MavsBoard

I love the Michael Scott meme. Hahaha

(01-25-2022, 01:43 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]In all seriousness I have wondered what Richardson would look like under Kidd vs. the neutered disinterested version we got with RC.

Moving off Josh Richardson was almost literally the first actual move Nico made as GM. Bringing him back *in the same year* we dumped seems like the least likely move of all possible moves the current MBT might make.

I never wanted Smart even when we were bad on D and good on O, now with better defense and Brunson's emergence there's no reason to go after him.

(01-24-2022, 11:50 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I think Roco is on the downhill side, more reputation with fans than stellar play. If up to me, I only consider him as an MLE signing in July, but not in trade giving up assets.

Re alternatives mentioned from time to time, I think Grant isn't as good as his stats (player on very bad team, getting stats because someone will), but he also wants to be The Guy getting all the shots, somewhere. No thank you.

The guy I like a lot is Collins, who I think would be great here if you can get him. The contract would be tough to add, forcing MC to make a major commitment, but he's the guy imo. I wouldn't offer JB (who wouldn't be a good fit there anyhow) but could THJ-DFS-pick and eating a bad salary with the TPE get you close?

While I agree that RoCo is on the downhill, I think he still plays elite defense.  But the fact that he is on the downhill, expiring, and probably not staying with his current team is what makes him gettable with our meager assets.

Collins would be a great get, but we don't have the assets to get him, and if we did it would require gutting the team.  I don't think it makes sense to make a move like that right now given how well the team is playing.  I would prefer small affordable upgrades like RoCo and Dragic.

(01-24-2022, 11:50 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Re alternatives mentioned from time to time, I think Grant isn't as good as his stats (player on very bad team, getting stats because someone will), but he also wants to be The Guy getting all the shots, somewhere. No thank you.

The guy I like a lot is Collins, who I think would be great here if you can get him. The contract would be tough to add, forcing MC to make a major commitment, but he's the guy imo. I wouldn't offer JB (who wouldn't be a good fit there anyhow) but could THJ-DFS-pick and eating a bad salary with the TPE get you close?

I tend to agree about Grant and Collins.  From an impact standpoint, Grant is not really much different than DFS.  He has a bit more creation ability, but isn't as good in other areas.  If you go that route, you are basically saying that the attack needs to be diversified some and you are willing to pay up for it and take a hit culturally.

I also agree Collins would be much better.  DFS would look good to Atlanta as he would fill the hole created by moving Hunter to PF.  I'm not sure what bad salary they have that fits the TPE.   To me, it is kind of difficult to make salary and value work on a simple deal for Collins.  DFS, Powell and S. Brown works, but Atlanta has no use for Powell.  Swapping out Maxi works, but now you are looking at really disruptive deal for Dallas.  Does Hardaway make sense on a team with B.Bog, Huerter and DFS already occupying wing spots?  Is he better than any of those guys.  I love the idea of Collins, but have a hard time getting there.

The Grant vs. Collins vs. Smart vs........ discussion got me to thinking.  What hole do we really have.  Here are the EPM and (O-EPM, D-EPM) percentiles for our current starters and select bench players:

KP      95 (94/83)
MK     69 (44/93)
DFS    78 (67/84)
JB      79 (89/36)
LD      94 (94/76)

Theoretically, we have enough O between KP, JB and Luka to carry Maxi's poor offensive contribution.  Similarly, we have enough D between KP, Maxi, DFS and even Luka to carry Brunson's poor defensive contribution.  The lineup makes sense except you don't get the full benefit of JB's offensive contribution when he plays alongside Luka.  Maxi's O could certainly be replaced, but anyone who replaces him will be competing with KP for touches.  Here is the bench:

DP     75 (74/68)
TH     61 (68/47)
RB     41 (29/71)
JG     55 (37/82)

