(09-05-2020, 01:36 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-04-2020, 04:55 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]By no metrics is Wright an impact defender. A passable one yes, maybe slightly over average. You can tell that this team is really lacking defense if we're throwing around the term impact defender to describe Delon Wright. Our defensive rating in the Clippers series was 121.4 as a team, that's only the 4th worst defensive single season playoff performance of all time and doesn't happen to a team that doesn't have a problem with doesn't have trouble finding defensive players
I agree with your assessment of the team, but not of Wright. I think he IS an impact player, but due to him being an insanely poor fit on offense, he was literally unplayable. An impact defender can't impact the game from the bench, which is where Wright was in the Clippers series.
Maybe I'm missing your point. If your message is that Wright isn't good enough to make a defensive impact from the bench, then yes, I agree completely. But it seems like you're using the Clippers series to support an argument that Wright isn't an impact defender, which seems odd since he played a total of 53 minutes in that series.
And, to be clear, I'm not claiming that Carlisle should've played him. I wouldn't have given him as many chances as he got this season, to be honest, and I'm in no way attempting to make the claim that his acquisition was a success. But, when he got those chances, I do think he demonstrated a high capability on one side of the floor.
(09-04-2020, 11:54 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Bucks fans have to be sick...that core is awful. Middleton and Bledsoe are not good and they are being paid a lot of money for a lot of years. If Giannis shows loyalty and takes the money to re-sign, he better understand that there won't be any championships.
Yes, Giannis has lots of flaws and will continue to improve, just like any franchise player at 26. But his supporting cast is not going to improve very much.
At least when the Mavs started fizzling out under Avery's run, Josh Howard and Devin Harris were still young and had trade value. Bledsoe and Middleton are older and good luck getting anyone to trade for those contracts.
My dude isn't re-signing in Milwaukee, people.
Can anyone honestly give me one name that will be more attractive in 2021 than Luka to a dude like that? Honest question. I get it - Fish sold us all on 5 years worth of click bait BS that, if we were using our brains, we would've swatted back at him Dikembe Motumbo style. But, in this case? I honestly believe Luka and the Mavs are going to have their pick.
Have been saying this for sometime. Giannis to Mavs is a real possibility.
We will have 22 years old Luka to entice him, our previous plan powder had who? 34+ Dirk? 20 years old Luka after rookie year and 3 no playoffs?
Will he join the team that knocked him out over us? When the best they have is 32 years old Butler?
The worst that can happen to a super star legacy is leave your team and still fail to win rings, like Melo & Howard. You are suddenly a teir 2 super star. Giannis won't have the privilege to think about the market size, the city etc. Only if he can win
Honestly, we are just the perfect fit for him.
Someone in another board said it best, Luka and Giannis can be the the next Magic & Kareem
(09-05-2020, 01:36 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]
My dude isn't re-signing in Milwaukee, people.
Can anyone honestly give me one name that will be more attractive in 2021 than Luka to a dude like that? Honest question. I get it - Fish sold us all on 5 years worth of click bait BS that, if we were using our brains, we would've swatted back at him Dikembe Motumbo style. But, in this case? I honestly believe Luka and the Mavs are going to have their pick.
Two questions:
1. What do you do if you are Milwaukee and he doesn't sign his extension this "summer"? Trade him then? Trade him at the TDL? Wait until he's UFA and can walk for free hoping you can convince him to stay? What if he pulls an AD and professes his love for a single franchise? I'm having a hard time picturing a trade scenario unless we are the only game in town because GA has said "I want to play with Luka". Even NO got a pretty decent haul for Davis. What, outside of KP does our package look like if this is a trade? I see Dallas having a much better chance at this if he signs here as a FA. How do you let that happen if you are Milwaukee.
2. This is probably more for our non-US based posters. Part of the issue with stayingin Milwaukee is that it hinders a player's ability to build his brand (think like GA's agent here for a moment). In the US, there is a perception that a players brand is enhanced by playing in NY or LA. Miami has lifestyle benefits and frankly a history of success largely because of it. On a global basis (and GA and Luka are global icons), does the US market make a difference? Is Dallas any better than Milwaukee? Is Dallas any worse than NY or LA? Or, like Jordan, is it the player that matters no matter where he plays. Does the fact that Dirk played here help? Surely in Europe, but Asia?
(09-05-2020, 07:00 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What do you do if you are Milwaukee and he doesn't sign his extension this "summer"? Trade him then? Trade him at the TDL? Wait until he's UFA and can walk for free hoping you can convince him to stay?
I think you have to try for the title, no matter what. They are not far. I mean, what is it worth to have a bunch of picks if you are eternally rebuilding. If he wants to go, you at least try to get him do a SnT, for good ol times sake.
