MavsBoard

(01-24-2022, 09:15 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]-I think there is a very real chance Brunson gets traded.  If he makes it to free agency, there is a very real chance someone will pay him more than the MBT are comfortable with.  I've said this before but if I'm Jalen, my negotiation with the Mavs starts at THJ's contract.  He plays better and is more valuable to the team, so why wouldn't he ask for that type of contract?  And much like THJ, I just don't think he's worth that much money.  Sorry to harp, but it's another reason why the THJ was terrible.  Atlanta knew what they had and were happy to let the Knicks overpay.  The Knicks were glad to be rid of him.  We are the only team to have repeated the mistake with him.  He's a $12m per type of player.

-Speaking of THJ, I think he is being shopped, but they just aren't going to salary dump him.  His contract sucks but I don't think it's unmovable or expensive to do so.  He's a good teammate and wants to be here.  I think the size of his contract is also valuable if you want an upgrade (think along the line of Grant or McCollum) if we want to spend other assets to do so, you still need salary matching.  

-I'm assuming C is DFS and not THJ.  DFS is going to command a much smaller contract so I think the intention is to keep him.

Also, I don't consider THJ a Nico signing.  I think this up-coming offseason will be the one to give him credit for.

If they are going to trade Brunson, I would be really curious what that would be for.  Something like Kemba and 2 firsts would make a lot of sense, but it is hard to see this FO do that without making some kind of use of those picks and legitimately replace Brunson.  I'm struggling to think what that could be.  It really is a shame Brogdon cannot be traded.  Something around a Brunson + THJ for Brogdon could make a lot of sense.

(01-24-2022, 11:26 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]That is interesting.   I need to watch more of Covington.  I fully expect Bullock and Hardaway to be here after the trading deadline.   

Although just for thoughts, a Covington for Bullock trade is interesting.  Covington is more of a power forward and he and Maxi can share those minutes.  Bullock is more of wing defender.   Question is does Bullock provide any value for Portland??

One step further, what happened if you could then move Hardaway to a team, Toronto gets something from that X team, and Dallas gets Dragic.

Does Dragic plus Covington improve this team if they replaced Bullock and Hardaway?

I think Roco is on the downhill side, more reputation with fans than stellar play. If up to me, I only consider him as an MLE signing in July, but not in trade giving up assets.

Re alternatives mentioned from time to time, I think Grant isn't as good as his stats (player on very bad team, getting stats because someone will), but he also wants to be The Guy getting all the shots, somewhere. No thank you.

The guy I like a lot is Collins, who I think would be great here if you can get him. The contract would be tough to add, forcing MC to make a major commitment, but he's the guy imo. I wouldn't offer JB (who wouldn't be a good fit there anyhow) but could THJ-DFS-pick and eating a bad salary with the TPE get you close?

(01-24-2022, 11:26 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]That is interesting.   I need to watch more of Covington.  I fully expect Bullock and Hardaway to be here after the trading deadline.   

Although just for thoughts, a Covington for Bullock trade is interesting.  Covington is more of a power forward and he and Maxi can share those minutes.  Bullock is more of wing defender.   Question is does Bullock provide any value for Portland??

One step further, what happened if you could then move Hardaway to a team, Toronto gets something from that X team, and Dallas gets Dragic.

Does Dragic plus Covington improve this team if they replaced Bullock and Hardaway?

That would be best case scenario for me.  I think that is both a better team and a better cap managed team.  Then in the offseason we could sign Brunson and DFS and possibly squeeze in Covington and Dragic under the tax if we can get them on reasonable deals.  If they both walk then we could sign an MLE and stay under the tax.

Bullock makes plenty of sense for Portland.  They don't have anything resembling a point of attack defender.  They also get him for 2 and a half more years as opposed to the rental Covington who they may be concerned about keeping.

(01-24-2022, 11:40 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]If they are going to trade Brunson, I would be really curious what that would be for.  Something like Kemba and 2 firsts would make a lot of sense, but it is hard to see this FO do that without making some kind of use of those picks and legitimately replace Brunson.  I'm struggling to think what that could be.  It really is a shame Brogdon cannot be traded.  Something around a Brunson + THJ for Brogdon could make a lot of sense.

Put the shoe on the other foot.  Would you pay two first round picks for Brunson, who is a UFA after this season?  I just don't see it.  Jalen is worth something.  I'm not sure his bird rights are considering the type of contract he'll end up signing.  If you are a team that wants him and thinks he'll help you achieve success right away, you might do a trade as a show of good will towards him and help with agreeing on his next contract and to ultimately achieve your playoff aspirations.  Knicks are in the 11th seed in the East right now.  Jalen would certainly make them better but they'd still be a play-in team or 7th or 8th seed.  How much is that worth to that organization?  

