MavsBoard

(01-21-2022, 09:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]First, you can't trade the 2022 first until the pick is made, which means this can't be done until June and at that point Orlando can't send Harris at his current expiring deal to trade match Hardaway.

But even if you could, if you leave Bamba out of this (optional), you are paying to give Hardaway away.  If he's so bad you have to drop down in the draft several spots to move him, then the TDL is hopeless.  Green would take that spot in the rotation, so there is no point in signing Harris to a contract that is worth less than the TP MLE.  Plus you already have Brown and Frank who do similar things for much less.

You've posted this several times and until you made the Bamba part optional, I assumed you had a higher opinion of Bamba than I do.  If you watch how we are defending right now, we need bigs who are more mobile than Bamba (if healthy Turner wasn't going to work, Bamba certainly won't).  I think PJ Washington or Batum or Thaddeus Young or Toppin would be much better fits for this scheme.  I'd like to get a guy like that and move Maxi to the bench with Powell.  I'd also like an upgrade over Burke as our third PG.  The question is how can you deal for any of that without giving up DFS, JB or Green when we can't deal a pick until 2026?

Teams do that pick swap BS to circumvent the non-consecutive rule all the time. Question is whether you can also do that with a 1st and 2nd round pick. "If the pick doesn´t fall into the top 16 the Magic have the option to swap their 2nd for our 1st."

You can easily get the Knicks to waive that protection and we can trade our 2025+ picks for Lillard. It looks like the Knicks have their own big plan for Zion, and the more unprotected picks they can offer the Pelicans the better for them. So having an unprotected Mavs picks makes even more sense under these circumstances.

If Cuban is willing to pay for THJ + Brunson + DFS + Powell + Kleber, I´ll happily keep THJ for the Lillard trade.

I like the team, we just need a Lillard-esque upgrade for THJ and one legit C. We don´t need to trade half the team. They earned that trust over the last 25 games. The only question marks are the Porzingis health evalution and the Brunson/DFS re-sign status. Those are not on-court performance issues.

This team doesn´t have the guaranteed 1st round exit stink all over them. It´s not a championship team yet, but NOW it´s good enough that a Beal or Lillard could buy into being the missing piece (and some ring-chasing minimum veterans)

(01-21-2022, 11:56 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I like the team, we just need a Lillard-esque upgrade for THJ and one legit C

So, does this mean you don't consider KP the C? Because the majority of us do, and in theory that's 35 of the 48 center minutes, right there. So, do you still think that playing him with another center is the way to go, or are you talking about a bench upgrade for that other 13-20 minutes? Because I actually think the combo of Powell and Chriss (depending on the situation) is great for that smaller role.

(01-21-2022, 11:56 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Teams do that pick swap BS to circumvent the non-consecutive rule all the time. Question is whether you can also do that with a 1st and 2nd round pick. "If the pick doesn´t fall into the top 16 the Magic have the option to swap their 2nd for our 1st."

The Mavs cannot include their 1st this year legally in any trade. At all. Full stop. The Stepien rule explicitly states you can't go 2 drafts in a row without a first round pick, so you can't do a pick swap between a 1st and a 2nd to circumvent the Stepien rule. 

(01-21-2022, 11:56 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]You can easily get the Knicks to waive that protection and we can trade our 2025+ picks for Lillard. It looks like the Knicks have their own big plan for Zion, and the more unprotected picks they can offer the Pelicans the better for them. So having an unprotected Mavs picks makes even more sense under these circumstances.

If it was so easy I'm sure the Mavs would have done it already. And as much as I would like Lillard I don't see how any Mavs package is nearly as attractive as say a 76ers package or even a pick based OKC package. 

(01-21-2022, 11:56 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I like the team, we just need a Lillard-esque upgrade for THJ and one legit C. We don´t need to trade half the team. They earned that trust over the last 25 games. The only question marks are the Porzingis health evalution and the Brunson/DFS re-sign status. Those are not on-court performance issues.