Powell's O is better than Maxi's, but the fit with KP is better with Maxi.  Hardaway wouldn't be so bad if he was on a MLE contract or returned to some semblance of his former self (the last five seasons working backwards, his EPM's were 74, 87, 70, 81 and 84).  Green's D is the best on the bench and actually pretty similar to Finney-Smith's (sacrilege, I know).  Green is the long term solution at SF is you move DFS in a trade for someone like Collins.  Green is already better offensively than DFS was his first three seasons, so talk of cashing out DFS for a better Maxi makes sense at some level.  The question is can you improve on Maxi's offense without giving up much on D and without disrupting the rhythm KP is in right now.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/26...his-Summer

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/26...stian-Wood

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/26...g-Clippers

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/26...y-Deadline

I wouldn't mind a THJ + Burke + Moses for Smart + Nesmith + Langford.

(01-25-2022, 09:09 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]The Grant vs. Collins vs. Smart vs........ discussion got me to thinking.  What hole do we really have. 

That was my question from yesterday but I reached a different conclusion. 

The weak spots are Maxi's offense as a stationary shooter, especially in the playoffs; and Brunson's defense as a player who will be hunted, especially in the playoffs. 

Do you look to upgrade the offense by moving Kleber, who is under control on a good contract?

Or do you look to upgrade the defense by moving Brunson, who is at peak value and a flight risk in free agency?

Given the Mavs other weakness is the lack of an All Defense caliber on-ball disruptor, I'd probably look seriously at a potential win/win deal involving Smart for JB+Powell

JB      79 (89/36)
MS     88 (64/97)

I'm concerned about losing Powell's production. Can Chriss - 52 (58/49) - give you 15 playoff minutes?

With Orlando expecting to trade Gary Harris before the trade deadline, would Dallas be interested in trading for Harris?

THJ for Harris?

Jamahl Mosley, by all accounts, has a good relationship with THJ.  THJ's contract is cap friendly in the sense that it's a declining contract.  Orlando will have another top 5 pick in this year's draft.  They have plenty of salary cap space.  I doubt any premier free agents will go to Orlando in the offseason.  I would think THJ could have a positive effect in the locker room.

From Dallas' perspective, we get a guy in Harris who is 2 years younger than THJ and is in the last year of his deal.  It allows us to free up space to resign Brunson and DFS.  Harris is putting up decent numbers on albeit a pretty bad basketball team.

Hopefully, Goran Dragic gets bought out and we can add him to our bench as well.

(01-25-2022, 09:56 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]That was my question from yesterday but I reached a different conclusion. 

The weak spots are Maxi's offense as a stationary shooter, especially in the playoffs; and Brunson's defense as a player who will be hunted, especially in the playoffs. 

Do you look to upgrade the offense by moving Kleber, who is under control on a good contract?

Or do you look to upgrade the defense by moving Brunson, who is at peak value and a flight risk in free agency?

I'd probably look seriously at a potential win/win deal involving Smart for JB+Powell

JB      79 (89/36)
MS     88 (64/97)

I'm concerned about losing Powell's production. Can Chriss - 52 (58/49) - give you 15 playoff minutes?

I'm guessing folks will not be excited by this, but it does make some sense.  Given that we have traded offense for defense, you could take the next step to improve Maxi by sending THJ + salary for Tobias Harris.  You would not need 15 minutes of Chriss in this scenario as Maxi would take on most of the big second unit minutes.  Does a KP/Harris/DFS/Luka/Smart starting lineup have contender potential?  It would definitely be an upgrade on what we have now.  No way to avoid tax with that team.

(01-25-2022, 10:07 AM)Mavs03 Wrote: [ -> ]With Orlando expecting to trade Gary Harris before the trade deadline, would Dallas be interested in trading for Harris?

THJ for Harris?

Jamahl Mosley, by all accounts, has a good relationship with THJ.  THJ's contract is cap friendly in the sense that it's a declining contract.  Orlando will have another top 5 pick in this year's draft.  They have plenty of salary cap space.  I doubt any premier free agents will go to Orlando in the offseason.  I would think THJ could have a positive effect in the locker room.

From Dallas' perspective, we get a guy in Harris who is 2 years younger than THJ and is in the last year of his deal.  It allows us to free up space to resign Brunson and DFS.  Harris is putting up decent numbers on albeit a pretty bad basketball team.

