MavsBoard

(01-30-2022, 01:16 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]This is a valid fear. But defense is always been effort based. We've seen all-nba defenders last well into their thirties just because they knew how to manipulate people. I think Smart is that level of defender and why he's getting paid so much. Also, 31 is not too old to where we'd expect a drastic decline in performance barring any major injuries.

I'm less concerned about his level of play slipping and more concerned that he'll be difficult to move the last three years of his contract.  I don't think he's a bad guy but I do think he can be abrasive and disrupt a locker room to the point where you might want to move him.  I do think our team could use a little bit of his attitude but that contract is pretty rich.

(01-30-2022, 01:25 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm less concerned about his level of play slipping and more concerned that he'll be difficult to move the last three years of his contract.  I don't think he's a bad guy but I do think he can be abrasive and disrupt a locker room to the point where you might want to move him.  I do think our team could use a little bit of his attitude but that contract is pretty rich.

That's the thing though, you make this trade with the idea (and hope) that Smart is THE backcourt/culture guy next to Luka for the next 4 years. I think this team is desperate for a voice like Smart, who I feel is a Draymond-lite in a sense. 

If it doesn't workout then I don't think it'd take too much effort to move him since a lot of teams would like Smart on their team.

(01-30-2022, 01:32 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That's the thing though, you make this trade with the idea (and hope) that Smart is THE backcourt/culture guy next to Luka for the next 4 years. I think this team is desperate for a voice like Smart, who I feel is a Draymond-lite in a sense. 

If it doesn't workout then I don't think it'd take too much effort to move him since a lot of teams would like Smart on their team.

I don't hate the idea of Smart.  Figure out a way to send KP out though.

(01-30-2022, 01:32 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That's the thing though, you make this trade with the idea (and hope) that Smart is THE backcourt/culture guy next to Luka for the next 4 years. I think this team is desperate for a voice like Smart, who I feel is a Draymond-lite in a sense. 

If it doesn't workout then I don't think it'd take too much effort to move him since a lot of teams would like Smart on their team.

I think if Smart was a Draymond-type player Boston would have another title at this point instead of continuously disappointing in the playoffs.

(01-30-2022, 01:39 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I think if Smart was a Draymond-type player Boston would have another title at this point instead of continuously disappointing in the playoffs.

More a rich man's Deshawn Stevenson than a poor man's Draymond Green.

KP, Trey Burke for Marcus Smart and Al Horford?

(01-30-2022, 01:39 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I think if Smart was a Draymond-type player Boston would have another title at this point instead of continuously disappointing in the playoffs.

Are we really going to blame Smart for the enigma that's Kyrie, Hayward blowing out his ankle, and Kemba's knees exploding? Cause those are the only reasons Boston didn't make it to the finals. Despite that they made the ECF 3 times in the last 6 years.

Sabonis is a fantastic player. I hope we make a trade for him. His fit with Luka and Brunson would make that offense unstoppable with 3 playmakers that fit playing together.

Brunson
Luka
DFS
Sabonis
Maxi

That's the lineup that can win it all.

(01-30-2022, 03:05 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Sabonis is a fantastic player. I hope we make a trade for him. His fit with Luka and Brunson would make that offense unstoppable with 3 playmakers that fit playing together.

Brunson
Luka
DFS
Sabonis
Maxi

That's the lineup that can win it all.

Interesting how different people come to different conclusions. For me the last game confirmed that Sabonis wouldn´t be a good fit for the Mavs. No one is denying that he is a really skilled offensive player but watching him defend in space I really don´t see how Brunson, Luka and Sabonis could play next to each other. He is the worst kind of defensive big for the modern game. Offers no rim protection and cannot defend on the perimeter. Maybe 10-20 years ago solid post defense and elite rebounding would have been enough to compensate for it but not in todays league.

(01-30-2022, 01:47 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]More a rich man's Deshawn Stevenson than a poor man's Draymond Green.

Stevenson knew his role and could shoot threes.

(01-30-2022, 03:29 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting how different people come to different conclusions. For me the last game confirmed that Sabonis wouldn´t be a good fit for the Mavs. No one is denying that he is a really skilled offensive player but watching him defend in space I really don´t see how Brunson, Luka and Sabonis could play next to each other. He is the worst kind of defensive big for the modern game. Offers no rim protection and cannot defend on the perimeter. Maybe 10-20 years ago solid post defense and elite rebounding would have been enough to compensate for it but not in todays league.