This team doesn´t have the guaranteed 1st round exit stink all over them. It´s not a championship team yet, but NOW it´s good enough that a Beal or Lillard could buy into being the missing piece (and some ring-chasing minimum veterans)

I actually I agree with you we are 1 star away from being finals bound. I just don't see the Lillard angle as much as I'd like to. Brandon Ingram is the name I keep coming back to and his fit next to Luka. He's also a long lanky defender that is switchable which fits Kidd's defensive philosophy.

(01-21-2022, 12:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Brandon Ingram

Would love him at the 4. Not sure there's a way for it to happen, but I'm into it.

(01-21-2022, 12:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs cannot include their 1st this year legally in any trade. At all. Full stop. The Stepien rule explicitly states you can't go 2 drafts in a row without a first round pick, so you can't do a pick swap between a 1st and a 2nd to circumvent the Stepien rule. 


If it was so easy I'm sure the Mavs would have done it already. And as much as I would like Lillard I don't see how any Mavs package is nearly as attractive as say a 76ers package or even a pick based OKC package. 


I actually I agree with you we are 1 star away from being finals bound. I just don't see the Lillard angle as much as I'd like to. Brandon Ingram is the name I keep coming back to and his fit next to Luka. He's also a long lanky defender that is switchable which fits Kidd's defensive philosophy.

You are correct. Though we have all see the Stepien rule can be circumvented, if teams really want to. As long as the NBA is happy with the outcome like moving a big superstar into a major market. I guess if we tried any outrageous shenanigans for a basic Gary Harris/THJ trade, they´d happily step on our throat. But not going to get hung up on some technicalities here. Make it three 2nd round picks instead of the swap and you still have a deal. 

Removing the protection is as easy as calling the Knicks, but first you need the sufficient superstar trade. Of course you are not offering to remove the pick protection until then.

Ingram could definitely work, but not sure he´d solve the play-making problem that we also saw in the Suns game. Luka and Brunson combined for 14 turnovers, when the Suns started to double them aggressively. Adding a third guard in that situation means you cannot single out one player and Lillard also has better instincts when and how to relief that double team pressure by making himself available, whereas DFS and Kleber are "spot-up monkeys" that don´t read the situations properly.

(01-21-2022, 11:34 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Batum is as diehard for the Clips as you're making it seem. Yes he took a slight discount to stay with them. I'm sure he also wanted to stay because 1) he wants to win a ring and a team with George and Kawhi is a pretty good place to do so. 2) They took a chance on him and helped revitalize his career.

Like you say if the Clips were to trade him, I think that would sour him a bit on returning. At least in my mind it would. Here he takes a discount and 6 months later they trade him to avoid tax penalties.

In any case, Batum would help the Mavs so much. Same with Ibaka. 2 long defenders that are a vet presence and know how to win. Both of them and Dragic would take the Mavs to the 2nd round easily.

I would not be surprised if somebody (possibly even the Mavs) offered Batum the full MLE.  I would have preferred him to Bullock.

(01-21-2022, 10:41 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Am I right, if we traded for Dragic we could re-sign him and not use the MLE?  But if he is bought out, then the only way to resign him is via the MLE?

I would imagine if he did wind up here, it would not just be for the remaining part of the year.  He is probably looking for something longer.   So if you could trade for him, couldn't you use the MLE for a guy like Batum or someone else in that price range?  You could probably get both for close to the Hardaway salary next year.

Yes, if we trade for him then we have full bird rights and can sign him to anything.  If we sign him after a buy-out, then we can only sign him to a minimum, and we we would have to use an exception (depending on his cost) next year to sign him for anything other than the min.

The other advantage of the trade is that we potentially get him here sooner, which is better for this year and gives more time to assess what he has left in the tank for potential following years.

(01-21-2022, 12:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs cannot include their 1st this year legally in any trade. At all. Full stop. The Stepien rule explicitly states you can't go 2 drafts in a row without a first round pick, so you can't do a pick swap between a 1st and a 2nd to circumvent the Stepien rule. 

