(01-20-2022, 08:11 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Responding to the talk of a "second Maxi", I think PJ Washington would fit the bill. I saw an idea on a site I've never heard of that had PJ moving in a 3 way with Orlando. It was Powell/PJ and JT Thor to Orlando, Ross and MCW to Dallas, and Bamba, Frank to Charlotte.
With apologies to 2021, I like Bamba to Charlotte, but I'd rather send PJ to Dallas. Orlando doesn't need three more bigs. The question is what would Orlando want that we could provide. Doesn't THJ have a house in Orlando and don't the Magic have a coach that knows him and some need for vet leadership and some O (currently ranked 28th)?
Seems like there might be something that gets Bamba to Charlotte, Ross and Washington to Dallas and THJ and minor stuff to Orlando.
How about offering both THJ, Powell to ORL, with the Mavs willing to take on Ross ...
Would it be enough to get the Mavs both Bamba (who then gets flipped to Charlotte for PJ Washington) plus a still-very-injured Isaac? I suspect it wouldn't be enough, but I'd be very tempted to roll the dice if it was.
(01-20-2022, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]plus a still-very-injured Isaac?
The injuries are concerning, but oh my what a perfect fit with KP if he's ever right again, imo.
(01-20-2022, 06:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The injuries are concerning, but oh my what a perfect fit with KP if he's ever right again, imo.
Perfect fit as in they might play 82 games combined in any given season?
Coming back to the big wing topic. If the Mavs want to go into a win-now direction. Clippers trade rumors are all over NBA media. Most of them mention Batum and Ibaka. Without PG and Kawhi the Clippers aren´t contending and a salary reduction might be in their best interest.
As a result most rumors feature Batum as an incentive for teams that are willing to eat Ibaka´s salary. Is that an option for the Mavs? Something like...
Burke and Brown for Ibaka (into TPE) and Batum
(01-20-2022, 07:50 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Coming back to the big wing topic. If the Mavs want to go into a win-now direction. Clippers trade rumors are all over NBA media. Most of them mention Batum and Ibaka. Without PG and Kawhi the Clippers aren´t contending and a salary reduction might be in their best interest.
As a result most rumors feature Batum as an incentive for teams that are willing to eat Ibaka´s salary. Is that an option for the Mavs? Something like...
Burke and Brown for Ibaka (into TPE) and Batum
That Batum contract is really good. Seems like they could get something better than that. I would think we would at least have to throw in a pick.
(01-20-2022, 10:01 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Stick him in the Dwight Powell role to improve spacing since he can and will shoot the three?
He would need to move as well as Powell on defense and I just don´t see it.
(01-20-2022, 10:03 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]He would need to move as well as Powell on defense and I just don´t see it.
Not as agile but less likely to get bullied. You could swap him for Moses or maybe use the TPE if better options don't present themselves. Could be an interesting backup plan.
I think Christian Wood would be great addition, if ever.
I wonder what package would it take to get him?
(01-20-2022, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]How about offering both THJ, Powell to ORL, with the Mavs willing to take on Ross ...
Would it be enough to get the Mavs both Bamba (who then gets flipped to Charlotte for PJ Washington) plus a still-very-injured Isaac? I suspect it wouldn't be enough, but I'd be very tempted to roll the dice if it was.
That feels like a Cuban-Classic move, not the kind of thing we've seen in quite a while. I'd love it, but it would be a tough sell in Orlando. They are sending out two of their recent top 10 draft picks. The payoff for those seasons of being bad are Powell and THJ? that doesn't feel like nearly enough. It doesn't really save them any money (unless you count the money you don't sign Bamba to a year from now). And, its not like Issac is keeping them from making the playoffs (or Powell/Hardaway would get them there).
On the plus side, it would give them a Harris replacement and a Lopez replacement and gets them out from under Ross. That's not nothing. Powell expires before they have to pay Anthony and Hampton (assuming he grows into something). The bigger issue is 25/26 when they have to pay Suggs and Wagner and make a call on UFA Isaac if they still have him. By that time Hardaway's contract is done. There is logic to all of that, but I think Dallas would need to do more. Maybe hometown boy Finney-Smith. Maybe Maxi instead of Powell. Maybe a pick. I don't know. If I were Orlando and I'm not trying to be good yet, I'd probably try to rehab his value a bit more before doing anything.
(01-21-2022, 07:44 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]That feels like a Cuban-Classic move, not the kind of thing we've seen in quite a while. I'd love it, but it would be a tough sell in Orlando. They are sending out two of their recent top 10 draft picks. The payoff for those seasons of being bad are Powell and THJ? that doesn't feel like nearly enough. It doesn't really save them any money (unless you count the money you don't sign Bamba to a year from now). And, its not like Issac is keeping them from making the playoffs (or Powell/Hardaway would get them there).
