(01-28-2022, 06:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed on their likelihood, but this one feels it could happen, at least to me.
$20 million is about what I thought he'd get. Not shocked by that at all, personally, though I certainly respect your opinion that you wouldn't want him here at that number. Someone will. Guys who can create offense like him are just way too rare and valuable for him not to get paid. I think he's objectively worth quite a bit more than the Hield, THJ, Fournier class, so he'll make more than they do, I'd assume.
I can appreciate the mindset. I think Jalen can put up numbers anywhere and be modestly successful but I don't think you can build a contender around him, especially when he is going to command such a large contract. His number is about to get really big for someone so limited. He's almost the anthesis of JB.
I was just looking at Fournier's contract earlier and I can't imagine anyone wanting to trade for him. Everyone knows how I feel about THJ but at least he and Buddy have descending contract. All three are grossly overpaid but my line of thinking is outdated.
I think the Toppin/Smart trades are in the realm of reality. I don't really like Smart's contract though.
I’m seriously confused why some here seem to think Jalen Brunson can’t be [fill in the blank], is too small to defend in the playoffs, and wants to play for that mess of a franchise in NY. He looks VanVleet-level to me already, and is improving every year. Why wouldn’t we back up the Brinks truck for this guy?
Player 1: 23 years old 8/4 in 16 MPG 54/25/78
Player 2: 24 years old 6/3 in 10 MPG 58/44/63
So eh.....what am I missing.
(01-28-2022, 06:00 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if the Lakers would be interested in Bullock + Brunson for THT.
I wouldn't help the Lakers even if they gave us AD. I am that against helping them in any way.
(01-28-2022, 06:00 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a huge Smart fan but his contract is going to get brutal starting next year. I guess it depends what you are sending out to price match. DFS + Smart + Green would be a nice rotation of defense.
I would argue that's some if not THE best perimeter defense in the league.
(01-28-2022, 06:00 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not advocating just theory crafting. I have no dog in the Toppin hunt as I know next to nothing about him.
The problem with Grant is I'm assuming you are using THJ for pricing matching purposes and Brunson + THJ might need a sweetener to get that done.
I haven't gotten into the details (besides the Boston deal). I just used Brunson for Grant as the framework. THJ actually makes sense for Detroit even injured so I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't need a sweetener.
I do wonder if there's a 3-teamer here with DET and Boston that actually sends Grant to Boston and Smart+Horford to the Mavs. The only issue is that it doesn't solve the Celtics PG problems. Unless they really like Killian Hayes or Corey Joseph..
I'm probably overcomplicating it. I still think Boston would be more than happy to send Smart for Brunson as the baseline.
(01-28-2022, 06:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]For Toppin, I'm into taking the chance. There are others, like Bagley, who I'm completely out on, but Toppin feels like a great Luka-friendly fit to me. Just my opinion.
I'm so curious as to WHY you think this though. What have you seen that I've missed that makes you feel like that? I see Toppin as a potential Aaron Gordon type at best. And sure if he fulfills that potential it's what we're looking for. But I haven't seen it yet. Maybe there's a chance he does. But I think this team is running out of time for chances.
(01-28-2022, 06:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]All of this is predicated on the Mavs knowing they can't keep Brunson, of course. There's no question Brunson is the better player right now, and he might always be!
I actually think the Mavs know Brunsons plans right now. Based on the answers from Brunson himself in that BR interview I think he's ready to move on and be the lead guard for his own team. So I do hope they trade him and cash in on his value while it's at it's absolute peak and my ideal return would be 1 starter and 1 bench piece at the absolute minimum.
(01-28-2022, 08:03 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't help the Lakers even if they gave us AD. I am that against helping them in any way.
Lakers are not going to chip short of figuring out a way to turn Westbrook into something meaningful which is highly unlikely. If Kidd signs off on THT, I'm on board.
(01-28-2022, 07:37 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]I’m seriously confused why some here seem to think Jalen Brunson can’t be [fill in the blank], is too small to defend in the playoffs, and wants to play for that mess of a franchise in NY. He looks VanVleet-level to me already, and is improving every year. Why wouldn’t we back up the Brinks truck for this guy?
I don't think that's a bad comp but look at what a team featuring FVV is doing right now. They are a .500 team. I think JB could help any team get to the playoffs. I just don't think he'll be the reason any team has a deep run. That said, I could be and am often wrong.