Just to be clear, it is two consecutive “future” drafts, not two drafts in a row.  The issue now is that we don’t have a 2023 pick, not that we didn’t make a pick in the 2021 draft.

We can do a pick swap for another 2022 pick if it is guaranteed to be made in the first round.  The issue with 2021’s proposal was swapping our 22 first round pick for a 22 pick in the second round.  That is a no go because we don’t have our 2023. 

You are correct that removing the protection on 2023 is not as easy as snapping one’s fingers.  There is a precedent for the team requesting the removal of protection having to pay to do it (see the Jrue Holiday deal where the Bucks had to pay to remove protections on a pick to allow them to send picks to NO).

(01-21-2022, 12:14 PM)deMavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Though we have all see the Stepien rule can be circumvented, if teams really want to.  

Not sure how you define "circumvented." The rule never gets violated. Teams have to find a different trade offer instead.

So right now, the Mavs are NOT eligible to trade their 2022 1st, except if they get an unprotected 2022 or 2023 1st back in the same trade. Or, they can trade theirs if/after they do a prior trade to get an unprotected 2022 or 2023 1st. 

For practical purposes, we should just accept the Mavs trading their 2022 1st is a non-starter idea until after the 2022 draft is over, as was said.

(01-21-2022, 12:59 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Just to be clear, it is two consecutive “future” drafts, not two drafts in a row.  The issue now is that we don’t have a 2023 pick, not that we didn’t make a pick in the 2021 draft.

We can do a pick swap for another 2022 pick if it is guaranteed to be made in the first round.  The issue with 2021’s proposal was swapping our 22 first round pick for a 22 pick in the second round.  That is a no go because we don’t have our 2023. 

You are correct that removing the protection on 2023 is not as easy as snapping one’s fingers.  There is a precedent for the team requesting the removal of protection having to pay to do it (see the Jrue Holiday deal where the Bucks had to pay to remove protections on a pick to allow them to send picks to NO).

Thanks for the clarification. 

Seems to me as long as the Mavs grab a 2023 pick from anyone it will free up all of our current picks for use. Now if only there was a team desperate enough to pay a first for THJ!

Tor?

(01-21-2022, 04:11 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the clarification. 

Seems to me as long as the Mavs grab a 2023 pick from anyone it will free up all of our current picks for use. Now if only there was a team desperate enough to pay a first for THJ!

Since our own '23, which NY owns, has protections and isn't guaranteed to convey, I don't think that is true.  Getting someone else's '23, would allow us to trade our '22 or the the '23 we obtained.  Our '23 pick has top 10 protection in '23-25 and if it doesn't convey, it becomes a 2nd rounder in '25.  I believe the earliest draft pick we can offer currently is '27.  I'm not sure if you could trade a conditional FRP based on the owed '23 pick conveying though.

I wonder who this "candor" is aimed at:


76ers president Daryl Morey sees ‘deals with Kings that would work’ in Ben Simmons trade BY JASON ANDERSON
 

Philadelphia 76ers president Daryl Morey mentioned the Kings as a potential trade partner for Ben Simmons in an interview with a local radio station Thursday, saying he sees the possibility of a deal with Sacramento. Morey discussed the Simmons saga on “The Anthony Gargano Show” on 97.5 The Fanatic in Philadelphia. 

Morey hinted the 76ers might be willing to lower their asking price for Simmons in order to build a championship team around Joel Embiid, who is averaging 28.0 points and 10.6 rebounds. 

“I can tell you that, for sure, there are deals with the Sacramento Kings that I think would work,” Morey said. “Will those deals ever happen? I have no idea. Are there just trade deals with the Kings? Probably not. Is it multiple teams? Probably, but for sure there are deals that are possible that would go over our line. 

 “I do think with how great Joel is, our line has moved down a little bit because Joel has lifted us into contention by his sheer will of greatness this year. That does push the number of deals that we would do, more likely, if that makes any sense.” 