Hopefully, Goran Dragic gets bought out and we can add him to our bench as well.

I'm very much with you on the first part, I don't think Harris would get much burn here but for the expiring it's a no brainer to me.

I don't know who we would cut at this point if we were going to add Dragic down the road though.

If the Mavs already know JB wants to be the lead guard (for another team) and wants a salary more than they are willing to give, Boston actually has pieces for the Mavs.

JB + THJ can net you Smart + Langford + Grant Williams.

This is basically just JB for Smart + a young wing (Langford) + solid help for Maxi (Grant Williams) + THJ salary dump (without looking like one and THJ actually lands on a team which can make the playoffs)

I'm still with F Gump on this one.

Trading JB now for anything less than a perennial all-star would be shooting ourselves in the foot. The amount of money this free agency is almost non-existent. Mavs can offer the most AND already give him a clearly defined role where he starts and excells in. 

The angst in trading away JB is one I just don't get.

I like Smart. I don't mind Gary Harris. Collins would be a fantastic get. None of these guys are worth shaking up the entire franchise in the midst of their best stretch the last 3 years.

Smart+Horford+Nesmith for THJ+Powell+Burke  is something I can get behind. Saves the Celtics nearly 10M and the Mavs get their guy.

Gary Harris+minor stuff for THJ is something I can get behind

Collins for 1 of DFS/Maxi+ non core players is something+picks is something I can get behind.

All of these deals don't rock the boat yet still raise the talent levels for the Mavs.

(01-25-2022, 11:21 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm still with F Gump on this one.

Trading JB now for anything less than a perennial all-star would be shooting ourselves in the foot. The amount of money this free agency is almost non-existent. Mavs can offer the most AND already give him a clearly defined role where he starts and excells in. 

The angst in trading away JB is one I just don't get.

I like Smart. I don't mind Gary Harris. Collins would be a fantastic get. None of these guys are worth shaking up the entire franchise in the midst of their best stretch the last 3 years.

Smart+Horford+Nesmith for THJ+Powell+Burke  is something I can get behind. Saves the Celtics nearly 10M and the Mavs get their guy.

Gary Harris+minor stuff for THJ is something I can get behind

Collins for 1 of DFS/Maxi+ non core players is something+picks is something I can get behind.

All of these deals don't rock the boat yet still raise the talent levels for the Mavs.

JB alone isn't going to get you an all-star, not even close.  He is your best asset to package, no doubt, but we need to be realistic.  Creating cap space isn't impossible either.

I also don't see a lot of angst for trading JB either but it is important to remember that JB controls his destiny, not the Mavs.  He could want more than the Mavs are willing to pay.  He could take less to go somewhere else.  If he wants to go to another team that has cap issues, he could request both the Mavs and said team work out a trade with the threat to the Mavs of walking for nothing.  JB's attitude towards the Mavs is the big unknown.  We know he wants an expanded role and we have a good idea of the money he wants.  

For your Celtics idea, I haven't really kept up on Nesmith but I kind of doubt they'd want that deal.

I doubt that Mavs would want the Harris deal.

I think you are underestimating what Collins could return in a trade.

(01-25-2022, 11:48 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]JB alone isn't going to get you an all-star, not even close.  He is your best asset to package, no doubt, but we need to be realistic.  Creating cap space isn't impossible either.

I'm not expecting the Mavs to trade JB for an all-star, but rather that's the approach they should have. Creating cap space is always possible, but what teams are going to sign JB to a 4/80 deal and then also add whatever assets needed to move off the salary to create the cap space required to sign him to such a deal. Especially when the Mavs could just match that money out right?


Obviously that confidence is moot if JB really wants out of here, but I don't think he does. He's given nothing but love for Dallas and the team.

