If we assume Ian Begley is the Knicks unofficial mouthpiece it would seem they want some sort of Brunson for Randle deal. First they leak the willingness to go to +$20M/per year for Brunson, then a few days later they drop the Randle availability.
I would probably do Randle for JB and THJ. I imagine they want more than that.
(01-29-2022, 11:24 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I would probably do Randle for JB and THJ. I imagine they want more than that.
That's as far as I would consider, but I doubt either team does that. I would much rather have Smart than Randle, especially when extensions are considered.
I think Mavs have already way too much work with trying to make Luka-KP work and they don't need another questionable fit. 3-D guys is what they need on all spots, with as much ability to put the ball on the floor as possible. I don't think Randle fits the description
(01-29-2022, 12:07 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think Mavs have already way too much work with trying to make Luka-KP work and they don't need another questionable fit. 3-D guys is what they need on all spots, with as much ability to put the ball on the floor as possible. I don't think Randle fits the description
I agree with you 100% here. Plus Randle's contract is too much in my opinion for him to ever be a valuable asset.
But lets play devil's advocate. Randle's role here would be reduced to a staunch 3rd option. He got exposed in the playoffs last year because he wasn't good enough to carry an offense, and the Knicks relied on Rose to get anything consistent. That wouldn't be a problem here. Randle would be waiting in the wings to catch the ball. Unfortunately he can't shoot, or else he'd be a perfect fit. His lack of shooting would kill the spacing.
We also know Randle can defend, or at least be apart of an elite team defense. He's taken a step back this year in that area too, but how much of it is due to exhaustion/frustration?
But at the end of the day I come back to our original conclusion. As I check the boxes and look at the negatives, I don't see how Randle takes this team from good to great.
I think of Randle as mostly a stop-gap, unless we get a well fitting piece for KP (also allowing for him to actually work well here). Yes, a stop-gap for JB doesn’t sound like a good thing. What would be worse is JB leaving in the offseason for nothing in return
(01-29-2022, 12:23 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/1487120303885066243
Pacers not looking to move anyone. They could get two 1sts for Sabonis and that is it!
(01-29-2022, 12:23 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/1487120303885066243
It feels like Indiana and Philly are shopping players the same way that some spoiled kids look for jobs after college. They keep turning down offers for increasingly dumb reasons while explaining that the employers aren't meeting their ridiculously high personal expectations. Eventually people figure out that they have no real interest in working but have to make a show of trying in order to maintain the parental support that pays the bills.
Here are some options of deals JB to NY (Barrett, Randle and Toppin are unrealistic in my eyes, Grimes and Reddish to a degree as well):
Option 1:
JB/THJ for '23 DAL 1st/Kemba/Burks - This version is if we still want to compete this year while saving future money.
Option 2:
JB/Brown for '23 DAL1st/Quickley/McBride - This one in more long term, as IQ is a pretty decent prospect, but his ceiling is more of a 6th man and we take a chance on McBride.
Option 3:
JB/Powell for '23 DAL 1st/Robinson/Burks - Kind of a middle ground as Robinson and Burks are positive on court and could help boost our chances, all while still maintaining flexibility.
(01-29-2022, 12:45 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]It feels like Indiana and Philly are shopping players the same way that some spoiled kids look for jobs after college. They keep turning down offers for increasingly dumb reasons while explaining that the employers aren't meeting their ridiculously high personal expectations. Eventually people figure out that they have no real interest in working but have to make a show of trying in order to maintain the parental support that pays the bills.
I don't think IND is actually committed to blowing it up. I mean heck, I'm sure they got LOADS of packages for Sabonis, and even Turner. If they were committed to losing, they'd probably have taken one of them by now.
I think IND would only blow it up if they got a godfather offer. Other than that they'll continue the status quo into the offseason where they can get a relatively high pick, retool, and maybe trade 1 of Turner or Lavert. Thats how I see it playing it out.
(01-29-2022, 12:54 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Here are some options of deals JB to NY (Barrett, Randle and Toppin are unrealistic in my eyes, Grimes and Reddish to a degree as well):
Option 1:
JB/THJ for '23 DAL 1st/Kemba/Burks - This version is if we still want to compete this year while saving future money.