(01-28-2022, 01:50 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]... and now they are dealing him for a guy they can sign this summer with a little bit of player movement...
Oh? Brunson is now a lock to NY, one way or another, period? Just at their beck and call, easy peasy?
I figure you probably didn't mean it quite that strongly.
But I do think there's a sense of that "NY inevitability" being used as a given in some of the conversations here ...and I have a hard time buying it. Possible? Sure. But I think the Mavs would be the best bet, if they have decided they will pay what it takes with no worries about tax. In Dallas, JB already knows the team, the fit, his role, and more.
In fact, I think that Mavs option is what's driving NY to be so obsessed for a trade (rather than a fa chase that only costs money.) If the Mavs will trade him to NY, it takes their biggest competition out of the equation, before it even begins.
(01-28-2022, 07:59 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Player 1: 23 years old 8/4 in 16 MPG 54/25/78
Player 2: 24 years old 6/3 in 10 MPG 58/44/63
So eh.....what am I missing.
I have no idea who these two folks are, but assessing young players with simple stats is probably not the best way to go.
(01-28-2022, 07:37 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]I’m seriously confused why some here seem to think Jalen Brunson can’t be [fill in the blank], is too small to defend in the playoffs, and wants to play for that mess of a franchise in NY. He looks VanVleet-level to me already, and is improving every year. Why wouldn’t we back up the Brinks truck for this guy?
He is not VanVleet level. That guy is an elite (or at least really good) perimeter defender. Brunson is below average. That is a really big difference. Also, VanVleet is a high level high volume three point shooter, and made big shots at the highest level. He is the perfect match with Luka. I like Brunson as a player, but he is not in VanVleet class, and likely will never be.
(01-28-2022, 08:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I actually think the Mavs know Brunsons plans right now. Based on the answers from Brunson himself in that BR interview I think he's ready to move on and be the lead guard for his own team. So I do hope they trade him and cash in on his value while it's at it's absolute peak and my ideal return would be 1 starter and 1 bench piece at the absolute minimum.
Curious where you saw that in the interview? It read to me like 'free agency 101' (as performed by a competent speaker)--nothing to close any doors, nothing to make anyone feel secure enough to lowball me, no giving away your hand before the negotiations start.
(01-28-2022, 11:31 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Curious where you saw that in the interview? It read to me like 'free agency 101' (as performed by a competent speaker)--nothing to close any doors, nothing to make anyone feel secure enough to lowball me, no giving away your hand before the negotiations start.
I mean there wasn't anything explicit and me just interpreting his tone/general phrasing. I could (most likely) be wrong.
The way he phrased his answer where he was non-committal about the Mavs franchise as a whole and put all the onus on his teammates. Which isn't bad. But if he wanted to he could've been a bit more positive about being with the Mavs long term.
Of course, this could be a valid negotiation tactic. It probably is. But to me if the Mavs do keep Brunson past the deadline, they better be ready to pay him whatever he wants, because the alternative leaves the Mavs with no assets and no avenue to improving. That scenario scares me so much so that I'd rather turn Jalen into 1-2 startable players NOW than take that risk. Especially because I'm dubious of how he'll perform in the playoffs against teams like the Jazz, Warriors, and Suns. 2 of which the Mavs have to get past to make a deep run.
(01-28-2022, 11:31 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Curious where you saw that in the interview? It read to me like 'free agency 101' (as performed by a competent speaker)--nothing to close any doors, nothing to make anyone feel secure enough to lowball me, no giving away your hand before the negotiations start.
This is spot on.
The player doesn't know who will offer what, so he loves everyone and the opportunity to be courted. He wants to get paid!! It may not be only about who offers the MOST money, but until he knows who is willing to be in the upper tier, he's gonna show love to 'em all.
I wouldn't want JB to be traded to New York. I'm quite sure there are other teams that could offer better.
But if it really is the Knicks, I'm just going to put here some players to consider.
Toppin - is the Maxi help the Mavs are seeking, but could also fill-in the DP role as well. Expect Toppin's numbers to go up with lobs Luka would be sending him. Toppin must be part of any Knick package.
We know very well what the Mavs can get with Quickley and Robinson so here's the other 2 guys that might warrant considerations:
Grimes - THJ's offense has been reduced to of catch-an-shoot-or-pull-up-from-3 over the years. Grimes game is just that. And he offers better defense than THJ, even for a rookie.