On the plus side, it would give them a Harris replacement and a Lopez replacement and gets them out from under Ross. That's not nothing. Powell expires before they have to pay Anthony and Hampton (assuming he grows into something). The bigger issue is 25/26 when they have to pay Suggs and Wagner and make a call on UFA Isaac if they still have him. By that time Hardaway's contract is done. There is logic to all of that, but I think Dallas would need to do more. Maybe hometown boy Finney-Smith. Maybe Maxi instead of Powell. Maybe a pick. I don't know. If I were Orlando and I'm not trying to be good yet, I'd probably try to rehab his value a bit more before doing anything.
Yeah they are not sending out Isaac and Bamba, especially not for that package. One is a dead certainty, especially given there is a 80% chance, they´ll draft another PF/C in the upcoming draft. We all assume that Bamba is the odd man out, but he´s stil a RFA, so he´s basically under contract. Maybe they prefer to re-sign him and ship the even more injury-prone Isaac out. For rest of argument go with Bamba
Personally with the recent performances by the team, I think the main question should be cap management and Porzingis health projections. They are showing real progress. so I think the strategy going forward should be
1) THJ + Burke our 2022 1st round pick (top 16 protected) for Gary Harris and their 2022 2nd round pick (optional Bamba for TPE).
That means we swap a pick between 17-25ish for the 31st pick, plus we gain some flexibility going forward.
Re-sign Brunson 72/4
Re-sign Dorian 56/4
Re-sign Harris 15/3
Re-sign Bamba 30/3 (optional)
Doncic/Ntilikina/Moses
Brunson/Harris/Brown
DFS/Bullock/Green
Kleber/Powell/Chriss
Porzingis/Bamba/Boban
Now I´m preparing my ALL-IN move, cause this roster imho is one clutch 4th quarter iso superstar away from SERIOUS championship material. So let´s find out how tight Nico and Lillard truly are. Cause you put him on that team...
(01-21-2022, 08:18 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]1) THJ + Burke our 2022 1st round pick (top 16 protected) for Gary Harris and their 2022 2nd round pick (optional Bamba for TPE).
That means we swap a pick between 17-25ish for the 31st pick, plus we gain some flexibility going forward.
Doncic/Ntilikina/Moses
Brunson/Harris/Brown
DFS/Bullock/Green
Kleber/Powell/Chriss
Porzingis/Bamba/Boban
First, you can't trade the 2022 first until the pick is made, which means this can't be done until June and at that point Orlando can't send Harris at his current expiring deal to trade match Hardaway.
But even if you could, if you leave Bamba out of this (optional), you are paying to give Hardaway away. If he's so bad you have to drop down in the draft several spots to move him, then the TDL is hopeless. Green would take that spot in the rotation, so there is no point in signing Harris to a contract that is worth less than the TP MLE. Plus you already have Brown and Frank who do similar things for much less.
You've posted this several times and until you made the Bamba part optional, I assumed you had a higher opinion of Bamba than I do. If you watch how we are defending right now, we need bigs who are more mobile than Bamba (if healthy Turner wasn't going to work, Bamba certainly won't). I think PJ Washington or Batum or Thaddeus Young or Toppin would be much better fits for this scheme. I'd like to get a guy like that and move Maxi to the bench with Powell. I'd also like an upgrade over Burke as our third PG. The question is how can you deal for any of that without giving up DFS, JB or Green when we can't deal a pick until 2026?
(01-21-2022, 09:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]First, you can't trade the 2022 first until the pick is made, which means this can't be done until June and at that point Orlando can't send Harris at his current expiring deal to trade match Hardaway.
But even if you could, if you leave Bamba out of this (optional), you are paying to give Hardaway away. If he's so bad you have to drop down in the draft several spots to move him, then the TDL is hopeless. Green would take that spot in the rotation, so there is no point in signing Harris to a contract that is worth less than the TP MLE. Plus you already have Brown and Frank who do similar things for much less.
You've posted this several times and until you made the Bamba part optional, I assumed you had a higher opinion of Bamba than I do. If you watch how we are defending right now, we need bigs who are more mobile than Bamba (if healthy Turner wasn't going to work, Bamba certainly won't). I think PJ Washington or Batum or Thaddeus Young or Toppin would be much better fits for this scheme. I'd like to get a guy like that and move Maxi to the bench with Powell. I'd also like an upgrade over Burke as our third PG. The question is how can you deal for any of that without giving up DFS, JB or Green when we can't deal a pick until 2026?
Question...if no trade is made and Dragic does get bought out, are there "real" minutes for him here with the roster as is? It is a tight fit. You can say he would be valuable with Luka and Jalen starting. But who would lose minutes....Hardaway, Bullock, other? There would be a crunch there.
The Mavs team is playing well, but we still are not quite up to the level of the top teams. I am not sure a move is out there to get us to that level at this time. I like the PJ Washington and Batum suggestions...both would fit in nice. If neither are available, it may be best to keep our resources and wait for when that last piece trade is available.
I like the rotations for the most part and going smaller. In time, I think I would like to see Chriss get some minutes with either KP or Maxi. Not in place of Powell, but just a lineup with two athletic big. A lot of people deserve minutes though and he is on the outside looking in. He may get a shot though as he gets up to speed on what Kidd wants.
