(01-29-2022, 02:33 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm hoping we can extend DFS so we don't have to worry about it in the offseason. I think Gump mentioned that starts at roughly 11.5? I'm guessing Robinson market is MLE. Don't know if you give him similar extension? I'm a little skeptical NY is going to give up him and a first for Brunson, or that they have any interest in Powell.
Also, does Robinson make sense next to KP? If we traded KP in another deal, then I way more interested in Mitchell.
I'd guess DFS gets north of my starting salary (rumors are he wants $15m per) and Robinson less but together, that's probably about the number. The only reason I think NY would give up Robinson is that that if they pay JB $20m+, they might not want to invest in Robinson.
I don't care about fit next to KP at all. There are plenty of minutes for a center to play when KP is healthy and he's often not heathy.
(01-29-2022, 02:33 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]It's why he finds himself in foul trouble. He has the athletic tools to be a Tyson starter kit. So could Tyson/Kidd unlock his potential and are you ready to handy out a hefty pay day for that potential?
While "Tyson starter kit" might have been the idea when he first showed promise, he's still so far from that level that I wouldn't want to bother. As for the idea of paying him a deal starting around 12M this summer, I would not. But would anyone else? I'm wondering.
1. No Randle trades.
2. I don't think NY trades Toppin in a Brunson package. It seems everyone outside of Thibs wants to see him play more. But he is stuck behind the $117 million bum. So maybe?
3. If Toppin is off the table, the Mavs need to spend some time scouting Quentin Grimes. 1st round pick. 21 years old. Was a top 10 recruit out of high school. Shooting 40% from three on high volume for the minutes he plays. Reputation as a good defender. He seems like a better 3andD prospect than Josh Green. Something like Grimes and our 23 pick back seems like fair value for Brunson.
4. Problem is it would be a major downgrade for this season.
The plus is we would have all three of our first round picks to trade and also two recent 1st rounders in Green and Grimes. Can you parlay that into a much better replacement for Brunson? or can you parlay some of that + Maxi into John Collins? Then find a Brunson replacement later?
5. Giving THJ and Brunson and DFS all market deals seems like the safe play. They're all solid players and good dudes. It keeps the team at a certain level we have become accustomed to.
But is it time for the Mavs to be more bold?
(01-29-2022, 02:44 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]While "Tyson starter kit" might have been the idea when he first showed promise, he's still so far from that level that I wouldn't want to bother. As for the idea of paying him a deal starting around 12M this summer, I would not. But would anyone else? I'm wondering.
To be fair, Robinson's not the prize of the trade, the FRP is. Maybe he gets closer to the MLE? Maybe less? And like I said, DFS + Robinson are probably going to average that number when combined.
I do have fears about dealing JB and then Ujiri playing hard ball with Dragic.
(01-29-2022, 02:49 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: [ -> ]1. No Randle trades.
2. I don't think NY trades Toppin in a Brunson package. It seems everyone outside of Thibs wants to see him play more. But he is stuck behind the $117 million bum. So maybe?
3. If Toppin is off the table, the Mavs need to spend some time scouting Quentin Grimes. 1st round pick. 21 years old. Was a top 10 recruit out of high school. Shooting 40% from three on high volume for the minutes he plays. Reputation as a good defender. He seems like a better 3andD prospect than Josh Green. Something like Grimes and our 23 pick back seems like fair value for Brunson.
4. Problem is it would be a major downgrade for this season.
The plus is we would have all three of our first round picks to trade and also two recent 1st rounders in Green and Grimes. Can you parlay that into a much better replacement for Brunson? or can you parlay some of that + Maxi into John Collins? Then find a Brunson replacement later?
5. Giving THJ and Brunson and DFS all market deals seems like the safe play. They're all solid players and good dudes. It keeps the team at a certain level we have become accustomed to.
But is it time for the Mavs to be more bold?
I love the user name.
"are you sure Toppin will ever be as good as Brunson?"
