I actually love both cow and KL's reasoning here. I believe that this is a case where the truth is several realities held in tension, and that you're both right in spite of the seeming contradictions.
As long as RC 1) retains Luka's confidence, and 2) gets a good defensive assistant, I guess I'm resigned (once again) to his staying here, perhaps even happily so.
Regardless of how you feel about him, you can't hold anything that happened between 2011 and last season against him. You just can't.
That job should've been done by a first year head coach who was happy to have a toehold in the business, not one of the most respected coaches in all of sports. They had NO chance of winning. It was a (badly mishandled) rebuild. Carlisle basically (knowingly) jumped between the machine gun fire and the front office by staying here, and THIS portion of the rebuild (post Luka draft pick) is undeniably farther along as a result of him being in place already.
If he had left when any other established guy would have, we'd be reading RIGHT NOW about how the Mavs had fired their young, developmental coach because with Luka, they think it's time to think playoffs, and they probably wouldn't have just experienced the first such season. They'd be hoping to get a Ty Lue, a D'Antoni, etc, and while those guys might be great, next year would be year ONE. I would argue that they'd be at least 2-3 years behind where they'll be next year, and probably with someone not as good as Carlisle.
We are LUCKY he's here.
Once again, KL, I like your reasoning, but I just think the truth of things is complicated. We'll see how the next two years go.
(09-29-2020, 03:11 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Once again, KL, I like your reasoning, but I just think the truth of things is complicated. We'll see how the next two years go.
Oh, my dude, it's PRO SPORTS.
Regardless of how we got here, he's got Luka and KP, now. If the team isn't constantly moving (at a good pace) towards contending for and ultimately winning a championship, fire his ass. The clock literally started ticking THIS YEAR.
So far, I think he's doing really well.
(09-29-2020, 02:59 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I actually love both cow and KL's reasoning here. I believe that this is a case where the truth is several realities held in tension, and that you're both right in spite of the seeming contradictions.
As long as RC 1) retains Luka's confidence, and 2) gets a good defensive assistant, I guess I'm resigned (once again) to his staying here, perhaps even happily so.
For the record, I'm not in camp fire Carlisle, but I don't think he's a sacred cow beyond reproach. Like I tried to explain, things aren't black and white (lots of grey in there). He see's that the NBA is changing ("positionless basketball") and I hope he sees that players and coaching has changed as well. We have some evidence to see that's he's evolved but at times is still stuck in an old mindset.
(09-29-2020, 03:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of how you feel about him, you can't hold anything that happened between 2011 and last season against him. You just can't.
That job should've been done by a first year head coach who was happy to have a toehold in the business, not one of the most respected coaches in all of sports. They had NO chance of winning. It was a (badly mishandled) rebuild. Carlisle basically (knowingly) jumped between the machine gun fire and the front office by staying here, and THIS portion of the rebuild (post Luka draft pick) is undeniably farther along as a result of him being in place already.
If he had left when any other established guy would have, we'd be reading RIGHT NOW about how the Mavs had fired their young, developmental coach because with Luka, they think it's time to think playoffs, and they probably wouldn't have just experienced the first such season. They'd be hoping to get a Ty Lue, a D'Antoni, etc, and while those guys might be great, next year would be year ONE. I would argue that they'd be at least 2-3 years behind where they'll be next year, and probably with someone not as good as Carlisle.
We are LUCKY he's here.
I can´t follow your line of thought. We were rebuilding since 2011? I thought we were contending? I guess that sums up the lost decade of the MBT. We can´t even decide WTF that was supposed to be.
(09-30-2020, 12:58 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2020, 03:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of how you feel about him, you can't hold anything that happened between 2011 and last season against him. You just can't.
That job should've been done by a first year head coach who was happy to have a toehold in the business, not one of the most respected coaches in all of sports. They had NO chance of winning. It was a (badly mishandled) rebuild. Carlisle basically (knowingly) jumped between the machine gun fire and the front office by staying here, and THIS portion of the rebuild (post Luka draft pick) is undeniably farther along as a result of him being in place already.
If he had left when any other established guy would have, we'd be reading RIGHT NOW about how the Mavs had fired their young, developmental coach because with Luka, they think it's time to think playoffs, and they probably wouldn't have just experienced the first such season. They'd be hoping to get a Ty Lue, a D'Antoni, etc, and while those guys might be great, next year would be year ONE. I would argue that they'd be at least 2-3 years behind where they'll be next year, and probably with someone not as good as Carlisle.
We are LUCKY he's here.
I can´t follow your line of thought. We were rebuilding since 2011? I thought we were contending? I guess that sums up the lost decade of the MBT. We can´t even decide WTF that was supposed to be.
That's actually a really good way of stating the point I'm trying to make. They TOLD us they were trying to be good that entire time, up until DSJ's rookie year. But, anyone with a brain could see that they were BAAAAAAAD, and I assume they were aware of this, since, you know, it's what they do for a living. If they weren't, the franchise is in a lot of trouble.
I seem to remember an interview with Luka's agent after the draft about how he was glad Luka was playing for a Coach like Carlisle...
Can't believe I'm cheering for the Heat. 2020, ladies and gentlemen.
I can't believe spoelstra has not called a timeout with the lakers pulling away like this.
Depending on that Butler ankle sprain and Bam shoulder strain, this series might be over.
Has anyone won Finals MVP with three different teams? Although AD might have something to say about that.
UGH. Vomit.
Another Lakers title? Another Lebron title?
![[Image: WellgroomedNarrowHind-size_restricted.gif]](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WellgroomedNarrowHind-size_restricted.gif)
Easiest road to a championship in years
Hate it so bad we didn't take a harder stab in a year so clearly wide open
LeBron is the G.O.A.T. (Greatest of all Teamchangers)
It is sweet to hear LeBron LaMent 2011.