Option 2:
JB/Brown for '23 DAL1st/Quickley/McBride - This one in more long term, as IQ is a pretty decent prospect, but his ceiling is more of a 6th man and we take a chance on McBride.
Option 3:
JB/Powell for '23 DAL 1st/Robinson/Burks - Kind of a middle ground as Robinson and Burks are positive on court and could help boost our chances, all while still maintaining flexibility.
I might be unrealistic in my valuation of Brunson, but I think he's worth at least 1-2 FRP. His contract status makes him a bit less desirable, so lets just say 1 FRP.
Option 1: Isn't ideal from a player return standpoint. Very much ideal in a cap management standpoint. Kemba is on his last legs and I really question if he has anything left in the tank. Burks is ok, nothing great, just a good use of the TPE. The first is the real prize.
Option 2: I think this is a much better package. Quickly has shown flashes of excellence. I think he'd excel in a 6th man role. Mcbride is a throw in to be honest in my mind.
Option 3: Now this is the one I really like. Robinson is the exact type of center that could blossom next to Luka. The biggest downside is that we're just pushing Brunson's contract situation further down the line as Robinson is in a similar boat.
The chance is really low getting a player with two first-round picks on the level of what Brunson is playing. He is playing near all-star level. The most significant is that his level is increasing for every season he has been in the NBA from rookie year until now. Better each year. No reason not think that will keep improving and he will reach all-star level. No to any first round picks, unless it's top 3 pick where chances are better to get at least the equal player in return. I'm all for trading Brunson for another equal player, young and with all-star level or potential for that in coming season, if the fit is better for the team. Given how great Brunson and Luka have produced offensively and defensively, I think that would be hard to find that player. All-in for keeping Brunson.
(01-29-2022, 01:40 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]I'm all for trading Brunson for another equal player, young and with all-star level or potential for that in coming season, if the fit is better for the team. Given how great Brunson and Luka have produced offensively and defensively, I think that would be hard to find that player. All-in for keeping Brunson.
Right in theory I agree with you, but are you 100% committed to paying Brunson a contract (if the Knick rumor is believed to be true) of north of 20 mil a year?
That's what this contract looks like:
$21,122,500
$22,812,300
$24,502,100
$26,191,900
Total: $94,628,800
And that's the minimum "north" of 20 mil the rumor was for. Brunson's good. He's crafty. But he has obvious deficiencies. He's gotten destroyed the last 2 years in the playoffs (and that trend didn't go away when he's played good playoff teams this year). It's also concerning that lineups with Luka+Brunson aren't particularly special. In fact Luka led lineups are much better sans Brunson, and the same holds true for Brunson led lineups,
I think Brunson at 20+mil isn't an asset anymore, and we'd be locking ourselves into playoff mediocrity.
(01-29-2022, 02:03 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Right in theory I agree with you, but are you 100% committed to paying Brunson a contract (if the Knick rumor is believed to be true) of north of 20 mil a year?
That's what this contract looks like:
$21,122,500
$22,812,300
$24,502,100
$26,191,900
Total: $94,628,800
And that's the minimum "north" of 20 mil the rumor was for. Brunson's good. He's crafty. But he has obvious deficiencies. He's gotten destroyed the last 2 years in the playoffs (and that trend didn't go away when he's played good playoff teams this year). It's also concerning that lineups with Luka+Brunson aren't particularly special. In fact Luka led lineups are much better sans Brunson, and the same holds true for Brunson led lineups,
I think Brunson at 20+mil isn't an asset anymore, and we'd be locking ourselves into playoff mediocrity.
Luka-Brunson sans THJ lineups have been amazing. THJ has been decreasing the fit. But most others fit really well with the two. Once the two started, we have been winning really many games. If we look into the other three players to match Luka and Brunson, we have something special in my view.
I am not much into understanding NBA salaries and how much 20 mill is. But I consider Brunson near all-star level and I believe he will be that next season. He has improved a lot compared to last seasons, and it's a very valid point that he had trouble in playoff last season, but same time we should also hesitate using that information too much given how much he has improved and is still improving. Brunsons curve is pointing up, and I dont know when or where that will stop. That makes me the most afraid of trading him. For other players that have reached the ceiling etc., it's much easier to make the trade and feel comfortable.