Giannis needs to shoot better to be worthy of Luka and the Mavs.
He basically would be an expensive DP.
Seriously, he and Luka would be nigh unstoppable, I just get the feeling Mr. Freak will be loyal to the Bucks.
(09-05-2020, 07:00 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What, outside of KP does our package look like if this is a trade?
I think you answered your own question. IMO, the obvious trade is KP for Giannis straight-up. As much as I like the idea of a big-3 assembled in '21, if Giannis is available via trade in the next few months and amenable to immediately extending in Dallas, I'd make that trade without hesitation. As we've experienced in 2020, a lot can happen in a year. So when that opportunity presents itself you shouldn't over-think it. Take the superior player and use the same financial flexibility we're thinking about now to fill out the roster around your two young MVPs.
Followup question: If Milwaukee does look to trade Giannis this offseason, what team can top that deal and offer the Bucks a better opportunity to continue to contend for the next 4 years? And who can do it without gutting their own rosters in the process?
(09-05-2020, 10:40 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2020, 07:00 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What, outside of KP does our package look like if this is a trade?
I think you answered your own question. IMO, the obvious trade is KP for Giannis straight-up. As much as I like the idea of a big-3 assembled in '21, if Giannis is available via trade in the next few months and amenable to immediately extending in Dallas, I'd make that trade without hesitation. As we've experienced in 2020, a lot can happen in a year. So when that opportunity presents itself you shouldn't over-think it. Take the superior player and use the same financial flexibility we're thinking about now to fill out the roster around your two young MVPs.
Followup question: If Milwaukee does look to trade Giannis this offseason, what team can top that deal and offer the Bucks a better opportunity to continue to contend for the next 4 years? And who can do it without gutting their own rosters in the process?
KP adds 2 mil to there already 130 mil payroll. Would we not have to take back salary in this transaction?
(09-05-2020, 10:40 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]If Milwaukee does look to trade Giannis this offseason, what team can top that deal and offer the Bucks a better opportunity to continue to contend for the next 4 years? And who can do it without gutting their own rosters in the process?
GSW can offer 2020 2nd pick and 2021 unprotected Minnesota pick (which can quite likely fall into lottery). I guess this is quite nice offer. I am sure Miami would throw Herro, Dunn and Robinson if needed. Atlanta can offer Collins, a bunch of picks and young players. I wouldn't be so sure KP would be the best offer out there.
(09-05-2020, 11:08 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2020, 10:40 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]If Milwaukee does look to trade Giannis this offseason, what team can top that deal and offer the Bucks a better opportunity to continue to contend for the next 4 years? And who can do it without gutting their own rosters in the process?
GSW can offer 2020 2nd pick and 2021 unprotected Minnesota pick (which can quite likely fall into lottery). I guess this is quite nice offer. I am sure Miami would throw Herro, Dunn and Robinson if needed. Atlanta can offer Collins, a bunch of picks and young players. I wouldn't be so sure KP would be the best offer out there.
Damn the GSW's. I bet that offer has already been floated the bucks way.
(09-05-2020, 01:36 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-04-2020, 04:55 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]By no metrics is Wright an impact defender. A passable one yes, maybe slightly over average. You can tell that this team is really lacking defense if we're throwing around the term impact defender to describe Delon Wright. Our defensive rating in the Clippers series was 121.4 as a team, that's only the 4th worst defensive single season playoff performance of all time and doesn't happen to a team that doesn't have a problem with doesn't have trouble finding defensive players
I agree with your assessment of the team, but not of Wright. I think he IS an impact player, but due to him being an insanely poor fit on offense, he was literally unplayable. An impact defender can't impact the game from the bench, which is where Wright was in the Clippers series.
Maybe I'm missing your point. If your message is that Wright isn't good enough to make a defensive impact from the bench, then yes, I agree completely. But it seems like you're using the Clippers series to support an argument that Wright isn't an impact defender, which seems odd since he played a total of 53 minutes in that series.
And, to be clear, I'm not claiming that Carlisle should've played him. I wouldn't have given him as many chances as he got this season, to be honest, and I'm in no way attempting to make the claim that his acquisition was a success. But, when he got those chances, I do think he demonstrated a high capability on one side of the floor.
To be clear about what I mean I just don't think he makes enough of a defensive impact to be called an impact player. In the regular season the on off difference was negligible. He can get some steals here and there and is competent at man to man defense, but he lacks physicality and his team defense has some holes. Pretty much the exact same story when he was in Toronto as well. He's no Marcus Smart is what I'm saying, that's more of the kind of guy at his position I would call an impact defender
I think the impact defender who's so bad on offense he's unplayable tag is more applicable to MKG who is a much better defender than Wright but unplayably bad on offense
Unrelated note, am I really seeing that the Bucks are down 3-0? And people got mad at me for calling Giannis a choker last year... I haven't been watching, is it Giannis' fault?