I think you'd be lucky to get your 23 FRP back (I believe that's the only first that New York owns that year) and maybe a contract dump.  Powell for Kemba?  Kemba would help fill some of the void that Brunson is going to leave, but Powell's been playing sneaky good for a while.  Bullock for Kemba?  Bullock's been playing okay as well.  Even if we do land Dragic, I still think you need a Kemba like skillset to fill the void.  

I think it's all predicated on the Mavericks discussions with Jalen to see if he wants to be here long term and if the Mavs can afford what he's asking.  That's why I thought the Robinson for Brunson swap was interesting as I'm assuming the Knicks are having that same discussion with Mitchell.  I'm also assuming that Mitchell's next contract is going to be less than Brunson's.  Knicks have about $119m committed for 2022.  $24m of that is team options on Barrett, Toppin, Reddish and Quickly.  Taj is $5m non-guaranteed.   Adding Brunson to the mix would put them in a similar place as the Mavericks, but instead of a decision on DFS, they'd have a decision on Robinson.

(01-25-2022, 12:01 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Put the shoe on the other foot.  Would you pay two first round picks for Brunson, who is a UFA after this season?  I just don't see it.  Jalen is worth something.  I'm not sure his bird rights are considering the type of contract he'll end up signing.  If you are a team that wants him and thinks he'll help you achieve success right away, you might do a trade as a show of good will towards him and help with agreeing on his next contract and to ultimately achieve your playoff aspirations.  Knicks are in the 11th seed in the East right now.  Jalen would certainly make them better but they'd still be a play-in team or 7th or 8th seed.  How much is that worth to that organization?  

I think you'd be lucky to get your 23 FRP back (I believe that's the only first that New York owns that year) and maybe a contract dump.  Powell for Kemba?  Kemba would help fill some of the void that Brunson is going to leave, but Powell's been playing sneaky good for a while.  Bullock for Kemba?  Bullock's been playing okay as well.  Even if we do land Dragic, I still think you need a Kemba like skillset to fill the void.  

I think it's all predicated on the Mavericks discussions with Jalen to see if he wants to be here long term and if the Mavs can afford what he's asking.  That's why I thought the Robinson for Brunson swap was interesting as I'm assuming the Knicks are having that same discussion with Mitchell.  I'm also assuming that Mitchell's next contract is going to be less than Brunson's.  Knicks have about $119m committed for 2022.  $24m of that is team options on Barrett, Toppin, Reddish and Quickly.  Taj is $5m non-guaranteed.   Adding Brunson to the mix would put them in a similar place as the Mavericks, but instead of a decision on DFS, they'd have a decision on Robinson.

If I am dumping contracts I probably lean towards Burke and that ridiculous player option.

If we are lucky to get our 23 and a small dump, then you hold on to Brunson and pay him his market value unless he tells you he is bailing.

Don't really see the point of Mitchell if we are committed to KP.  They don't fit.

(01-25-2022, 12:13 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]If I am dumping contracts I probably lean towards Burke and that ridiculous player option.

If we are lucky to get our 23 and a small dump, then you hold on to Brunson and pay him his market value unless he tells you he is bailing.

Don't really see the point of Mitchell if we are committed to KP.  They don't fit.

How are you getting back '23 without sending Brunson though?

It's my own personal biases, but KP wouldn't be in my long term thinking.  Injuries aside, there are too many things I just hate about his game.  That said, I doubt the Mavericks will trade him.

My ideal at the moment would be to trade THJ for something more useful, even if the contract coming back has years left on it, go into the tax and build around Luka/Brunson  for the long term.  I still kind of think that team's ceiling is Dame/CJ, but I'm not sure you can do a lot better.

-------------------------

And speaking of cap relief and asset management, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs flipped Maxi for an expiring and pick at the TDL.  That would give you more cap flexibility to retain DFS/Brunson.  Can't keep everyone, right?

(01-24-2022, 11:50 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The guy I like a lot is Collins, who I think would be great here if you can get him. The contract would be tough to add, forcing MC to make a major commitment, but he's the guy imo. I wouldn't offer JB (who wouldn't be a good fit there anyhow) but could THJ-DFS-pick and eating a bad salary with the TPE get you close?

The guy I'd add in a Collins deal would be Maxi, not DFS. And that makes sense for ATL. They're looking for a defensive minded low usage 4 that can hit the three. 

THJ+Maxi can bring back a shade under 38 mil alone. Bogdanovic+Collins is 41 mil. Add Burke or Brown (or dare I say Josh Green) and that gets you right where you need to be.