I agree on no rim protection. But he is a fantastic rebounder and positions him self really well in the paint. When paired with Maxi that protects the rim and space, they are a great fit. With KP, there would be no fit with Sabonis.

On offense, he is the next Jokic. Remember, Jokic has similar skills on offense and defense, and both Sabonis and Jokic would be fantatsic fits with Luka. They have the bbIQ to play along with Luka and Brunson to create something unique. It would be the best offense in NBA by a mile. And I dont think defensively we would regress. If Maxi is not traded.

(01-30-2022, 12:26 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He's even worse, because he's much more irrationally confident than Richardson. He actually tries to take over games, sometimes. My Celtic-fan friends despise him, and the general consensus is that his defense, which legitimately used to be difference-making, has fallen off considerably over the past several seasons (though still much better than the "defense" Richardson pretends to play). I have never really been a fan of bringing him here. 

 
This.  I don't want Smart.

(01-30-2022, 04:19 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]I agree on no rim protection. But he is a fantastic rebounder and positions him self really well in the paint. When paired with Maxi that protects the rim and space, they are a great fit. With KP, there would be no fit with Sabonis.

On offense, he is the next Jokic. Remember, Jokic has similar skills on offense and defense, and both Sabonis and Jokic would be fantatsic fits with Luka. They have the bbIQ to play along with Luka and Brunson to create something unique. It would be the best offense in NBA by a mile. And I dont think defensively we would regress. If Maxi is not traded.

This.  I want Sabonis.  On the Pacers he is asked to do too much.  Use him to his strengths and he would be a great fit.

Jokic?  Oh man...what a dream...

I fully admit that Smart is a risk.  however i think his personality would fit great with Kidd and would be a similar add that Tucker was to Houston, Portis was to the Bucks and Matrix was to Dallas.  He has a defensive IQ that would fit perfect next to Luka and when focused has the ability to raise his level of defense to elite level (of course not all the time). In the playoffs this is super necessary.  He would also come in and immediately be the captain of the defense vocally.
On offense he is definitely an irrational confidence guy but he is an off ball play maker, great screen setter, speeds up the offense and moves the ball extremely well.  His lack of consistent shooting is why i think it is imperative to get someone like Collins at the 3 or 4 who can create their own offense and give the team the offensive juice it is missing.  the combo of Smart and Collins in the starting lineup i think would be a net positive for Dallas over Brunson/Maxi.

(01-30-2022, 10:37 AM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]however i think his personality would fit great with Kidd

I'm not a fan of the player, but I can admit that he absolutely would instantly add to the already growing tough, edgy mindset this team is building. For a team determined to forge a defensive identity that lasts into the late season and playoffs, it would be helpful.

(01-30-2022, 10:37 AM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]On offense he is definitely an irrational confidence guy but he is an off ball play maker, great screen setter, speeds up the offense and moves the ball extremely well.

To play devil's advocate with myself again, I think it's possible that the horrible 1-v-3 offense I've seen from him in important stretches is partly due to Tatum and Brown being kind of selfish. Like, maybe some of Smart's offensive idiocy is born of frustration? 

But it seems like you've watched him, so you know: a lot of the people here who want him because they recognize his name and associate it with "defense" are going to be shocked at some of the problems this guy causes his own team on the offensive end. Again, maybe playing with a guy like Luka fixes some of that. A lot of it, even.

I think a lot of the issue with Smart in Boston was that at one point, he and Horford were the leaders of that team and now have lost their voice.  Tatum is the star but doesn't seem like a vocal leader at all.  Brown seems like a locker room lawyer who in the past has had run ins with many of teammates.  it doesn't make him wrong but it makes him less likely to be followed.  Smart has publicly called those two out for not moving the ball and that kind of drew a line in the sand of with us or against us.  for obvious reasons the team has sided with Tatum and Brown so that left smart on the outside looking in.
I think he would have a renewed energy in Dallas and if there was a way to eventually add Horford i would be all in as well.  those are the kind of vets this team needs to add.
but like i said before, adding another offensive creator is vital.  Many say Brunson is that guy but i am not 100% sold that will work in the playoffs, so with the chance he would leave this offseason, i thnk its time to make a move before the music stops and you are left without a chair again.

