(06-30-2022, 12:34 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]Well, since the Mavs apparently offered 5/106, even with an incomplete analysis taking only one tax/fee/charge into account, the Mavs numbers don’t add up. I wonder if the Mavs are serious at all? The next test of competence will be converting this into a sign and trade and salvaging a decent asset. If they can’t even manage that, the the Mavs are just chumps.
Correct, this is using the assumption the Mavs will now offer 5/125, which was reported as the number it would take to retain him.
(06-30-2022, 12:07 PM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas never had any interest in JB being here long term, signed or not signed. He is the first piece dangled in any trade talks, confirmation that he was offered in the package of picks to try and get Haliburton, just about confirms it IMO. If they played their cards right, they have a very appetising JB on an attractive contract that they move the first opportunity they get. They stuffed that up, but bottom line is, I don't think anyone at the Mavs wanted JB here long term, they will just wished they had locked him up sooner and cheaper so they could be at the table for deals for better players than they will now.
It was a bad situation the Mavs put themselves in, but they lost a trade asset and not a long term piece plain and simple IMO. JB was never going to stay in Dallas one way or the other.
This is very insightful.
From Brunson's POV, if Dallas is only signing him to be a useful trade chip (and you make great points that such is likely their thinking), why sign here when he can get more elsewhere? Why make himself an even easier player to trade? If he's looking for a home and a team to grow with, it takes TWO sides to be committed.
FWIW, Nash left for basically the same reason.
BTW, the "tax savings" angle is a meaningless comparison when you are likely to be traded as soon as the ink is dry on the deal. The trade might send you to some high-tax-state team, so you'd better be attached to the best contract you can get.
If the Mavs (Cuban) are serious about a Hail Mary attempt with JB, I would imagine the deal would have to include as prohibitive of a trade bonus as possible. JB isn't eligible for a NTC, so the trade kicker would be his only course of action to deter the Mavs continuing to look to ship him out....well that and a much bigger salary number.
I believe Jalen when he says he loves his teammates. I understand his desire to run his own team, but also believe he sees the huge value of playing with a guy like Luka. JB played on a Villanova team with more NBA talent than your average college roster. He knows he benefits from being on the court with Luka and is also clearly the guy when Luka is off the court.
Things still seem to point strongly toward NY. I just think the only real hope is the Mavs FO repairing what may be a damaged relationship with JB, based on the extension failure and the fact that JB was always the name that seemed to come up as a trade piece. A big trade bonus could be the last angle for Dallas that proves they want him here for the long haul.
(06-30-2022, 01:07 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]BTW, the "tax savings" angle is a meaningless comparison when you are likely to be traded as soon as the ink is dry on the deal. The trade might send you to some high-tax-state team, so you'd better be attached to the best contract you can get.
I was thinking about same thing.
Superstars might care because teams won't trade them, but those who aren't big names know "it is just a business" and they can be traded
(06-30-2022, 01:07 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]BTW, the "tax savings" angle is a meaningless comparison when you are likely to be traded as soon as the ink is dry on the deal. The trade might send you to some high-tax-state team, so you'd better be attached to the best contract you can get.
No doubt. But if I'm presenting a comparison to Brunson I'm laying it all out there. Cost of living and tax savings being in my favor. Ultimately, he won't care - who worries about paying the tax on winning lottery ticket.
(06-30-2022, 01:07 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]BTW, the "tax savings" angle is a meaningless comparison when you are likely to be traded as soon as the ink is dry on the deal. The trade might send you to some high-tax-state team, so you'd better be attached to the best contract you can get.
Meaningless is an a bit of an overstatement as you could use the potential of a trade to more easily justify a trade kicker to offset the loss.
There we go, incentivize extra salary in the deal (make an allstar team, make the finals, etc) and add a trade kicker, offer a declining salary contract 5/125.
(06-30-2022, 01:00 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]This is very insightful.
From Brunson's POV, if Dallas is only signing him to be a useful trade chip (and you make great points that such is likely their thinking), why sign here when he can get more elsewhere? Why make himself an even easier player to trade? If he's looking for a home and a team to grow with, it takes TWO sides to be committed.
FWIW, Nash left for basically the same reason.
Agreed, but all the more reason to trade him at the deadline. Maybe NY new they were getting him at that point and didn't offer much at the deadline. Maybe Brunson knew he was going to NY and had no intention of signing an extension that makes him a valuable trade chip and likely gets him sent somewhere he does not want to go. If these are all true, then the FO did not have a lot of options.
(06-30-2022, 01:32 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]There we go, incentivize extra salary in the deal (make an allstar team, make the finals, etc) and add a trade kicker, offer a declining salary contract 5/125.
I still think a declining salary structure sends the wrong message and makes Jalen feel like someone the Mavs are always going to look to upgrade via trade. And while that's probably the reality, it's not a message you want broadcast so freely. Maybe you can sell it as wanting to have space to build around him and Luka but there seems to be too much history of dangling Jalen in trades.
(06-30-2022, 01:24 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]No doubt. But if I'm presenting a comparison to Brunson I'm laying it all out there. Cost of living and tax savings being in my favor. Ultimately, he won't care - who worries about paying the tax on winning lottery ticket.
On the other hand the marketing opportunities in NY outweigh the tax benefits in Texas. I think we'd have to go higher than 5/125 to get him to stay
(06-30-2022, 01:37 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]On the other hand the marketing opportunities in NY outweigh the tax benefits in Texas. I think we'd have to go higher than 5/125 to get him to stay
Valid and I think you'd need to exceed 5/125 just based on Jalen's desires for his role on the team.
(06-30-2022, 01:36 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I still think a declining salary structure sends the wrong message and makes Jalen feel like someone the Mavs are always going to look to upgrade via trade. And while that's probably the reality, it's not a message you want broadcast so freely.
Do the incentives and trade kicker not help speak to the opposite? Basically says if we do trade you there is as good a reason as any team would trade you with a raising salary, you just get paid well to do it. Think of it this way, we’re giving him a signing bonus to back pay his previous worth. Our benefit to that is we can possibly get you better teammates to help push you over the hump as yours snd THJ’s age!
(06-30-2022, 01:42 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Do the incentives and trade kicker not help speak to the opposite? Basically says if we do trade you there is as good a reason as any team would trade you with a raising salary, you just get paid well to do it. Think of it this way, we’re giving him a signing bonus to back pay his previous worth. Our benefit to that is we can possibly get you better teammates to help push you over the hump as yours snd THJ’s age!
With all the reports that have come out and how we've handled Jalen's contract situation in the past, I'd just be careful. I loved getting yearly raises at work and it's why I do that for my employees now. The money is a different stratosphere but Jalen's still human. Maybe he doesn't look at it this way but a descending structure makes you easier to trade with every year that passes. While I love the descending structure, my offer to Jalen would be ascending, with a trade kicker and give him a player option on the final year of the deal.