is more like a Derrick Fisher type PG. Once teams start game planning for him he will look overpaid. He's a good player so he will adjust and learn to work around it. But, he's not going to go to NY and look like a superstar that got away.
Time will tell but I think trying to pin point this to any one reason is a folly.
-Jalen probably had earnest intentions of resigning.
-Jalen "wanted what Luka has" with no potential of having that in Dallas
-The Mavs "low balled" him at ~$22m per.
-Mavs knew there was a "fit" problem with Luka and Jalen and probably had a number they didn't want to exceed because of that on court conflict.
-Knicks doing Knicks things to blow Jalen away with a massive offer.
-Jalen has family ties to that are and now to the Knicks since they hired his dad.
-Being recruited is a great feeling.
-Probably felt underappreciated by the Mavs with how his contract had been handled historically
(06-29-2022, 01:21 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Time will tell but I think trying to pin point this to any one reason is a folly.
-Jalen probably had earnest intentions of resigning.
-Jalen "wanted what Luka has" with no potential of having that in Dallas
-The Mavs "low balled" him at ~$22m per.
-Mavs knew there was a "fit" problem with Luka and Jalen and probably had a number they didn't want to exceed because of that on court conflict.
-Knicks doing Knicks things to blow Jalen away with a massive offer.
-Jalen has family ties to that are and now to the Knicks since they hired his dad.
-Being recruited is a great feeling.
-Probably felt underappreciated by the Mavs with how his contract had been handled historically
I think these are all good points and contributing factors. I think another reason is that Jalen knew that if he signed with the Mavs then he would most likely be traded in 1-2 years based on the "fit" issues you described.
(06-29-2022, 01:07 PM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]he would be going to bat for JB to get paid.
How do you know he didn't? It's clear they wanted Brunson back, so it wasn't that they didn't believe the player was a fit or the right guy to invest in. They simply backed off of the sticker price.
The coach AND general manager BOTH went to bat for Steve Nash back in the day. Did it matter?
(06-29-2022, 01:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know he didn't? It's clear they wanted Brunson back, so it wasn't that they didn't believe the player was a fit or the right guy to invest in. They simply backed off of the sticker price.
The coach AND general manager BOTH went to bat for Steve Nash back in the day. Did it matter?
Agreed. And maybe Dallas agreed to come up on there number and match the Knicks numbers but were told it wouldn't matter.
(06-29-2022, 01:25 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]I think these are all good points and contributing factors. I think another reason is that Jalen knew that if he signed with the Mavs then he would most likely be traded in 1-2 years based on the "fit" issues you described.
Valid too. Luka is the only untouchable and based on the Mavs history, no one should feel safe.
(06-29-2022, 01:28 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. And maybe Dallas agreed to come up on there number and match the Knicks numbers but were told it wouldn't matter.
It's true that we don't know some things, but I don't think those "maybes" are equivalent, since there are multiple people reporting the range that Dallas was comfortable offering. Even Skin said he was 99% sure he knew how high Dallas was willing to go, despite not reporting the number. That implies there was an upper limit.
No word, whatsoever on what Kidd thinks of this situation. He might or might not be understanding of the front office's thought process, but I think it's insane to suggest he didn't want Brunson now that Brunson is walking.
Money being so big is one thing, but I think his Dad being on the Knicks now is huge.
Knowing how close they are, I was feeling he would have a hard time getting the opportunity to be coached by his Dad in the NBA and turning that down.
So, in the end, there may not have been much the Mavs could do once they hired Pops.
(06-29-2022, 01:31 PM)LifeAquatic Wrote: [ -> ]Money being so big is one thing, but I think his Dad being on the Knicks now is huge.
Knowing how close they are, I was feeling he would have a hard time getting the opportunity to be coached by his Dad in the NBA and turning that down.
So, in the end, there may not have been much the Mavs could do once they hired Pops.
If we're looking at it from that angle, the connection that matters more to me is:
A) his former agent is the big cheese in NY
B) his current agent is the son of that big cheese
This had to have been the easiest tamper in the history of the NBA.
(06-29-2022, 01:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]It's true that we don't know some things, but I don't think those "maybes" are equivalent, since there are multiple people reporting the range that Dallas was comfortable offering. Even Skin said he was 99% sure he knew how high Dallas was willing to go, despite not reporting the number. That implies there was an upper limit.
No one knows how the negotiations went down though.
-Mavs had a number to present.
-Knicks had a number to present.
-Agent tells the Mavs that matching isn't good enough for Jalen and would need to be blown away which might have been a non-starter for the Mavs to come up off their initial number.
And while I think there is a ton to be critical of the Mavs in this situation, having a valuation on a player and then letting him walk because someone blew your doors off is something I'm not going to criticize. Maybe Jalen continues to exceed expectations and makes that contract look like a bargain. Time will tell but I'm not going to fault them for being pragmatic.
(06-29-2022, 01:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]This had to have been the easiest tamper in the history of the NBA.
Understatement of the century to me.
