Yeah complete stuff up, Dragic is killing it in the playoffs.
Possibly the Heats best player in the playoffs.
He would have also been the experienced playmaker the Mavs have needed.
The only thing I can think of is they thought he would interrupt Luka’s development somehow. Ie thought he would defer to Dragic to much.
Do you think Riley will send Cuban and Donnie rings if the Heat win the championship?
(09-18-2020, 01:05 AM)Aussiebballer Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah complete stuff up, Dragic is killing it in the playoffs.
He is and he is just excellent. However, there is no certainty he would work same way in Dallas. In Miami he is surrounded with 4 excellent defenders that cover up his weaknesses. In Dallas, that wouldn't be the case. Dallas would have even weaker perimeter defense. Offense would be great, but it already is. Sure he would help to rest Luka a bit and lead the bench. But, defense wouldn't be better, perhaps even worse.
Kind of agree with you, but half of Miami’s rotation are avg or below defenders as well, ie Robinson, Nunn, Herro, Olynyk, Iggy
They have Butler, Bam and Crowder as good to great defenders, Jones as a good defender that fouls a lot.
(09-17-2020, 04:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2020, 04:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The Dwight Powell thing is the biggest head-scratcher of the last several years. The Mavs have been overall disciplined and able to sign their guys to reasonable contracts. Powell was finally going to roll off his last contract where he was overpaid and the Mavs extended him for no discernible reason. It feels like this whole time it's been Cubes' desire to still justify the Rondo trade which turned out so poorly.
Powell had great stats in terms of FG% and whatnot but what we have seen and will continue to see is that a large share of that success belongs to Luka who makes a lot of roll men look amazing. Powell is a good player but there just wasn't ever a reason to overpay for his role which has become marginalized in recent years.
The only explanation I could come up with is that Cubes, Donnie and Rick all thought Powell was THE 5 to play next to KP. They valued his elite above the rim skills and his elite finishing ability. They felt that KP as a help defender could hide Powell's obvious defensive deficiencies and he's agile enough to guard wings. Put that package together with the fact that Powell is an incredibly smart and by in large a fantastic locker room presence, the Mavs FO felt that they needed to extend him at his current salary. And they probably thought they'd be getting a deal too looking at it from that perspective.
Once Powell went down and KP moved to the 5, I think they saw their mistake finally. It really opened up this team's offense once KP moved and KP exploded in production (26/11/2 blocks on 50/39/86 in Feb.)
If the Mavs are self-aware, they'd admit Powell was a big mistake. Especially given that he suffered the most lethal injury career-wise for a basketball player. Who's to say Powell has any sort of bounce he once had? I don't think they'd trade him for anyone. But if I was Donnie I'd be trying to find something this summer.
THJ+Powell+18+31 for Hield+35+43 is one deal I've been ruminating over.
We'd have to adjust that trade but I like the way you're thinking, Hield wouldn't help our defense but that would get us out of the Powell contract and bring in a real starter. We can't offer 18 by the Stepien rule because we traded our 2021 first round pick to New York in the Porzingis trade.
(09-18-2020, 11:07 AM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2020, 04:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2020, 04:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The Dwight Powell thing is the biggest head-scratcher of the last several years. The Mavs have been overall disciplined and able to sign their guys to reasonable contracts. Powell was finally going to roll off his last contract where he was overpaid and the Mavs extended him for no discernible reason. It feels like this whole time it's been Cubes' desire to still justify the Rondo trade which turned out so poorly.
Powell had great stats in terms of FG% and whatnot but what we have seen and will continue to see is that a large share of that success belongs to Luka who makes a lot of roll men look amazing. Powell is a good player but there just wasn't ever a reason to overpay for his role which has become marginalized in recent years.
The only explanation I could come up with is that Cubes, Donnie and Rick all thought Powell was THE 5 to play next to KP. They valued his elite above the rim skills and his elite finishing ability. They felt that KP as a help defender could hide Powell's obvious defensive deficiencies and he's agile enough to guard wings. Put that package together with the fact that Powell is an incredibly smart and by in large a fantastic locker room presence, the Mavs FO felt that they needed to extend him at his current salary. And they probably thought they'd be getting a deal too looking at it from that perspective.
