(09-18-2020, 10:08 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2020, 09:10 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Because fans have eyes?
That just feels like derogatory, ad-hominem drivel.
We all watch the games, please don't act like those with your opinions are the only ones who do. Come on. We can do better than that.
Sorry, Kamm. I did not mean it as ad-hominem drivel, and I have the highest respect for what you bring to the board. Love your posts, generally speaking. I'm saying that many are convinced that Powell fails the eye test, especially on interior defense. I appreciate some of the arguments about Powell's offensive effect, although I think his 3-point shooting is pretty indefensible to the point that it's head-scratching that RC plays him at all when he likes to have five shooters on the floor if possible. As I said, I came around earlier this year to the intelligence of Powell's perimeter defensive game. That said, I have been watching Powell for the past six years, and if any numerical metric says his interior defense is better than abjectly wretched, I would die a martyr's death rather than accept that metric. Something is simply wrong with it. My eyes have told me consistently that Powell can no more defend the rim against any NBA player than Air Mantis could out-muscle Shaq. While others might not express it in those words, there are many people who know that Powell can't challenge shots close to the rim because they watch the games. I found your head-scratching over people's dislike of Powell in spite of the statistics a bit insulting, to be quite honest, because I thought it was self-evident that their own eyes had told them something different with a pretty enormous sample size.
I like you, and I like 90% of what you post, even when I disagree, but that doesn't mean two people aren't going to disagree strongly once in a while. Hope we're cool.
(09-18-2020, 10:47 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]his interior defense
I (nor any stat I was quoting) would not dare claim to have anything specific to say about his "interior defense." The stats I like cannot parse that out. The stats I like and trust can only look at how a player potentially impacts the overall team defense while on the court vs off the court over a LONG period of time.
Like I said in one of my posts, DP is clearly out-muscled by bigger guys, however, the stats tell us that even though THAT IS THE CASE, he still tends to have an overall positive impact on team defense (or at least he has with the Mavs in the last three years).
If the Mavs keep having better team defense success with DP playing versus sitting for three years, it tells us he is NOT some big problem or negative on the defensive end even though he may get his butt kicked on the interior at times.
P.S. And of course, "we're cool" I just prefer discussion about basketball rather than drifting into things that begin to feel like attacks.
We need some room for nuance. A great roll man Is a powerful offensive tool. But I think DP's ideal role with the Mavs would be off the bench but still playing a good bit with Luka, unless DP and KP figure out how to coexist in a lineup.
(09-18-2020, 10:47 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, Kamm. I did not mean it as ad-hominem drivel, and I have the highest respect for what you bring to the board. Love your posts, generally speaking. I'm saying that many are convinced that Powell fails the eye test, especially on interior defense. I appreciate some of the arguments about Powell's offensive effect, although I think his 3-point shooting is pretty indefensible to the point that it's head-scratching that RC plays him at all when he likes to have five shooters on the floor if possible. As I said, I came around earlier this year to the intelligence of Powell's perimeter defensive game. That said, I have been watching Powell for the past six years, and if any numerical metric says his interior defense is better than abjectly wretched, I would die a martyr's death rather than accept that metric. Something is simply wrong with it. My eyes have told me consistently that Powell can no more defend the rim against any NBA player than Air Mantis could out-muscle Shaq. While others might not express it in those words, there are many people who know that Powell can't challenge shots close to the rim because they watch the games. I found your head-scratching over people's dislike of Powell in spite of the statistics a bit insulting, to be quite honest, because I thought it was self-evident that their own eyes had told them something different with a pretty enormous sample size.
I like you, and I like 90% of what you post, even when I disagree, but that doesn't mean two people aren't going to disagree strongly once in a while. Hope we're cool.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/QMZpnb79N5BN0wsSM3/giphy.gif)
What scott said. We're all passionate fans. Sometimes sparks fly when there is a crossroads of opinion. Doesn't mean anyone is wrong.
Funnily enough Kamm's devout praise to Powell has made me rethink how I see Powell and really give him a fair shake. If you told me circa 2016-17 I would be complentary of Powell I'd have call you nuts. He really is a fantastic offensive player. I just think he's a below average defender in the paint that makes him a weak point in any lineup he's in.
@"SleepingHero" , dude, Powell wasn't any good in 2016/2017!
(09-18-2020, 07:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2020, 07:05 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Zero of the other 29 teams in the league would have dumped that much money into Powell.
1) This is complete and total, 100% speculation.
2) The Mavs would have had ACTUAL intel on what interest and offers DP would have had, while you and I have absolutely ZERO.
I do not think the MBT doesn't make mistakes....but I seriously do not understand how people with such LITTLE information (readers of a message board!) can seriously claim to have more insight and understanding than the people who have access to exponentially MORE information than we do.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/UpJ84Y3t8jYVfHUvDu/giphy.gif)
To be fair we have won as many play-off series in the last decade as these great Mavs experts, which I´m pretty sure is a "top" 5 streak.
(09-19-2020, 12:02 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]@"SleepingHero" , dude, Powell wasn't any good in 2016/2017!