(01-25-2022, 11:48 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I also don't see a lot of angst for trading JB either but it is important to remember that JB controls his destiny, not the Mavs.  He could want more than the Mavs are willing to pay.  He could take less to go somewhere else.  If he wants to go to another team that has cap issues, he could request both the Mavs and said team work out a trade with the threat to the Mavs of walking for nothing.  JB's attitude towards the Mavs is the big unknown.  We know he wants an expanded role and we have a good idea of the money he wants.  

For your Celtics idea, I haven't really kept up on Nesmith but I kind of doubt they'd want that deal.

We know he wanted an expanded role coming into the season and a rumor of 4/80. Well JB is now the starter and 2nd ball handler. Role has been expanded. The money largely depends on how he plays in the playoffs. If he proves he can handle that pressure and the Mavs make it out of the first round he's more than worth 4/80. The other teams that can sign him to 4/80 right now are none. The Knicks would have to find a way ton of money (Either Randle gone. Fournier+Burks, Nerlens+Burks+Walker).

It's not that easy. And thats a lot for Jalen Brunson who while good, isn't an all-star player.

THJ/Brunson to BOSTON

Horford/DFS/Boston22/Mavs26 to RAPTORS

Siakam/Schroeder to MAVS..

(01-25-2022, 12:03 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not expecting the Mavs to trade JB for an all-star, but rather that's the approach they should have. Creating cap space is always possible, but what teams are going to sign JB to a 4/80 deal and then also add whatever assets needed to move off the salary to create the cap space required to sign him to such a deal. Especially when the Mavs could just match that money out right?


Obviously that confidence is moot if JB really wants out of here, but I don't think he does. He's given nothing but love for Dallas and the team.




We know he wanted an expanded role coming into the season and a rumor of 4/80. Well JB is now the starter and 2nd ball handler. Role has been expanded. The money largely depends on how he plays in the playoffs. If he proves he can handle that pressure and the Mavs make it out of the first round he's more than worth 4/80. The other teams that can sign him to 4/80 right now are none. The Knicks would have to find a way ton of money (Either Randle gone. Fournier+Burks, Nerlens+Burks+Walker).

It's not that easy. And thats a lot for Jalen Brunson who while good, isn't an all-star player.

Being able to match doesn't matter much if he wants out.  He controls his destiny.  He also might be thinking about his next and what gives him the best opportunity to maximize his generational wealth.  JB is a good teammate, so of course he shows love for his teammates.  I don't think that gives us any clue as to his desire to want to be a Maverick long term or not.  And to put the shoe on the other foot, we don't really know if JB wants to be a Knick (family ties) or if the Knicks are willing to give JB all he wants.

Knicks have $119m committed for 2022 (5 to Taj who is non-guaranteed).  I don't think JB's getting $20m per, probably much closer to $15m.  Clearing an additional $10m wouldn't be difficult when you can work with Presti who only as around $40m committed.  There are many different ways to peel this potato.  

And all I'm saying is to take your final thought and apply that to potential JB trades.  He has value in a trade but that value is diminished by the nature of his contract.  

I'm also not trying to trade JB.  I'd be fine building around him and Luka.  I think that tandem's upside is pretty limited, but it might be the best you can do at the moment.  I'd much rather work on trading our own Knicks players.

(01-25-2022, 10:33 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm guessing folks will not be excited by this, but it does make some sense.  Given that we have traded offense for defense, you could take the next step to improve Maxi by sending THJ + salary for Tobias Harris.  You would not need 15 minutes of Chriss in this scenario as Maxi would take on most of the big second unit minutes.  Does a KP/Harris/DFS/Luka/Smart starting lineup have contender potential?  It would definitely be an upgrade on what we have now.  No way to avoid tax with that team.

How about THJ & Powell for Tobias Harris & Philly's 2023 FRP (lotto-protected) straight up?  I know Tobias Harris' money gets crazy soon, but its a talent upgrade + an asset we could use for a future move.  Plus its Cuban's $, not mine 

(01-25-2022, 12:05 PM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]THJ/Brunson to BOSTON

Horford/DFS/Boston22/Mavs26 to RAPTORS

Siakam/Schroeder to MAVS..

We can't trade the '26 pick yet.