(09-05-2020, 12:06 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]Unrelated note, am I really seeing that the Bucks are down 3-0? And people got mad at me for calling Giannis a choker last year... I haven't been watching, is it Giannis' fault?
I'd put 75% of the blame on their coach. In all of their games, Giannis has barely cracked 33mpg. He doesn't play his stars, even when they need him most. Bud just refuses to play Giannis more than 36mpg. Which is really really bad when you need Giannis on the court for at least 40mpg.
Plus, their defensive rotations have been poor. They're basically in drop coverage, and forcing Jimmy left. But they don't rotate well once Butler drives in and dishes.
Add on top of Giannis just barreling to the rim over and over and getting called for charges, they are in disarray. Giannis is certainly at fault though. He hasn't been able to score effectively and consistently in the 4th. A lot of that falls on him not being put in the best position to succeed either.
But for the Bucks there is some glimmer. They were a ref whistle away from winning game 2. And they were leading for 95% of game 3 until they collapsed in the 4th. Bucks could've tied it 2-2 pretty easily. But they're down 3-0, and I think they might be too demoralized to claw out of that hole.
(09-05-2020, 12:06 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear about what I mean I just don't think he makes enough of a defensive impact to be called an impact player. In the regular season the on off difference was negligible. He can get some steals here and there and is competent at man to man defense, but he lacks physicality and his team defense has some holes. Pretty much the exact same story when he was in Toronto as well. He's no Marcus Smart is what I'm saying, that's more of the kind of guy at his position I would call an impact defender
I think the impact defender who's so bad on offense he's unplayable tag is more applicable to MKG who is a much better defender than Wright but unplayably bad on offense
Unrelated note, am I really seeing that the Bucks are down 3-0? And people got mad at me for calling Giannis a choker last year... I haven't been watching, is it Giannis' fault?
Fair enough - I thought Wright was actually quite physical on the ball at times this year, and I feel like if he would just shoot when he's open, he might've been a good tool to guard the Dame/CJ/Mitchel/Booker types, though obviously not the Lebron/Kawhi types. It's ok for us to disagree about this, because the resulting observation is the same. It didn't work out.
Agreed on MKG. I'm not even interested in bringing him back.
Giannis isn't taking much heat yet, but he will as soon as they're eliminated. So far, it's all directed at the coach, who doesn't seem to understand many things that go on in today's game. For one thing, he's very anti-switching on defense, which one would think the team with Giannis would be super excited to do. He's also refusing to play his best players, Giannis included, more than 30-36 minutes. In the playoffs. The list could go on and on, but essentially, he's catching the heat, not Giannis.
To me, what's truly wrong with Milwaukee is that they haven't figured out that, although Giannis CAN handle the ball, he shouldn't be the main initiator of the offense. He needs a ball-handling play maker to play with.
Pains me to watch the Raptors embrace being the champs despite unvoluntarily losing the best player in the league, and ultimately that attitude might lead to them landing the big fish in free agency. #Canadian Anti-Powder.
(09-05-2020, 07:36 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Pains me to watch the Raptors embrace being the champs despite unvoluntarily losing the best player in the league, and ultimately that attitude might lead to them landing the big fish in free agency. #Canadian Anti-Powder.
No doubt. Not even attempting to defend the 2011 title, not giving us the chance to watch that group again...this was a huge mistake on Cuban's part.
(09-05-2020, 06:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2020, 12:06 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear about what I mean I just don't think he makes enough of a defensive impact to be called an impact player. In the regular season the on off difference was negligible. He can get some steals here and there and is competent at man to man defense, but he lacks physicality and his team defense has some holes. Pretty much the exact same story when he was in Toronto as well. He's no Marcus Smart is what I'm saying, that's more of the kind of guy at his position I would call an impact defender
I think the impact defender who's so bad on offense he's unplayable tag is more applicable to MKG who is a much better defender than Wright but unplayably bad on offense
Unrelated note, am I really seeing that the Bucks are down 3-0? And people got mad at me for calling Giannis a choker last year... I haven't been watching, is it Giannis' fault?
Fair enough - I thought Wright was actually quite physical on the ball at times this year, and I feel like if he would just shoot when he's open, he might've been a good tool to guard the Dame/CJ/Mitchel/Booker types, though obviously not the Lebron/Kawhi types. It's ok for us to disagree about this, because the resulting observation is the same. It didn't work out.
Agreed on MKG. I'm not even interested in bringing him back.