(01-25-2022, 12:37 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The guy I'd add in a Collins deal would be Maxi, not DFS. And that makes sense for ATL. They're looking for a defensive minded low usage 4 that can hit the three. 

THJ+Maxi can bring back a shade under 38 mil alone. Bogdanovic+Collins is 41 mil. Add Burke or Brown (or dare I say Josh Green) and that gets you right where you need to be.

You'd probably need to trade Brunson to get your '23 back as I don't think the Mavs '27 pick is all that attractive to anyone at the moment.  I guess that's okay if you are getting Bogdan as the Brunson replacement, but that dude has missed a bunch of games (44/72 last year, 28/46 this year).  I also wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta would prefer to swap Gallo instead and they still might want multiple FRPs in the deal.

(01-25-2022, 12:37 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The guy I'd add in a Collins deal would be Maxi, not DFS. And that makes sense for ATL. They're looking for a defensive minded low usage 4 that can hit the three. 

THJ+Maxi can bring back a shade under 38 mil alone. Bogdanovic+Collins is 41 mil. Add Burke or Brown (or dare I say Josh Green) and that gets you right where you need to be.

I don't even know how many firsts we would have to add to that package for Atlanta to even consider it.

(01-25-2022, 12:19 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]And speaking of cap relief and asset management, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs flipped Maxi for an expiring and pick at the TDL.  That would give you more cap flexibility to retain DFS/Brunson.  Can't keep everyone, right?

That would be crazy.  He is our 5th most important player, wont garner a first as a rental, and you wouldn't save nearly enough to address the tax issues (meaning you would have to dump another rotational player).

(01-25-2022, 12:51 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]You'd probably need to trade Brunson to get your '23 back as I don't think the Mavs '27 pick is all that attractive to anyone at the moment.  I guess that's okay if you are getting Bogdan as the Brunson replacement, but that dude has missed a bunch of games (44/72 last year, 28/46 this year).  I also wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta would prefer to swap Gallo instead and they still might want multiple FRPs in the deal.

If Collins costs Brunson as well Im out. ATL is hurting and is sitting at 12th in the Eastern Conference. 

Adding Gallo makes things a little bit more complicated if its just the Mavs and Hawks since the Mavs would have to make up 5.5 mil and there isn't a contract on the team that works (*obviously not counting KP/Luka for obvious reasons and Powell due to lack of value). 

Maybe there's a 3 team trade here:

ATL: Horford, THJ, Kleber, 2027 FRP Mavs
BOS: Gallo, Bogdan, Huerter
DAL: Smart, Collins, Schroeder.

Now this is entirely Mavs biased. They're making out like thieves. But I tried to reason why it made sense for each team.

ATL gets back fan favorite Horford who has a partial guarantee next year. Horford ideally comes off the bench for Capela, BUT can also play next to him due to his shooting ability, and provides the vet presence needed for the Hawks. He's also defensive minded, something they've needed for a while. THJ replaces Bogdan. Maxi replaces Collins. 

BOS: Truly my only reasoning why BOS does this is 1) they save about 4.5 mil this year putting them under the tax. They get a prospect in Huerter who's already locked up. Bogdan has been an above average playmaker for a 2 guard that can come and get the ball moving. Gallo really is just an expiring next year, but should provide some bench shooting. They lose Smart but get off his money. And they find someone to take Schroder off their hands.

DAL: I mean they get Smart and Collins while keeping everyone but Maxi. Obviously this shouldn't work. Perhaps if they added Brunson to BOS then things start to make sense. But at that point do you feel comfortable losing Brunson and replacing him with Smart and his money? Even if it nets Collins? 

This is more of a fun thought experiment. If you got to this point I can't believe you read all of this.

(01-25-2022, 12:58 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]That would be crazy.  He is our 5th most important player, wont garner a first as a rental, and you wouldn't save nearly enough to address the tax issues (meaning you would have to dump another rotational player).

Saves you $9.2m next year and based on what players like RoCo went for, you could easily get a first for him since you are getting 1.5 years of a great defender, 3PT shooter on a very reasonable contract.

He'll be 31 when it's time for his next contract.  The luxury tax is progressive, so every dollar saved counts.

(01-25-2022, 01:05 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Adding Gallo...

Subbing, not adding.  So Collins/Gallo instead of Collins/Bogdan.  Either way You need a first round pick or two in a Collins trade.

JB could return one.  Maxi could return one (but he's at the core of your trade).  DFS, I don't think would.  KP might be able to, but that's a whole other can of worms.