Regarding Robinson, he'll need to be paid this offseason so what does everyone imagine his contract will look like. I'm assuming he'll be in the range of DFS. Are the Mavs willing to sign both of them a starting salaries of ~$12m?
(01-29-2022, 02:03 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Right in theory I agree with you, but are you 100% committed to paying Brunson a contract (if the Knick rumor is believed to be true) of north of 20 mil a year?
That's what this contract looks like:
$21,122,500
$22,812,300
$24,502,100
$26,191,900
Total: $94,628,800
And that's the minimum "north" of 20 mil the rumor was for. Brunson's good. He's crafty. But he has obvious deficiencies. He's gotten destroyed the last 2 years in the playoffs (and that trend didn't go away when he's played good playoff teams this year). It's also concerning that lineups with Luka+Brunson aren't particularly special. In fact Luka led lineups are much better sans Brunson, and the same holds true for Brunson led lineups,
I think Brunson at 20+mil isn't an asset anymore, and we'd be locking ourselves into playoff mediocrity.
Not only that, but he may not want to be here. We might not be able to retain him regardless. It would be an epic fail if we value him too much to trade him, and then watch him walk away in the offseason.
I watched almost all of NY/MIL last night to get a better feel for the various players we are talking about in NY. Small sample size, yet a good flavor of the roster, and it offered a lot of insight to understand the player stats and where they come from. Why isn't this guy playing more, who shows potential, etc
But was easy to see why the talent that it looks like they have, on paper, isn't nearly as impressive when they play. It was a game of opportunity, for so many of them, and the play was really ragged. Lots of try hard, but wow some that are highly touted have such big holes in their game.
Some observations ...
Brunson (or any decent PG) would help them a lot.
Robinson - for all the acclaim over him being the next great thing, he's been in the league 4 years, and you would want him benched him if he was a Mav. Didn't appear to be anything special on either end, although he can jump well so tries to block everything.
Barrett - frustrating to see him play, he's supposed to be the next big thing for NY, but his play is so very ordinary
Tobbin - uber-athletic (can jump out of the gym) but VERY unpolished. The "what-if" reaction to him is understandable, but I'm not sold that he should be enough to get you JB. Watching him play and what he doesn't do, it's easy to understand why he is played so little. (If you've followed the NBA for awhile, he reminds me a lot of a guy named Kenny (Sky) Walker, who had the athleticism that made you ooh and ahh and think he would one day be a star, but it usually didn't translate into anything very valuable on the court.)
Randle - disappointing to see what he's become this year. Huge regression in his game. No thanks.
Kemba - he is so washed. Hard pass.
Quickley - meh. Hard to tell if he has anything, in that setting, but have to think if he did he'd be in a central role, because they need a PG badly.
Fournier - he's the same guy as in ORL, whose numbers look good, but he can be very invisible. I wouldn't want that contract.
Burks is the one guy you might want imo. If healthy (he's out right now, and not sure what that means for his future), Rose too.
(01-29-2022, 02:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson - for all the acclaim over him being the next great thing, he's been in the league 4 years, and you would want him benched him if he was a Mav. Didn't appear to be anything special on either end, although he can jump well so tries to block everything.
It's why he finds himself in foul trouble. He has the athletic tools to be a Tyson starter kit. So could Tyson/Kidd unlock his potential and are you ready to handy out a hefty pay day for that potential?
(01-29-2022, 02:20 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding Robinson, he'll need to be paid this offseason so what does everyone imagine his contract will look like. I'm assuming he'll be in the range of DFS. Are the Mavs willing to sign both of them a starting salaries of ~$12m?
I'm hoping we can extend DFS so we don't have to worry about it in the offseason. I think Gump mentioned that starts at roughly 11.5? I'm guessing Robinson market is MLE. Don't know if you give him similar extension? I'm a little skeptical NY is going to give up him and a first for Brunson, or that they have any interest in Powell.
Also, does Robinson make sense next to KP? If we traded KP in another deal, then I way more interested in Mitchell.