Giannis isn't taking much heat yet, but he will as soon as they're eliminated. So far, it's all directed at the coach, who doesn't seem to understand many things that go on in today's game. For one thing, he's very anti-switching on defense, which one would think the team with Giannis would be super excited to do. He's also refusing to play his best players, Giannis included, more than 30-36 minutes. In the playoffs. The list could go on and on, but essentially, he's catching the heat, not Giannis.
To me, what's truly wrong with Milwaukee is that they haven't figured how that, although Giannis CAN handle the ball, he shouldn't be the main initiator of the offense. He needs a ball-handling play maker to play with.
That's suppose to be Bledsoe's job. He's been MIA since signing that extension. I would have kept Brogdan and let Bledsoe walk.
(09-04-2020, 10:36 PM)DrMav Wrote: [ -> ]Giannis is going to look really good in blue and white in a couple years. Have Luka run the half court, Giannis run the fast break, and both Giannis and KP anchor the defense and we’ll be raising banners.
Hopefully Giannis will have learned to shoot 3s by that point at least.
Dallas won't be able to afford all 3. KP has a max deal, Giannis will get one a year from now, and Luka's rookie deal will be up in a couple of years. Unless Cuban turns into Jeff Bezos, it ain't happening.
Dear Clippers,
Thanks a ton for making the Mavs look bad tonight.
Idiots.
(09-05-2020, 08:21 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas won't be able to afford all 3. KP has a max deal, Giannis will get one a year from now, and Luka's rookie deal will be up in a couple of years. Unless Cuban turns into Jeff Bezos, it ain't happening.
Mavs would 100% be able to afford all 3. Luka's deal doesn't kick in till 2022-23. Mavs are just 1 Wright trade away from comfortably affording Giannis' max if the cap is estimated to be 115 and they renounce everyone. If the Mavs are in the tax, a team with a core of Luka KP and Giannis would bring so much revenue and value added that the tax would be a drop in the bucket which Cuban would happily pay.
So it's not a question of if the Mavs can afford all 3, it's a matter of if Giannis even wants to come here.
(09-05-2020, 10:23 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Dear Clippers,
Thanks a ton for making the Mavs look bad tonight.
Idiots.
How did the Clips make the Mavs look bad tonight? Cause they lost a game where they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn?
(09-06-2020, 12:03 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2020, 08:21 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas won't be able to afford all 3. KP has a max deal, Giannis will get one a year from now, and Luka's rookie deal will be up in a couple of years. Unless Cuban turns into Jeff Bezos, it ain't happening.
Mavs would 100% be able to afford all 3. Luka's deal doesn't kick in till 2022-23. Mavs are just 1 Wright trade away from comfortably affording Giannis' max if the cap is estimated to be 115 and they renounce everyone. If the Mavs are in the tax, a team with a core of Luka KP and Giannis would bring so much revenue and value added that the tax would be a drop in the bucket which Cuban would happily pay.
So it's not a question of if the Mavs can afford all 3, it's a matter of if Giannis even wants to come here.
Ok, so if you can afford all 3, then the rest of your roster is marginal at best. Giannis will have plenty of suitors, besides Dallas. Then you're hoping you can fill it out with guys that want to play there.
(09-05-2020, 10:23 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Dear Clippers,
Thanks a ton for making the Mavs look bad tonight.
Idiots.
How did the Clips make the Mavs look bad tonight? Cause they lost a game where they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn?
(09-06-2020, 12:03 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2020, 08:21 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas won't be able to afford all 3. KP has a max deal, Giannis will get one a year from now, and Luka's rookie deal will be up in a couple of years. Unless Cuban turns into Jeff Bezos, it ain't happening.
Mavs would 100% be able to afford all 3. Luka's deal doesn't kick in till 2022-23. Mavs are just 1 Wright trade away from comfortably affording Giannis' max if the cap is estimated to be 115 and they renounce everyone. If the Mavs are in the tax, a team with a core of Luka KP and Giannis would bring so much revenue and value added that the tax would be a drop in the bucket which Cuban would happily pay.
So it's not a question of if the Mavs can afford all 3, it's a matter of if Giannis even wants to come here.
Ok, so if you can afford all 3, then the rest of your roster is marginal at best. Giannis will have plenty of suitors, besides Dallas. Then you're hoping you can fill it out with guys that want to play there. Not saying it's not possible, but it will be tough.
(09-05-2020, 10:23 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Dear Clippers,
Thanks a ton for making the Mavs look bad tonight.
Idiots.
How did the Clips make the Mavs look bad tonight? Cause they lost a game where they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn?
Do the Bucks get swept today?
3-20 outside the paint, 20-37 from the line. Yikes Giannis has been a bit shitty.
Matthews bricking threes like a crazy person, while Crowder makes two in a row. Maybe they can both dial it down a bit, or Giannis might think our front office is incompetent.