Morey said the 76ers would like to get a deal done before the Feb. 10 trade deadline and “there’s a better chance that happens because of how great Joel has been.” Sacramento would likely be willing to send some combination of Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley III and draft compensation to Philadelphia for Simmons, but the 76ers might want the Kings to include De’Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton in the deal. The Kings have sent mixed signals about their willingness to trade Fox, but The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported Wednesday that Sacramento plans to keep building around Fox and Haliburton. 

Simmons, 25, is a three-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA Defensive First Team selection and former Rookie of the Year who has career averages of 15.9 points, 8.1 rebounds and 7.7 assists. The Kings have been identified as a potential suitor for Simmons since the disgruntled star demanded a trade in August. Simmons was the No. 1 pick in the 2016 NBA draft and the 2018 NBA Rookie of the Year. He is uniquely gifted as a 6-11, 240-pound point guard who rebounds, runs the floor and facilitates for others. He is a career 14.7% 3-point shooter and 59.7% free-throw shooter, but he still finds ways to score with efficiency, as evidenced by his career scoring average and .560 shooting percentage. Simmons is in the second year of a massive five-year, $177.2 million deal that will pay him $35.4 million next season, $37.9 million in 2023-24 and $40.3 million in 2024-25. 

The 76ers have reportedly talked to the Kings and Atlanta Hawks about a larger deal that would include Simmons and Tobias Harris, who is in the third year of a five-year, $180 million deal. Simmons and Harris are owed a combined $73 million next season. The Athletic’s Sam Amick reported Wednesday that the Kings have no interest in acquiring Harris in a deal for Simmons.

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacram...rylink=cpy

(01-22-2022, 07:14 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Since our own '23, which NY owns, has protections and isn't guaranteed to convey, I don't think that is true.  Getting someone else's '23, would allow us to trade our '22 or the the '23 we obtained.  Our '23 pick has top 10 protection in '23-25 and if it doesn't convey, it becomes a 2nd rounder in '25.  I believe the earliest draft pick we can offer currently is '27.  I'm not sure if you could trade a conditional FRP based on the owed '23 pick conveying though.

Wait I think you're correct here. 

"Dallas' 1st round pick to New York protected for selections 1-10 in 2023, 1-10 in 2024 and 1-10 in 2025; if Dallas has not conveyed a 1st round pick to New York by 2025, then Dallas will instead convey its 2025 2nd round pick to New York [Dallas-New York, 1/31/2019]"

^ This is from RealGM's tracker for teams current picks. That 1-10 protection in 2025 is the kicker. Pretty sure that prevents us from being able to trade 2025, even if it doesn't convey.

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(01-22-2022, 04:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder who this "candor" is aimed at:

I can't remember the last time GM was so open about what teams they're talking to potentially trade with and go even further and say there are only certain packages that would fit their needs. 

I for one am ready to put this whole Ben Simmons thing to rest.

Simmons + Harris --> SAC

Barnes + Hield + Halliburton + pick(s) --> PHI

Holmes --> DAL (TPE)

(01-22-2022, 04:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder who this "candor" is aimed at:

Maybe aimed at Simmons, himself?

"You know you're about to be stuck in Sacramento, right? Not one of the places you want to play...Are you sure you don't want to give it one more try here?'

Just a thought - I'm not sure.

(01-22-2022, 05:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe aimed at Simmons, himself?

"You know you're about to be stuck in Sacramento, right? Not one of the places you want to play...Are you sure you don't want to give it one more try here?'

Just a thought - I'm not sure.

That makes the most sense to me honestly. If Morey was trying to negotiate with other teams he wouldn't have to be so frank with the media. This defintiely seems like "Hey Benny if you don't play ball we're shipping you to basketball purgatory."

At this point what would "playing ball" look like? Like, do they want him to literally play basketball for their team?

(01-22-2022, 10:14 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]At this point what would "playing ball" look like? Like, do they want him to literally play basketball for their team?

It's all speculation (of course), but I think they'd prefer that to what they're getting offered for him now, yeah. If he comes back this year maybe it works out, or maybe they can at least get some better offers for him over the summer. 

It's what I'd want in their shoes.