(09-13-2020, 08:17 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 07:59 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 07:53 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Also what the hell is he supposed to do for Philly? His style does not suit their team at all. 
Well to be honest, Philly style didn't suit them at all, so a change of style might help 
They can also start trading away all defensive players and focus on offense
Other than that I agree, I never really thought D'Antoni style of play can lead to championships. He did come close a couple of times, though
But Embiid in a high-powered fast offense? They might as well load up on courtside oxygen tanks, ACL surgeons and back therapists. Not exactly the Horford and Harris type of game either.
Time to see how good of a coach he is, I guess.
(09-13-2020, 02:15 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs exposed the Clippers and the Nuggets have the talent and depth to make them pay. If we were able to constantly come back from big Clippers leads with Luka + all the bit players, the Nuggets are able to do it easily too. Clippers are in big trouble!
Not really. If they play with intensity and grit for more than a half, they'll beat Denver. They don't have a answer for Joker though. Lately, they get leads and give them up too easily. They had a 3-1 lead over Houston a few years back, and blew that series. Maybe they've stopped listening to Doc. He has to figure in this somehow.
(09-13-2020, 09:06 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 02:15 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs exposed the Clippers and the Nuggets have the talent and depth to make them pay. If we were able to constantly come back from big Clippers leads with Luka + all the bit players, the Nuggets are able to do it easily too. Clippers are in big trouble!
Not really. If they play with intensity and grit for more than a half, they'll beat Denver. They don't have a answer for Joker though. Lately, they get leads and give them up too easily. They had a 3-1 lead over Houston a few years back, and blew that series. Maybe they've stopped listening to Doc. He has to figure in this somehow.
I think they have stopped listening to Doc or perhaps they never did. I stopped listening to Doc years ago. How many times in this series has he been heard saying you have got to play hard. About 100 times. How many times has he come up with a good strategy. To be fair...a few good times. I think his talking points were always overrated. I place him somewhere between 6 and 10 in top coaches, not top 3 as he is given credit for. I am not surprised his players, other than Kawhi, can't seem to keep their focus.
There is another explanation: Their lack of a point guard who can run that team and somewhat, their only moderately quality 5 man. As others have said, they have no answer at all for Yokic. But they have no Luka, Rondo, Lebron, Lowry, Dragic, or even a Jalen Brunson on that team. Kawhi is awesome and Paul George is really good, but who exactly runs that team. No one is my answer. Not from the bench or on the court.
(09-13-2020, 09:06 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 02:15 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs exposed the Clippers and the Nuggets have the talent and depth to make them pay. If we were able to constantly come back from big Clippers leads with Luka + all the bit players, the Nuggets are able to do it easily too. Clippers are in big trouble!
Not really. If they play with intensity and grit for more than a half, they'll beat Denver. They don't have a answer for Joker though. Lately, they get leads and give them up too easily. They had a 3-1 lead over Houston a few years back, and blew that series. Maybe they've stopped listening to Doc. He has to figure in this somehow.
Denver is doing a much better job of slowing the Clippers down defensively though. The Clippers blew our doors off and we had a historically bad defensive performance in that series, and even with that we still managed to steal a couple with great offense and a lack of killer instinct by the Clippers. A lack of killer instinct I suspect will catch up to them either in game 7 or against the Lakers if they win game 7 and prevent the Nuggets from becoming the first team to come back from 3-1 twice in a row
I think we would have really pushed the Clips had KP not been hurt (and also not ejected for no reason). We got to 2-2 with no KP in that 4th game. Trying to make judgements for 2 other games with no KP is really not giving the Mavs full credit. KP is our second best player and would have had a major impact on those games.
I think Hou gets a couple bigger guys in the offseason to help RoCo and Tucker out and at the request of the new coach and then when that doesn’t work they realize Harden is the problem and tear it down. That’s my prediction.
(09-14-2020, 02:35 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I think Hou gets a couple bigger guys in the offseason to help RoCo and Tucker out and at the request of the new coach and then when that doesn’t work they realize Harden is the problem and tear it down. That’s my prediction.
The Rockets are always creative but they sent like 4 1's for Westbrook? I know he was terrible, I didn't watch him play but considering your options I might still try to give it another year. Gordon's contract is also bad. Tucker and Covington are good players and assets but they might have to give one of those up to swap for another guy.
Maybe you could swap him for John Wall who has his own terrible deal? The Sixers are desperate and have giant contracts but I don't think they are desperate enough for Westbrook.
There are still bad teams desperate for talent so I think a straight dump of Westbrook is not impossible altho you would likely take a hit to your overall talent.
If you are Detroit and you suck every year why not just take 2 bad contracts and be a good team? You already have Griffin. If I am them and I want to make the playoffs I could get Westbrook probably for nothing and 1 other overpaid player like Wiggins and just see what happens. Make the playoffs at least. If you had Griffin, Westbrook, Wiggins and Rose and they stay healthy you would at least be in the playoffs in the East.