(01-30-2022, 10:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not a fan of the player, but I can admit that he absolutely would instantly add to the already growing tough, edgy mindset this team is building. For a team determined to forge a defensive identity that lasts into the late season and playoffs, it would be helpful.




To play devil's advocate with myself again, I think it's possible that the horrible 1-v-3 offense I've seen from him in important stretches is partly due to Tatum and Brown being kind of selfish. Like, maybe some of Smart's offensive idiocy is born of frustration? 

But it seems like you've watched him, so you know: a lot of the people here who want him because they recognize his name and associate it with "defense" are going to be shocked at some of the problems this guy causes his own team on the offensive end. Again, maybe playing with a guy like Luka fixes some of that. A lot of it, even.

He is from Flower Mound. That´s all we need to know. People from Flower Mound are awesome. On and off the court.

More serious. I don´t really see the offensive problems when he plays for the Celtics. They are actually better with him because he is the only willing passer in the starting five. Mavs are fine with Frank and/or Green on the floor. Not sure why Smart would be worse. All about the right balance and lineups.
Smart would instantly be the 3rd best ballhandler. Adding even more versatility. I really like the idea of lineups with 3-4 guys that can put the ball on the floor.

(01-30-2022, 12:13 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]He is from Flower Mound. That´s all we need to know. People from Flower Mound are awesome. On and off the court.

More serious. I don´t really see the offensive problems when he plays for the Celtics. They are actually better with him because he is the only willing passer in the starting five. Mavs are fine with Frank and/or Green on the floor. Not sure why Smart would be worse. All about the right balance and lineups.
Smart would instantly be the 3rd best ballhandler. Adding even more versatility. I really like the idea of lineups with 3-4 guys that can put the ball on the floor.

(01-30-2022, 12:22 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Smart is essentially Josh Richardson on offense. If you trade for him expecting him to be a secondary playmaker, well, welcome back to 2021.

This is a really bad comparison.  Smart is a significantly better secondary playmaker (assist rate is more than double Josh).

Offensively our biggest issue with Josh was his hesitancy to shoot.  Don't have that problem with Smart.  He probably takes a shot or two more a game than he needs to (kind of like Luka) but that's better than never pulling the trigger.

Josh was invisible when he was on this team.  You didn't even know he was on the court.  Smart plays with "force" (mostly on the defensive end) that this team desperately needs.  The two players are wildly different in impact on the court.

I feel as fans we overthink about fit. 

The first goal should be to get more skill.  Then worry about fit. The Mavs mediocrity over the past decade can be attributed mainly to them only wanting to splurge on the superstar with the right fit or attitude. A player like DAngelo Russel as an asset would have been the correct choice than spending that money on 3 lesser players. Quality over quantity. Look what GS did and how it worked out. Ironically also look at what GS did with Wiseman and choosing him for fit over Melo.  Lessons can be learned from those two transactions.  


Get Sabonis in here and he would instantly be our 2nd most skilled offensive player.  Worry about the fit later.  Don’t try to over analyze and do what the MBT did for the last decade.

(01-30-2022, 01:05 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]I feel as fans we overthink about fit. 

The first goal should be to get more skill.  Then worry about fit. The Mavs mediocrity over the past decade can be attributed mainly to them only wanting to splurge on the superstar with the right fit or attitude. A player like DAngelo Russel as an asset would have been the correct choice than spending that money on 3 lesser players. Quality over quantity. Look what GS did and how it worked out. Ironically also look at what GS did with Wiseman and choosing him for fit over Melo.  Lessons can be learned from those two transactions.  


Get Sabonis in here and he would instantly be our 2nd most skilled offensive player.  Worry about the fit later.  Don’t try to over analyze and do what the MBT did for the last decade.

The problem with this mindset is that Sabonis will be wildly expensive.  If you find yourself getting a crazy good deal, then you pull the trigger and worry about fit later.  But what are the odds we are going to get a great deal on Sabonis?  

The reason folks are focused on fit is because the underlying assumption is that you are making a reasonable market equal trade.  In that case, the whole point of a trade is to put both teams in a better position from a fit standpoint (whether is player or cap or timeline).