Once Powell went down and KP moved to the 5, I think they saw their mistake finally. It really opened up this team's offense once KP moved and KP exploded in production (26/11/2 blocks on 50/39/86 in Feb.)
If the Mavs are self-aware, they'd admit Powell was a big mistake. Especially given that he suffered the most lethal injury career-wise for a basketball player. Who's to say Powell has any sort of bounce he once had? I don't think they'd trade him for anyone. But if I was Donnie I'd be trying to find something this summer.
THJ+Powell+18+31 for Hield+35+43 is one deal I've been ruminating over.
We'd have to adjust that trade but I like the way you're thinking, Hield wouldn't help our defense but that would get us out of the Powell contract and bring in a real starter. We can't offer 18 by the Stepien rule because we traded our 2021 first round pick to New York in the Porzingis trade.
We can trade it after the draft. Since the role is for future pick
(09-18-2020, 11:07 AM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]We'd have to adjust that trade but I like the way you're thinking, Hield wouldn't help our defense but that would get us out of the Powell contract and bring in a real starter. We can't offer 18 by the Stepien rule because we traded our 2021 first round pick to New York in the Porzingis trade.
I like Hield offensive game. But, for a little offensive improvement we lose a lot of our flexibility, our pick and gain no defense. Not really like it
And yes, we can offer #18 on draft day (draft a player and trade him).
I would prefer to use our assets to improve, than just to get rid of Powell.
Maybe he will be back 80% or 90% but I can't see why we would dump him, as he is just dead cap.
I can agree that Powell might be (might be) overpaid, but the herd mentality on this board has become "purge him from our roster and lives" and I just can't get behind that.
If there's a chance to get Giannis or some other difference maker through Free Agency, and Powell's deal is the one you need to move? Bye, bye!
But, many of you good people have convinced me that there aren't enough alternatives in 2021 to justify an all out sprint in that direction, so I'm not sure I like the idea of including Powell in every trade scenario just because of his contract.
I think the guy contributes. Like, a lot. I wish he was a better rebounder, but I think his contribution on offense is taken for granted here grossly and regularly, and I think he has the intelligence, drive and body type to be exactly the type of defender many teams need right now. I think he's still developing, and that both his defense and shooting will improve, given that he's healthy.
He's the team representative in the player's union, and it's obvious he's one of the team leaders, contributing to this culture we all know to be a positive. It's clear that both the locker room and the front office hold him in extremely high regard.
The only thing I'm worried about, even regarding his contract, is the injury. I'm much more worried about his injury than KP's latest one, for example. But, if they decide to keep him, I'll assume they feel at least decent about it.
(09-18-2020, 12:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The only thing I'm worried about, even regarding his contract, is the injury. I'm much more worried about his injury than KP's latest one, for example. But, if they decide to keep him, I'll assume they feel at least decent about it.
The injury is bad and severely hampers NBA players in particular. Now a recent success story I think you can look at is Rudy Gay. He suffered the same injury around the same age and is still a very productive basketball player.
I think Powell will still be crafty enough to be a good big off the bench even if he isn't quite soaring as high as he used to. I do wonder about his ability to put the ball on the floor bc that was an element to his game that was pretty exciting. It's not like he has a crossover or anything but the pump fake then hard drive to basket from the 3 point line is a really good skill for a player his size.
Wes Matthews suffered the same injury I believe even a year younger or so. Mavs guessed that he would still be an elite 3D player and clearly he never was the same player. He has remained a very good 3 point shooter but his explosiveness is not there and he has had no lift since his injury. The biggest issue with Matthews was that his defensive ability fell off a cliff.
To this day Wes has a reputation as a good defender but he just isn't. Luka completely destroys him on defense. Now Luka does that to a lot of ppl but I have watched enough post-injury Wes to see that he is an extremely overrated defender post-Achilles.
Powell plays a different position and wasn't a shot blocker or anything that would now be hampered but its for sure a concern.
All that being said we know Boban for example is slow and can't jump at all but is a very good offensive talent and good roll man. A lot of that is due to his size but being a good roll man requires some skills that other than physical tools and Powell won't lose those skills and craftiness.