(01-25-2022, 01:10 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Saves you $9.2m next year and based on what players like RoCo went for, you could easily get a first for him since you are getting 1.5 years of a great defender, 3PT shooter on a very reasonable contract.

He'll be 31 when it's time for his next contract.  The luxury tax is progressive, so every dollar saved counts.

Love Maxi, but don't think he is in the same class as RoCo when he got moved (elite defense and established starter).

I can see Maxi getting thrown into a trade for a better player (like Collins or Turner) but a move like this would be really disappointing.

(01-25-2022, 01:24 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Love Maxi, but don't think he is in the same class as RoCo when he got moved (elite defense and established starter).

I can see Maxi getting thrown into a trade for a better player (like Collins or Turner) but a move like this would be really disappointing.

RoCo got two firsts so I don't think one first is crazy.  It would most likely be from a contender and a pick in the 20s.  

It's all part of the questions the Mavs are asking themselves.  If they pay JB and DFS, can they afford to pay Maxi for his next contract?  And I freaking love Maxi but sometimes you need to move on and get creative for collecting assets.

If Mavs goes all-in with defensive identity, maybe they can swing a trade of Marcus Smart, Josh Richardson for THJ and Trey Burke.

Shaves some money for the Celtics gives them a better shooter at the wings and a combo point guard they can play off the bench.

Mavs get another playmaker and defender in Smart. Maybe Richardson will fit better with the Mavs system.

(01-25-2022, 01:13 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Subbing, not adding.  So Collins/Gallo instead of Collins/Bogdan.  Either way You need a first round pick or two in a Collins trade.

JB could return one.  Maxi could return one (but he's at the core of your trade).  DFS, I don't think would.  KP might be able to, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Sorry I misspoke here, but subbing* Gallo instead of Bogdan you get at that awkward 5.5mil number to make up. Which is hard for the Mavs to do. Thus I went into a wacky 3 team deal. 

(01-25-2022, 01:05 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Adding Gallo makes things a little bit more complicated if its just the Mavs and Hawks since the Mavs would have to make up 5.5 mil and there isn't a contract on the team that works (*obviously not counting KP/Luka for obvious reasons and Powell due to lack of value).

^

(01-25-2022, 01:27 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: [ -> ]If Mavs goes all-in with defensive identity, maybe they can swing a trade of Marcus Smart, Josh Richardson for THJ and Trey Burke.

Shaves some money for the Celtics gives them a better shooter at the wings and a combo point guard they can play off the bench.

Mavs get another playmaker and defender in Smart. Maybe Richardson will fit better with the Mavs system.

I think conceptually, a Smart for THJ trade might make sense.  In a vacuum, I think most teams would prefer Smart over THJ.  Both are overpaid about the same amount.  THJ's benefit is that half a year of his contract is already gone and the structure is declining making him much easier to move as the year pass.  Smart's extension doesn't kick in until next year and he'll get raises making his contract less desirable as the years go on.  Smart is two years younger than THJ.  I also think Smart might have worn out his welcome in Boston.  I wouldn't either a positive asset but based on contracts, Tim is the lesser of the two evils.  I'd want a tip of some sorts.

Boston and the Mavs have done a lot of business together.  The problem, as you pointed out is salary matching.  I don't want $12m of JRich next year.  Maybe that's a trade to consider once Smart's extension kicks in.

It really makes me wonder about Cuban's plans with the tax.  KP, Maxi, DFS, Bullock, Green, Bullock, Brown, Frank and Smart would give you a lot of defense.

(01-25-2022, 01:39 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry I misspoke here, but subbing* Gallo instead of Bogdan you get at that awkward 5.5mil number to make up. Which is hard for the Mavs to do. Thus I went into a wacky 3 team deal. 

^

Gotcha.  The Josh Green angle is interesting.  Has he shown enough to add value in a trade?

(01-25-2022, 01:27 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: [ -> ]If Mavs goes all-in with defensive identity, maybe they can swing a trade of Marcus Smart, Josh Richardson for THJ and Trey Burke.

In all seriousness I have wondered what Richardson would look like under Kidd vs. the neutered disinterested version we got with RC. The fact he's again underperforming (and signed a gross extension) with the Celtics, makes me quite happy he's off the team.

Smart is an intriguing player. He's a fantastic defender. I know people say he's declining, but after watching some recent Celtic games he's one of the only reasons their defense isn't last in the league. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWiADg7IiU

^ Great relatively recent video on Smart and his defensive prowess. 

I wouldn't mind him. His extension doesn't even take him near the 20mil mark till the last 2 years of the deal, which isn't that bad. Richardson is a deal breaker though.