Burks - is the guy I wanted the Mavs to sign as the THJ-lite instead of THJ himself. If the Mavs are trading THJ or doesn't expect THJ to come back healthy, Burks is a source of offense. Would offer New York Bullock for him as part of the bigger deal or a separate deal.
(01-29-2022, 04:42 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Is anyone subscribed to share what is inside?
Quick excerpt I found on Reddit:
Quote:Quote:Two Fridays ago, I wrote about the longstanding affinity Pistons GM Troy Weaver has for Jerami Grant and how that could lead to Detroit rebuffing all the trade interest in Grant at the deadline in a prime potential example of even a supposed selling team refusing to sell. Some rival clubs are now describing what amounts to a split within the organization about keeping or trading Grant … with Pistons vice chairman Arn Tellem said to be open to an immediate trade. Among the issues working against a deal: Detroit wants a relative haul for Grant while Grant is said to be seeking a considerable role offensively with a new team as well a four-year contract extension in excess of $100 million. Sacramento has been mentioned this week as a determined Grant suitor but it is unclear whether the Kings can meet the Pistons’ asking price. Atlanta, I’m told, is not actively pursuing Grant (with the obligatory caveat thrown in that there is still time for that stance to change).
Quote:The Kings, by contrast, are struggling to convince rival teams that their recent proclamation, via The Athletic, that they intend to build around the duo of Tyrese Haliburton and De'Aaron Fox is genuine. Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley III remain the three Kings most likely to be traded before the deadline, but there is a sense among some rival executives that Fox remains gettable. Road losses in Boston and Atlanta by a combined 70 points this week haven’t done much to alter that perception.
(01-28-2022, 09:04 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Oh? Brunson is now a lock to NY, one way or another, period? Just at their beck and call, easy peasy?
I figure you probably didn't mean it quite that strongly.
But I do think there's a sense of that "NY inevitability" being used as a given in some of the conversations here ...and I have a hard time buying it. Possible? Sure. But I think the Mavs would be the best bet, if they have decided they will pay what it takes with no worries about tax. In Dallas, JB already knows the team, the fit, his role, and more.
In fact, I think that Mavs option is what's driving NY to be so obsessed for a trade (rather than a fa chase that only costs money.) If the Mavs will trade him to NY, it takes their biggest competition out of the equation, before it even begins.
???? I'm not sure I get the first sentence. The full thought that you partially quoted reads...
"The trick is NY just sold their fan base on him as a high lottery pick and now they are dealing him for a guy they can sign this summer with a little bit of player movement? So, at its most simple level (JB for Toppin) it is a tough sell in NY."
It is intended to answer Davemo's question by illustrating one of the
difficulties of any deal involving Toppin...selling the NY fan base. So, not easy peasy at all.
I get your point about "NY inevitability". Kind of like national writers constantly proposing trades involving Lakers trash for valuable players from the other team. I happen to think there is more smoke here than just that. How long have we been talking about this. It started when Rose took the job about 23 months ago and intensified when you correctly told us there wasn't a team option on Brunson a few months later. With the caveat that the probability of any particular trade is really low, this is a train we've seen coming for a really long time. I don't doubt Rose's interest in Brunson. The question to me is timing and price.
What I tried to show yesterday is NY has options. They can get enough for 4/$80mm by simply moving Rose, their pick and dropping the NG on Gibson. Easy Peasy? That certainly isn't difficult. But, as you point out, Dallas is a strong competitor in that scenario. So, what more should NY add to a Rose/Pick based deal to take Dallas out of the running? Meanwhile, Dallas has risk here. The question for them is what offer, that also eliminates our risk, is too good to pass up. I find it hard to justify a Brunson deal on a stand alone basis. But when I start to look at what else might happen given access to picks, I start to get intrigued.
Last point...you mention Brunson knows the team, fit and role. Yes, but we don't know that Brunson likes the team, fit and role. We don't anything about what Brunson really wants (or his agent for that matter). For all we know Brunson grew up dreaming of playing in the Garden his entire life. For all we know Brunson may think Rose is the greatest man he's ever met and Cuban is a complete buffoon. I think there is way too much unknown for us to ascribe motives from a distance. If I were his agent, I'd want Brunson in the place where he has the greatest leverage. I think that would be NY after NY gave up assets to get him. Leverage in Dallas is largely dependent on whether Brunson likes Detroit or whether NY clears the cap space.