I am optimistic he will be a good and useful player still off the bench. Starting days are over except maybe on KP rest days? I am still irritated the Mavs have given him so much money but it could be worse I suppose.
Yeah, the injury sucks, and I hope the Mavs are viewing the situation soberly, for sure.
(09-18-2020, 12:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I can agree that Powell might be (might be) overpaid, but the herd mentality on this board has become "purge him from our roster and lives" and I just can't get behind that.
If there's a chance to get Giannis or some other difference maker through Free Agency, and Powell's deal is the one you need to move? Bye, bye!
But, many of you good people have convinced me that there aren't enough alternatives in 2021 to justify an all out sprint in that direction, so I'm not sure I like the idea of including Powell in every trade scenario just because of his contract.
I think the guy contributes. Like, a lot. I wish he was a better rebounder, but I think his contribution on offense is taken for granted here grossly and regularly, and I think he has the intelligence, drive and body type to be exactly the type of defender many teams need right now. I think he's still developing, and that both his defense and shooting will improve, given that he's healthy.
He's the team representative in the player's union, and it's obvious he's one of the team leaders, contributing to this culture we all know to be a positive. It's clear that both the locker room and the front office hold him in extremely high regard.
The only thing I'm worried about, even regarding his contract, is the injury. I'm much more worried about his injury than KP's latest one, for example. But, if they decide to keep him, I'll assume they feel at least decent about it.
I didn't understand any hype Powell got for about his first 4 years here, I hated his first contract that we gave him (that at that time he didn't earn at all), and absolutely hated and was vocal about hating the double down approach. He's grown on me in the last 2 years and I believe he would be a great bench role player for the team, not starter (pre or post injury).
The contract is something we have to work around and I'd prefer using that money in a better way, but I think the contract and injury together makes him a player that we'll have to keep for a year at least because I find it hard to believe a team would take it on without knowing how he's gonna get through the injury. That is, unless we're taking on an even worse contract like say Horford (in this instance, Horford would be taken to get a real prize from Phil like Richardson and we give up lesser value contracts to us like Powell and Wright to make it happen), who he himself would be a great contributor for this team off the bench/KP starter insurance.
In other words, I would move Powell if it gains us something that can help the team moving forward and that threshold for me isn't at Giannis level. I understand that threshold would be different for everyone here and that is why I basically say I would include him in the right deal.
(09-18-2020, 12:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think he has the intelligence, drive and body type to be exactly the type of defender many teams need right now
I think his defensive contributions are greatly underappreciated. He is actually a positive defensive contributor whole carreer. His average DBPM is +0.9. His DRTG last season was at 111 (Kleber 112, DFS 113). Powell plays good team defense and has a very strong motor. He provides energy. Yes, he is overpaid and yes, he probably isn't starter on a contender. But obviously Mavs think he is important. I think the only way he gets traded is if they absolutely need to include him in a star trade. They will not be using the scarce assets to dump him or trade him for even worse contract. He is considered as part of Mavs core and it will not change unless he comes back only as a shadow of his former self.
Even without all the emotional stuff, his value is at an all time low and why would we trade him now. Wait for a season, perhaps he comes back same him and his contract will be a year shorter. It will be much easier to move him in 2021
So here are some rumours which teams might have financial troubles and might be less inclined to spend next season:
- GSW (more on a short term, as long as there are no fans allowed)
- Houston - might be big trouble
- Thunder - might be the right time to go into savings mode and do the obvious (rebuild needed) with the necessary (lack of money)
- Heat (not really worried)
- Kings (who still thinks Bogi might get a rich offer from them?)
- Pacers
- Knicks
- Raptors
https://theathletic.com/2076228/2020/09/...nancially/
(09-18-2020, 01:11 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]
So here are some rumours which teams might have financial troubles and might be less inclined to spend next season:
- GSW (more on a short term, as long as there are no fans allowed)
- Houston - might be big trouble
- Thunder - might be the right time to go into savings mode and do the obvious (rebuild needed) with the necessary (lack of money)
- Heat (not really worried)
- Kings (who still thinks Bogi might get a rich offer from them?)