(01-21-2022, 09:30 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Question...if no trade is made and Dragic does get bought out, are there "real" minutes for him here with the roster as is? It is a tight fit. You can say he would be valuable with Luka and Jalen starting. But who would lose minutes....Hardaway, Bullock, other? There would be a crunch there.
The Mavs team is playing well, but we still are not quite up to the level of the top teams. I am not sure a move is out there to get us to that level at this time. I like the PJ Washington and Batum suggestions...both would fit in nice. If neither are available, it may be best to keep our resources and wait for when that last piece trade is available.
I like the rotations for the most part and going smaller. In time, I think I would like to see Chriss get some minutes with either KP or Maxi. Not in place of Powell, but just a lineup with two athletic big. A lot of people deserve minutes though and he is on the outside looking in. He may get a shot though as he gets up to speed on what Kidd wants.
I kind of like the idea of working some kind of THJ for Dragic trade. It would probably need to involve a third team, but that would open up plenty of minutes for Dragic (and some of the other small wings) and greatly alleviate tax concerns while signing DFS and Brunson.
(01-21-2022, 09:44 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I kind of like the idea of working some kind of THJ for Dragic trade. It would probably need to involve a third team, but that would open up plenty of minutes for Dragic (and some of the other small wings) and greatly alleviate tax concerns while signing DFS and Brunson.
Am I right, if we traded for Dragic we could re-sign him and not use the MLE? But if he is bought out, then the only way to resign him is via the MLE?
I would imagine if he did wind up here, it would not just be for the remaining part of the year. He is probably looking for something longer. So if you could trade for him, couldn't you use the MLE for a guy like Batum or someone else in that price range? You could probably get both for close to the Hardaway salary next year.
For all those wishing for Batum, he may be the wrong guy to wish for.
The reason he has such a great contract is that he decided he would ONLY sign with the Clipps, and that's all they could (or would) offer. The Mavs (and others) tried to sign him, presumably for much more (he was easily worth MLE money) and he had no interest.
If the Clipps would move him (and in the context, that seems like a big "if") and you trade for him, you get him for 2-3 months, then he's a free agent. Probably heads back to the Clipps, for whatever they will pay. He can pick whoever he wants.
I really wanted the Mavs to sign Batum in the summer, and felt he was just what they need. Still would be a great get, imo. But that is a dead end wish unless he wants to be here.
(01-21-2022, 11:09 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]For all those wishing for Batum, he may be the wrong guy to wish for.
The reason he has such a great contract is that he decided he would ONLY sign with the Clipps, and that's all they could (or would) offer. The Mavs (and others) tried to sign him, presumably for much more (he was easily worth MLE money) and he had no interest.
If the Clipps would move him (and in the context, that seems like a big "if") and you trade for him, you get him for 2-3 months, then he's a free agent. Probably heads back to the Clipps, for whatever they will pay. He can pick whoever he wants.
I really wanted the Mavs to sign Batum in the summer, and felt he was just what they need. Still would be a great get, imo. But that is a dead end wish unless he wants to be here.
I don't think Batum is as diehard for the Clips as you're making it seem. Yes he took a slight discount to stay with them. I'm sure he also wanted to stay because 1) he wants to win a ring and a team with George and Kawhi is a pretty good place to do so. 2) They took a chance on him and helped revitalize his career.
Like you say
if the Clips were to trade him, I think that would sour him a bit on returning. At least in my mind it would. Here he takes a discount and 6 months later they trade him to avoid tax penalties.
In any case, Batum would help the Mavs so much. Same with Ibaka. 2 long defenders that are a vet presence and know how to win. Both of them and Dragic would take the Mavs to the 2nd round easily.
I think the weakest position in the current lineup is the PF. Maxi is ok, but he is asked to do too much when starting, which is particularly seen against good teams. Game becomes just too fast for him. Luka can create 4 vs 3 all the time, but when Maxi (and DFS to extent) receives the ball it takes too much time for him to decide best move (shoot, pass or drive). So I would look to improve this position as number one priority.
I think THJ is most expandable and I think Dragic would easily take his role in a little lighter version with a bit more minutes for other guards. Getting rid of THJ contract also opens space to resign DFS and Brunson without terrible tax burden, which can be easily managable a year later.
I will not go into Grant this time, although I think he would fit great with what Mavs want to do. I think the poor man version would be Young. He is excellent in 4 on 3 situations, excellent passer and decision maker. Big question is if there is a team that would take THJ contract and see it as a neutral asset. I doubt SA would be interested at all with all their guards. Enter New Orleans, who was reportedly interested in THJ in the summer.
NO: THJ
SA: Satoransky and 2 second rounders from NO
Dal: Young, Temple (send a minor player like Brown to one of those)
It still seems very shortsighted for Mavs, but really solves tax issues and we get two useful vets. SA gets a little compensation, I doubt Young is worth more. NO gets the player they wanted.