Only apt retribution in my mind would be to strip the Knicks of 3 FRP. I'd go further by breaking the CBA and make them pay Jalen the full 5/175 max with a no-trade clause.
(06-29-2022, 01:31 PM)LifeAquatic Wrote: [ -> ]Money being so big is one thing, but I think his Dad being on the Knicks now is huge.
Knowing how close they are, I was feeling he would have a hard time getting the opportunity to be coached by his Dad in the NBA and turning that down.
So, in the end, there may not have been much the Mavs could do once they hired Pops.
I can already see that locker room bonding. Surely egos won’t get in the way in NY. The high priced FA and his dad coaching won’t ruffle any feathers.
(06-29-2022, 01:36 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Understatement of the century to me.
Only apt retribution in my mind would be to strip the Knicks of 3 FRP. I'd go further by breaking the CBA and make them pay Jalen the full 5/175 max with a no-trade clause.
It just shows how dumb the rules are and need to be rethought or abolished.
If Brunson had accepted that original extension of $14 per or whatever, he would be spending his days as a Mav feeling bitter and always being mentioned in trades. I'm glad he got paid at least.
(06-29-2022, 01:38 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]It just shows how dumb the rules are and need to be rethought or abolished.
On the bright side, there are certainly indications that Dallas has thrown its hat in with the tamperers in recent years. I don't know if it's doing any good, but at least we know they can ignore the rules as well as the rest of them.
(06-29-2022, 01:40 PM)BoredAssistant Wrote: [ -> ]I'm glad he got paid at least.
Oh, for sure!
Count me among those who feel he's well worth this contract, and I'm happy for his success. He's such a fine young man - nobody deserves it more. I just wish he didn't have to go and try to hold the Knicks on his back in exchange for it. But then again, that's the kind of responsibility that comes with wealth like that, I suppose.
(06-29-2022, 01:40 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]On the bright side, there are certainly indications that Dallas has thrown its hat in with the tamperers in recent years. I don't know if it's doing any good, but at least we know they can ignore the rules as well as the rest of them.
I still think Cuban and company are pretty far behind the curve of the modern NBA recruiting. He was so forward thinking when he got the team with improving amenities for both the home and away team. Stuff like hiring Jalen's dad is becoming more of the norm these days. Remember LeBron and his entourage feeling disrespected by the Cavs? I guess upgrading chairs and locker rooms is far less expensive though.
(06-29-2022, 01:25 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]I think these are all good points and contributing factors. I think another reason is that Jalen knew that if he signed with the Mavs then he would most likely be traded in 1-2 years based on the "fit" issues you described.
This is an important point.
The FO didn’t offer the extension pre TDL that according to dad, JB would have been open to signing.
Then Mavs try and talk post TDL and it’s too late. Some of that may be JB feeling he had played his way into bigger money. But JB and his team also aren’t stupid and the timing of Mavs willingness to talk as it pertains to the TDL made it abundantly clear Jalen was a potential trade piece to them. At 4/$55 JB had to know he would be on the move before that contract ran out.
They had two options in January…extend him or don’t extend him and trade him. They did neither and now sit here with nothing to show for a huge development win and key cog on a WCF team. Thats embarrassing.
(06-29-2022, 01:21 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Time will tell but I think trying to pin point this to any one reason is a folly.
-Jalen probably had earnest intentions of resigning.
-Jalen "wanted what Luka has" with no potential of having that in Dallas
-The Mavs "low balled" him at ~$22m per.
-Mavs knew there was a "fit" problem with Luka and Jalen and probably had a number they didn't want to exceed because of that on court conflict.
-Knicks doing Knicks things to blow Jalen away with a massive offer.
-Jalen has family ties to that are and now to the Knicks since they hired his dad.
-Being recruited is a great feeling.
-Probably felt underappreciated by the Mavs with how his contract had been handled historically
Hard to see how this complies with the anti-tampering rules. Jalen and NY agree on specific numbers 2 days before they can speak? Mavs resigned to losing him 2 days before anyone else can communicate with him? Wild.
(06-29-2022, 01:58 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Hard to see how this complies with the anti-tampering rules. Jalen and NY agree on specific numbers 2 days before they can speak? Mavs resigned to losing him 2 days before anyone else can communicate with him? Wild.
It's absolutely tampering.
(06-29-2022, 01:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know he didn't? It's clear they wanted Brunson back, so it wasn't that they didn't believe the player was a fit or the right guy to invest in. They simply backed off of the sticker price.
The coach AND general manager BOTH went to bat for Steve Nash back in the day. Did it matter?
Don't get me wrong. I can't stand Cuban for the reasons you laid out. They are many. Kidd may have tried to keep him. I don't have the answers to that. I just have a feeling that the group as a whole didn't believe enough to pay Knick money for JB. There are just a lot of pieces we don't have info for.
I feel like the mistake was made a year ago. This is just the fallout of that. They should have either put him on a 4/$55 contract when they had the chance or traded him at the deadline.