- Pacers
- Knicks
- Raptors
"Spending" is one thing. Making big moves that may or my not include higher pay rolls is another thing. I full expect huge trades this offseason. The Thunder is a team that stands out bc we do know that they will be in sell-off mode in part to control finances. Houston, Knicks and many others will be making huge moves, I have no doubt.
I think Powell's prospects of recovery and productivity are much lower than many here are saying. His driving and rim-running ability, his leaping, and his lateral quickness - the aspects of his game that he depends on - have a 100% chance of being affected. The question is how badly. I think the most we can hope for is that he returns as the 10th-best player on a championship team. And on that turd of a contract. It's a mini-John Wall.
I came to be convinced this season watching the games and looking for what others were saying that Powell is a crafty and capable perimeter defender, which is a must for bigs in today's league, and a very good thing. The thing is, from the time he came here in the trade to the day of his injury, once the ball gets in the paint or the post, he is completely hapless. One of the absolute worst bigs in the league in that respect. Pre-injury. I think that this year's playoffs showed how important that everyone (including Luka doing the best he can and hopefully improving moving forward) playing capable defense is sine qua non. I don't care if Powell miraculously comes back 100%, he has no business in the starting lineup given his crushing defensive liabilities in the paint if RC and the Mavs give two effs about defense moving forward, which they must. And they aren't going to relegate KP to his pre-Powell injury role in any event. Dan is a great poster, but he's going Balkis in his arguments about this.
I agree that you only trade Powell at an asset price now if you need the cap room for some reason. But I'll bet they do trade him - love, loyalty and all that becoming secondary - no later than the 2021 offseason if we have any interest whatsoever in improving the team through free agency.
(09-18-2020, 12:58 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]To this day Wes has a reputation as a good defender but he just isn't. Luka completely destroys him on defense.
I agree with your argument about Wes post-injury, but I think you're also underrating Luka's motivations here as well. Matthews abhorrently disrespected Luka's game and role while he was here. I hope Wes hung his head in repentant shame when Luka was named to the All-NBA First Team. Idiot. "Rick, Rick, what's my role?" "To be Luka's bitch, ho-ho-ho."
I am not sure what y'all are seeing in terms of Powell's defense. I am generally completely unimpressed by his defense especially with the starting unit. I would see flashes sometimes where the team defense looked good with him out there. It was seldom that I saw him really stand out individually on defense.
One issue is that he really has no shot-blocking ability for whatever reason. It was a big deal when you'd see him get the occasional shot block. I have seen players drive right by Powell without him able to alter the shot. On closeouts around the perimeter, I also don't think he bothers shooters.
His defense has been my biggest issue. Offensively he's great, uber-efficient. On defense however he generally just doesn't impress tho you would think he has the tools (or had?) to be a solid defender.
With that I don't see a huge drop-off coming post-achilles bc he wasn't that great to begin with. I also think the bench just suits him better anyway bc he will be generally playing against players that can't as easily take advantage of his defensive shortcomings.
So call me an optimist but I think contract aside we will be pleasantly surprised with his effectiveness coming back from injury, at least once he gets comfortable. Maybe it takes a couple of months but I think he will get there.
(09-18-2020, 01:11 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think his defensive contributions are greatly underappreciated. He is actually a positive defensive contributor whole carreer.
DRPM for Powell...
19-20: +0.57
18-19: -0.12
17-18: +1.76
On/Off Defensive +/-...
19-20: +3.7
18-19: -2.4
17-18: +4.3
This (like SO MANY other things) is an example of how fan reputation about players is often 100% wrong. DP is a hard playing and smart defender, who clearly is outmatched by bigger bodies, but still tends to have a positive impact for team defense.
On DP's contract (my unpopular opinion):
The Mavs got DP for a bargain, except they couldn't foresee the Achilles injury (eye-roll). Dude is a baller and when in the right role is an absolute winning player that will help a team on both sides of the ball AND in the locker room. The hate for him is such irrational scape-goating.
So it's confirmed that the two best players for our team, @"Kammrath" AND @"DanSchwartzman" see Powell as a good player, pre-injury, and value his contributions to the Mavericks???
What the hell are we arguing about, then?!??
Next topic.
I'm not really someone to be listened to, but I think Powell is good