"why do you want Mitchell Robinson? he's nothing special"
Being a great front office requires you to identify under utilized and perhaps under developed players and forecasting if they could improve in your system, with your coaching, with a bigger role, etc. If you only make the no brainer moves, it's hard to improve substantially.
(speaking in general. not saying Toppin or Robinson are answers)
(01-29-2022, 02:20 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding Robinson, he'll need to be paid this offseason so what does everyone imagine his contract will look like. I'm assuming he'll be in the range of DFS. Are the Mavs willing to sign both of them a starting salaries of ~$12m?
If Mavs would get Robinson, I think it is necessary to trade Powell. So Robinson is basically replacing Powell at similar salary and Powell's money is likely used in a trade for a player of need. One we either keep next season or is expiring salary.
So, if Mavs decide to trade for Robinson, I think they can comfortably sign both him and DFS at the range you mentioned.
(01-29-2022, 03:01 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: [ -> ]"are you sure Toppin will ever be as good as Brunson?"
"why do you want Mitchell Robinson? he's nothing special"
Being a great front office requires you to identify under utilized and perhaps under developed players and forecasting if they could improve in your system, with your coaching, with a bigger role, etc. If you only make the no brainer moves, it's hard to improve substantially.
(speaking in general. not saying Toppin or Robinson are answers)
Further, we are operating under the assumption the New York rumors are true and inferring JB's intentions. If JB to New York is a foregone conclusion, the Mavs aren't exactly operating from a position of power and the chances of returning equal value for him aren't likely.
(01-29-2022, 02:49 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: [ -> ]1. No Randle trades.
2. I don't think NY trades Toppin in a Brunson package. It seems everyone outside of Thibs wants to see him play more. But he is stuck behind the $117 million bum. So maybe?
3. If Toppin is off the table, the Mavs need to spend some time scouting Quentin Grimes. 1st round pick. 21 years old. Was a top 10 recruit out of high school. Shooting 40% from three on high volume for the minutes he plays. Reputation as a good defender. He seems like a better 3andD prospect than Josh Green. Something like Grimes and our 23 pick back seems like fair value for Brunson.
4. Problem is it would be a major downgrade for this season.
The plus is we would have all three of our first round picks to trade and also two recent 1st rounders in Green and Grimes. Can you parlay that into a much better replacement for Brunson? or can you parlay some of that + Maxi into John Collins? Then find a Brunson replacement later?
5. Giving THJ and Brunson and DFS all market deals seems like the safe play. They're all solid players and good dudes. It keeps the team at a certain level we have become accustomed to.
But is it time for the Mavs to be more bold?
I was thinking a three team deal with Boston.
Dallas gets Smart and their 2023 1st back
NY get Brunson
Boston gets Maxi and Robinson.
then Dallas has two firsts to try to make a package for Collins and signs Dragic when he is hopefully bought out.
NY gets Brunson in house and it is not an expensive cost.
Bostons gets frontcourt defensive help and saves money long term. Maybe you need to send a 2nd round pick back to Boston to make it work but i still am not sure they do that deal.
(01-29-2022, 03:04 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Further, we are operating under the assumption the New York rumors are true and inferring JB's intentions.
Nico needs to earn his money here. This was the only reason to hire him. Because he is supposed to be plugged in to the rest of the league. The Mavs absolutely cannot let Brunson walk for nothing.
(01-29-2022, 03:04 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Further, we are operating under the assumption the New York rumors are true and inferring JB's intentions. If JB to New York is a foregone conclusion, the Mavs aren't exactly operating from a position of power and the chances of returning equal value for him aren't likely.
If we only can get trash, we can keep him and get trash later in a SnT.
(01-29-2022, 03:07 PM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]I was thinking a three team deal with Boston.
Dallas gets Smart and their 2023 1st back
NY get Brunson
Boston gets Maxi and Robinson.
then Dallas has two firsts to try to make a package for Collins and signs Dragic when he is hopefully bought out.