And yet summer of '16 is where we gave him a $37M/4-yr deal.
(09-18-2020, 11:52 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2020, 11:40 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]We need some room for nuance.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/whOs1JywNpe6c/giphy.gif)
I've got a fever, and the only prescription...is more Powell-bell!
(09-18-2020, 07:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]2) The Mavs would have had ACTUAL intel on what interest and offers DP would have had, while you and I have absolutely ZERO.
DP didn't have any offers, cause he wasn't a FA. That's the biggest head scratcher of the extension, unless the extension was him being paid in the same vein as Maxi or DFS who are both just as good as he is for the team IMO.
(09-18-2020, 04:52 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2020, 04:05 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What the hell are we arguing about, then?!??
Just because there are advanced stats that paint Powell as a net positive defensive player, does not mean he is actually a good defender. He is consistently bullied out of the paint by any player larger than him. His rim defense is often times non-existent. His positioning is poor. He is too small to matchup against true 5's, and too slow to matchup against smaller 4's. He is an overall average team defender though. He makes the right rotation most of the time and he hustled whenever he was on the court. He is an average PnR defender, ranking in the 52nd percentile. Right next to our old pal Deandre Jordan and Clint Capela.
Powell got his contract because he is a great dude, fantastic locker room presence, and was an ELITE roll man. He also was an intriguing option to play next to KP, where theoretically they both could fit. But so far no player has ever returned from an achilles injury and was ever the same. Dominique Wilkins is the only one that came close. You can't plan for a career ending like injury, and Powell wasn't as bad as many paint him out to be. BUT we also cannot prop him up like he was an absolute essential part of this team. As soon as he went down his roll was filled better by KP. His injury allowed a much better defender and shooter in Maxi to get more minutes. And a lob threat was easily replaced on a minimum contract with WCS.
Mavs would be wise to dump Powell in any way possible while taking as little salary as they can back.
We all know DP is awful in rimprotection and postdefense.
The league is trending the other way.
And advanced stats can show whatever you want.
But he IS fine as a team defender. He is staying alert, doing the right things, is awesome in trapping and blitzing - that's value.
Our record plummet the moment we lost him.
We would have beaten the clips, if he would have been available, if you ask me.
Playing Maxi more than 20min is a bad thing. Playing KP and Maxi together is great on paper, but doesn't really work.
WCS looked good to me in spurts, I really hope he takes his option, but for a smaller role rather than a big role. He is sapping energy, where DP is injecting some.
(09-19-2020, 01:15 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I've got a fever, and the only prescription...is more Powell-bell!
Glad you got it.
(09-19-2020, 01:55 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]And advanced stats can show whatever you want.
Not true. If you interpret them correctly, not true at all.
(09-19-2020, 12:38 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]To be fair we have won as many play-off series in the last decade as these great Mavs experts, which I´m pretty sure is a "top" 5 streak.
It's true, Scott SleepingHero, IGT, and Dougie are great Mavs experts. But no need to make fun of them for their lack of championships.
(09-19-2020, 10:50 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy to the 76ers for Horford would make a lot of sense. There are going to be so many huge moves this summer. Guys we think aren't tradable will be traded.
I think it'd make a TON of sense for Philly. They'd get that shooting they so desperately missed when they let Reddick walk.
Not sure why the Kings voluntarily sign up to pay an extra 10 million bucks over the next 2 years for an aging Horford that doesn't help the Kings get better at all, and doesn't help their cap situation. Kings could theoretically be tax payers if someone signs Bogdon to a big deal and the Kings match it.
Plus, if the Kings want to get rid of Hield for an overpaid big man, Mavs can offer up Powell who is younger and cheaper *(plus only a little injured, what a bargain).
(09-19-2020, 11:18 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2020, 10:50 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy to the 76ers for Horford would make a lot of sense. There are going to be so many huge moves this summer. Guys we think aren't tradable will be traded.
I think it'd make a TON of sense for Philly. They'd get that shooting they so desperately missed when they let Reddick walk.
Not sure why the Kings voluntarily sign up to pay an extra 10 million bucks over the next 2 years for an aging Horford that doesn't help the Kings get better at all, and doesn't help their cap situation. Kings could theoretically be tax payers if someone signs Bogdon to a big deal and the Kings match it.
Plus, if the Kings want to get rid of Hield for an overpaid big man, Mavs can offer up Powell who is younger and cheaper *(plus only a little injured, what a bargain).
I would imagine that the answer to your question is, Kings gonna King. We'll see if their new management is as dumb as Vlade.
(09-19-2020, 10:50 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy to the 76ers for Horford would make a lot of sense.
Yeah, for Philly. I don't get why would Sacramento take the league worst contract just for #34 and #36 picks. Horford is worse player of the two and has worse contract. THJ for Hield straight up seems like a prize compared to that proposal.
(09-19-2020, 07:15 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-19-2020, 01:15 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I've got a fever, and the only prescription...is more Powell-bell!
Glad you got it.
(09-19-2020, 01:55 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]And advanced stats can show whatever you want.
Not true. If you interpret them correctly, not true at all.
But then you can't use them to prove a point xD