(09-14-2020, 04:29 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]If you are Detroit and you suck every year why not just take 2 bad contracts and be a good team? You already have Griffin. If I am them and I want to make the playoffs I could get Westbrook probably for nothing and 1 other overpaid player like Wiggins and just see what happens. Make the playoffs at least. If you had Griffin, Westbrook, Wiggins and Rose and they stay healthy you would at least be in the playoffs in the East.
You are continously under wrong impression that wanna be contending teams will just dump bad contracts for nothing. They will not. They want contributers back and they are prepared to pay picks for it. So, if Houston is trading Westbrook, it will be because they are rebuilding (picks and/or young players back) or because they want to get better (better fitting players). Houston of course have a problem, because they have no assets left to trade for really better players. In Philly case, they have about one or two years window to make it happen with Embiid/Simmons. So Horford will only be traded for better fitting player and Philly will happily pay picks to make it happen.
You are also continusly wrong that bad teams will be just dumping decent players on bad salaries (like Wright+Jackson for Bledsoe if he gets traded). They will not do that, unless they receive a pick. They have no motivation to do it. It is better for them to run it one year, increase his stats and decrease how bad contract is with one year less on it. Like OKC did with Paul.
The only exceptions when salary dumps might happen are if someone wants to clear cap space because he wants to sign good players or if someone wants to avoid tax. What we don't know is the effect of Covid economic crisis. Teams are losing money and it may lead to some decisions we haven't seen in the last years. However, no rumors of owners in trouble have been circulated yet. Only one case, where possibility that picks will be sold for cash was mentioned.
@"omahen" we will see. There are certainly some contract swapping that will happen. I don't think Westbrook will get dumped for nothing because Houston needs talent back. Same with Sixers and all their bad contracts. I don't disagree that good teams will not dump even overpaid players for nothing.
I was thinking if the Rox were desperate to just unload Westbrook's contract they probably could but I really don't see a scenario where they get picks. I think they will get flawed players back in any deal.
As for Bledsoe I don't really know what his market value is. I know the Bucks need to move him but like any good team they can't take a talent hit either. If OKC has no use for Bledsoe then maybe they would move him for smaller pieces? His contract is a problem but it only takes one team that's desperate for talent.
I take your point that even players we think "suck" and have negative value, probably have more value in the market and Bledsoe, who is an accomplished player could be that. I am interested to see what happens. Last summer there weren't as many bad contracts floating around and this year there are a bunch.
We should also consider that guys like THJ who we think have no value outside of an expiring contract ALSO have more value in the marketplace than fans might believe.
(09-14-2020, 10:20 AM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 09:06 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 02:15 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs exposed the Clippers and the Nuggets have the talent and depth to make them pay. If we were able to constantly come back from big Clippers leads with Luka + all the bit players, the Nuggets are able to do it easily too. Clippers are in big trouble!
Not really. If they play with intensity and grit for more than a half, they'll beat Denver. They don't have a answer for Joker though. Lately, they get leads and give them up too easily. They had a 3-1 lead over Houston a few years back, and blew that series. Maybe they've stopped listening to Doc. He has to figure in this somehow.
Denver is doing a much better job of slowing the Clippers down defensively though. The Clippers blew our doors off and we had a historically bad defensive performance in that series, and even with that we still managed to steal a couple with great offense and a lack of killer instinct by the Clippers. A lack of killer instinct I suspect will catch up to them either in game 7 or against the Lakers if they win game 7 and prevent the Nuggets from becoming the first team to come back from 3-1 twice in a row
Correct. On a side note, Doc could become the 1st coach ever to lose 3 3-1 leads in NBA history. He lost a 3-1 lead and the series vs Detroit in 03, when he coached Orlando, and T-Mac famously said the series was over. Then again in 2015, when Houston came back and beat the Clippers, and now if the Nuggets can pull it off tomorrow. Not a record to be proud of.
(09-14-2020, 05:00 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I take your point that even players we think "suck" and have negative value, probably have more value in the market and Bledsoe, who is an accomplished player could be that.
You are assuming this player (Bledsoe example) HAS to be moved. He doesn't HAVE to be moved. If no one offers more than Wright and Jackson, you keep him. He is far better than both of them. His contract is not a problem, as long as you are not in tax.
(09-14-2020, 05:09 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 05:00 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I take your point that even players we think "suck" and have negative value, probably have more value in the market and Bledsoe, who is an accomplished player could be that.
You are assuming this player (Bledsoe example) HAS to be moved. He doesn't HAVE to be moved. If no one offers more than Wright and Jackson, you keep him. He is far better than both of them. His contract is not a problem, as long as you are not in tax.
Ya I don't disagree. I am just wondering if OKC wants his contract on the books. Its not that bad bc in 2022 it only has a small guarantee. You are probably correct that a team would have to give up something good in return (prospect or pick) to get him. I just know OKC will be in sell-off mode.
(09-14-2020, 04:47 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 04:29 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]If you are Detroit and you suck every year why not just take 2 bad contracts and be a good team? You already have Griffin. If I am them and I want to make the playoffs I could get Westbrook probably for nothing and 1 other overpaid player like Wiggins and just see what happens. Make the playoffs at least. If you had Griffin, Westbrook, Wiggins and Rose and they stay healthy you would at least be in the playoffs in the East.