NY gets Brunson in house and it is not an expensive cost.
Bostons gets frontcourt defensive help and saves money long term. Maybe you need to send a 2nd round pick back to Boston to make it work but i still am not sure they do that deal.
From a logic exercise, what players are you including with those picks to get Collins? Rumors were that Maxi was the anchor of the Mavs offer to Atlanta but he was used in the first leg of that trade
(01-29-2022, 03:12 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]If we only can get trash, we can keep him and get trash later in a SnT.
Or the Knicks can sign him outright and we get nothing.
(01-29-2022, 03:13 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]From a logic exercise, what players are you including with those picks to get Collins? Rumors were that Maxi was the anchor of the Mavs offer to Atlanta but he was used in the first leg of that trade
Or the Knicks can sign him outright and we get nothing.
Making room for him is more expensive than what you expect in a trade.
And we don't flush this season.
Also I'm not sure why everybody thinks he will leave.
(01-29-2022, 03:13 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Or the Knicks can sign him outright and we get nothing.
Or Det, or Mia (cause they can always figure out a way to get the guy they target no matter the cost), or OKC, or any number of other teams that can get under the cap.
(01-29-2022, 03:18 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Also I'm not sure why everybody thinks he will might leave.
FifY to portray the truth.
(01-29-2022, 03:18 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]And we don't flush this season.
Ultimately, this season won't end up any differently with or without JB...1st round exit.
(01-29-2022, 03:18 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Making room for him is more expensive than what you expect in a trade.
And we don't flush this season.
Also I'm not sure why everybody thinks he will leave.
And you can't ask for more than it would to take to clear the ~$15m in the offseason to sign him outright.
Everyone is trade crafting based on the rumors that he might leave or that he might be wanting a contract northing of $20m. In an ideal world, we'd keep JB.
Something is better than nothing and nothing is a very real possibility.
if the Knicks are operating under the assumption that they can just sign him this offseason, then why are there trade rumors for him. apparently they believe there is value to getting in the front of the line. all it costs them is a low first rounder and a guy they probably won't resign this summer anyway.
as for getting Collins, i was not sure but i was hoping that his value has decreased to where two firsts plus a combo of contracts could make it happen. idk, just throwing stuff out there.
(01-29-2022, 03:28 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone is trade crafting based on the rumors that he might leave or that he might be wanting a contract northing of $20m.
or that he might believe another opportunity is better when the money is the same or similar (or even less? we know so little).
(01-29-2022, 03:29 PM)Mavs32 Wrote: [ -> ]if the Knicks are operating under the assumption that they can just sign him this offseason, then why are there trade rumors for him. apparently they believe there is value to getting in the front of the line. all it costs them is a low first rounder and a guy they probably won't resign this summer anyway.
Their committed contracts next year are already at the project cap. Taj is NG and would clear $5m. They'd need to figure out a way to clear $15m to sign JB outright. Trading for him would give them more flexibility of how to manage their cap so there is some value to trade for him.
(01-29-2022, 03:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]or that he might believe another opportunity is better when the money is the same or similar (or even less? we know so little).
Right. JB is hard one to read. I think it is safe to assume the rumors about New York wanting him are true and I think it is safe to assume JB would have interest due to his Dad's relationship with the team, what his role would be and the Knicks, and New York being a more attractive basketball market than Dallas. I'm skeptical of the $20m+ number. Being a PG next to Luka isn't always going to be easy either. JB is certainly thinking about his future earnings beyond the next contract he will sign.
OTOH, he could love being and Dallas and love playing for this team. He and the Mavs might have a number agreed upon that they are both comfortable with.
(01-29-2022, 03:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]
FifY to portray the truth.
Fair
(01-29-2022, 03:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Ultimately, this season won't end up any differently with or without JB...1st round exit.
Even if true (I think otherwise), you're surely not sending good vibes to our team or other players.