You are continously under wrong impression that wanna be contending teams will just dump bad contracts for nothing. They will not. They want contributers back and they are prepared to pay picks for it. So, if Houston is trading Westbrook, it will be because they are rebuilding (picks and/or young players back) or because they want to get better (better fitting players). Houston of course have a problem, because they have no assets left to trade for really better players. In Philly case, they have about one or two years window to make it happen with Embiid/Simmons. So Horford will only be traded for better fitting player and Philly will happily pay picks to make it happen.
You are also continusly wrong that bad teams will be just dumping decent players on bad salaries (like Wright+Jackson for Bledsoe if he gets traded). They will not do that, unless they receive a pick. They have no motivation to do it. It is better for them to run it one year, increase his stats and decrease how bad contract is with one year less on it. Like OKC did with Paul.
The only exceptions when salary dumps might happen are if someone wants to clear cap space because he wants to sign good players or if someone wants to avoid tax. What we don't know is the effect of Covid economic crisis. Teams are losing money and it may lead to some decisions we haven't seen in the last years. However, no rumors of owners in trouble have been circulated yet. Only one case, where possibility that picks will be sold for cash was mentioned.
I doubt Detroit goes after players like Westbrook, who's on the wrong side of 30 now, and he's slowly going to lose that unreal athleticism due to age. If Detroit or any other lower tier team wants to improve, it's through the draft, and trades for young players who weren't given a chance riding the end of a good teams bench. One good example is Christian Wood who has turned into a player when he got the chance. SVG set them back 3 years with his ineptness in regards to drafting and bad trades.
(09-14-2020, 05:11 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I just know OKC will be in sell-off mode.
Sure. But as you said in sell off mode. Not in give away for nothing mode
(09-14-2020, 05:01 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 10:20 AM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 09:06 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 02:15 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs exposed the Clippers and the Nuggets have the talent and depth to make them pay. If we were able to constantly come back from big Clippers leads with Luka + all the bit players, the Nuggets are able to do it easily too. Clippers are in big trouble!
Not really. If they play with intensity and grit for more than a half, they'll beat Denver. They don't have a answer for Joker though. Lately, they get leads and give them up too easily. They had a 3-1 lead over Houston a few years back, and blew that series. Maybe they've stopped listening to Doc. He has to figure in this somehow.
Denver is doing a much better job of slowing the Clippers down defensively though. The Clippers blew our doors off and we had a historically bad defensive performance in that series, and even with that we still managed to steal a couple with great offense and a lack of killer instinct by the Clippers. A lack of killer instinct I suspect will catch up to them either in game 7 or against the Lakers if they win game 7 and prevent the Nuggets from becoming the first team to come back from 3-1 twice in a row
Correct. On a side note, Doc could become the 1st coach ever to lose 3 3-1 leads in NBA history. He lost a 3-1 lead and the series vs Detroit in 03, when he coached Orlando, and T-Mac famously said the series was over. Then again in 2015, when Houston came back and beat the Clippers, and now if the Nuggets can pull it off tomorrow. Not a record to be proud of.
What a good point this is. Even if the Clips pull this one out, it helps to confirm my point above that one of the Clippers problems is their coach is not nearly as great as he is given credit for. Again, I have him somewhere between 6th and 10th on NBA coach ratings: not top 5 or top 3 or #1 as he is sometimes given credit for.
(09-14-2020, 05:16 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 05:11 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I just know OKC will be in sell-off mode.
Sure. But as you said in sell off mode. Not in give away for nothing mode
So Omahen what about when the Thunder traded Carmelo Anthony to the Hawks for Schroeder? The Hawks at the time were happy to shed Schroeder after some off the court stuff. They got a protected first-round pick from the Thunder not bc Dennis was so great but for the favor of getting OKC out of luxury tax. Even though both Carmelo and Schroeder were names that previously had success, they were getting dumped in both directions.
Any star out there can eventually get Carmelo status. So while I agree to an extent that you don't get anything for nothing, there is a tipping point where even a name player (Westbrook, Love, Griffin, Wall, etc) becomes such a negative asset that you can dump them for "nothing" or maybe even have to use a pick to unload them. It can absolutely happen and it's not crazy to speculate about it.
(09-14-2020, 07:11 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]So Omahen what about when the Thunder traded Carmelo Anthony to the Hawks for Schroeder?
From OKC, it was a cost cutting move as it saved them huge tax bill. I told you this is one of the exceptions.
Atlanta received a FRP for their troubles.
Cleveland continously refuses to just give away Love, proving exactly my point.
(09-14-2020, 07:53 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 07:11 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]So Omahen what about when the Thunder traded Carmelo Anthony to the Hawks for Schroeder?
From OKC, it was a cost cutting move as it saved them huge tax bill. I told you this is one of the exceptions.
Atlanta received a FRP for their troubles.
Cleveland continously refuses to just give away Love, proving exactly my point.
Because Cleveland is in a rebuild. 76ers for example aren´t but if they want to improve they need to get rid of Horford and/or Harris. Same for the OKC example. They were a playoff team.
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