MavsBoard

(02-10-2022, 07:16 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I have mellowed down on Holmes.

I can honestly say, DP might be the better big when it comes to pick and roll plays. DP is quick on his feet, knows exactly when to go at it, and he has great hands, just a very good target for a lob.

But I'm NOT going to say Holmes is a marginal upgrade over DP. There are quite a few things Holmes has over DP. Number one on the list is rebounding. Holmes isn't a great rebounder, but DP's rebounding is just the worst. Both Holmes and DP are energy guys and blue collar players, but Holmes physique enables him to do more on both sides of the floor. I'm sure DP is tenacious, but it just doesn't show as much as Holmes who has the strength to move bodies out of his way. Holmes is almost Maxi-like in the perimeter. He is no more a liability than most of the bigs in the league. Holmes too can block shots, not at a very high rate, but Holmes protects the rim better than DP. Holmes like DP isn't someone you want to throw the ball to and ask to score off the dribble or the post. But Holmes is miles away the better player at this end. He can score as opposed to DP who couldn't. Holmes moves are simple and yet effective, while DP mostly scores from lobs or left open for a jumper.

Now here's the thing with DP and Holmes when it comes to offense. DP might be the better roller. But probably the reason why Holmes doesn't roll as much is because of that push shot, which is pretty good. Is that detrimental to a potential pick and roll with Luka? Not sure it is. Fans might be disappointed he isn't rolling as much if he gets to be a Mav. Fans will be expecting dunks not mid range floaters.

I still think Luka can make Holmes better than he is. Holmes doesn't have a Luka on his team to show how good he can be.

I think the main question here is do you need two Powell's (so you can have one of Holmes or Powell on the floor at all times), or is one enough to accomplish what you want to accomplish.  I agree with your assessment, but I'm not sure why you've mellowed on the guy you describe.

A couple of notes.  Holmes has not been as good this season as the last several.  He missed games with a right eye laceration and then Covid hit him fairly hard (kind of like Maxi never being fully himself last season).  The season before he was 8th in the league in block percent.  He was in the 87th percentile for defensive boards and the 97th percentile for TS%.  I'm a fan of Powell's game, but as you say, Holmes would be a substantial upgrade.  Personally, I'd be a fan of 48 minutes of rim running excellence with 30 of it coming with the defense Holmes brings.

(02-10-2022, 07:16 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I have mellowed down on Holmes.

I can honestly say, DP might be the better big when it comes to pick and roll plays. DP is quick on his feet, knows exactly when to go at it, and he has great hands, just a very good target for a lob.

But I'm NOT going to say Holmes is a marginal upgrade over DP. There are quite a few things Holmes has over DP. Number one on the list is rebounding. Holmes isn't a great rebounder, but DP's rebounding is just the worst. Both Holmes and DP are energy guys and blue collar players, but Holmes physique enables him to do more on both sides of the floor. I'm sure DP is tenacious, but it just doesn't show as much as Holmes who has the strength to move bodies out of his way. Holmes is almost Maxi-like in the perimeter. He is no more a liability than most of the bigs in the league. Holmes too can block shots, not at a very high rate, but Holmes protects the rim better than DP. Holmes like DP isn't someone you want to throw the ball to and ask to score off the dribble or the post. But Holmes is miles away the better player at this end. He can score as opposed to DP who couldn't. Holmes moves are simple and yet effective, while DP mostly scores from lobs or left open for a jumper.

Now here's the thing with DP and Holmes when it comes to offense. DP might be the better roller. But probably the reason why Holmes doesn't roll as much is because of that push shot, which is pretty good. Is that detrimental to a potential pick and roll with Luka? Not sure it is. Fans might be disappointed he isn't rolling as much if he gets to be a Mav. Fans will be expecting dunks not mid range floaters.

I still think Luka can make Holmes better than he is. Holmes doesn't have a Luka on his team to show how good he can be.

I have also mellowed on Holmes.  He is a good player.  But I wonder if we have seen his peak play from a year or two ago.

The main reason I mellowed on him is I really like this team when it plays 1 big.  KP isn't going anywhere right now and I am perfectly fine with Powell at the backup minutes at the 5.   I am just not sure investing resources and $ for another C is the best strategy as this team continues to improve.  I just really like the look of the team when they have one big who can rim run and skilled players on the outside.

(02-10-2022, 08:12 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I'd be a fan of 48 minutes of rim running excellence with 30 of it coming with the defense Holmes brings.

But if KP is healthy, you can't get that, because as should be abundantly clear, KP won't work with that. He doesn't play the way he did two years ago anymore, in Carlisle's offense, or want to. 

So, if KP's healthy, you're basically going to have Holmes/Powell fighting over the minutes Powell has now, right?

(02-10-2022, 08:14 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]The main reason I mellowed on him is I really like this team when it plays 1 big.  KP isn't going anywhere right now and I am perfectly fine with Powell at the backup minutes at the 5.

Yeah, this. 

I can't get around this. I just can't. I DO NOT WANT to go back to two centers playing at once. After seeing how moving Porzingis to the five (and playing him with shooters) has made everything start to look better here, I'm surprised anyone would want that. 

The only way Holmes makes sense here, imho, is as a Powell replacement, only Powell is far from a major problem lately, and probably wouldn't work in a Holmes deal.

(02-10-2022, 09:06 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, this. 

I can't get around this. I just can't. I DO NOT WANT to go back to two centers playing at once. After seeing how moving Porzingis to the five (and playing him with shooters) has made everything start to look better here, I'm surprised anyone would want that. 

The only way Holmes makes sense here, imho, is as a Powell replacement, only Powell is far from a major problem lately, and probably wouldn't work in a Holmes deal.

I think the argument for a Holmes, Bamba, Nurkic etc. would be that Kleber is a PF, Powell is a small-ball center, and Chriss/Boban/Brown need to be upgraded in case of a Porzingis injury, which is roughly 50% of the time.

Ideally for the future you want

Porzingis/Powell/Kleber/X/Chriss as your PF/C rotation. Best case that X has the upside to also step into the starting C role, when/if Porzingis is traded.

(02-10-2022, 09:25 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Best case that X has the upside to also step into the starting C role, when/if Porzingis is traded.

Powell is totally fine stepping into emergency starting C role and Chriss is totaly fine emergency back up. I don't see any sense adding another center to this mix.

(02-10-2022, 09:27 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Powell is totally fine stepping into emergency starting C role and Chriss is totaly fine emergency back up. I don't see any sense adding another center to this mix.

Yeah maybe during the regular season, but you saw what happened in the play-offs, when Porzingis went down in the Bubble. Kleber started and had -9, -25, -23 games. Powell got DNPs unplayable.

We paid Boban 3.5M/WCS 4.1M. Those salaries can be consolidate to 10.0M for a better insurance center. It´s obviously not the end of our roster construction, but it should be part of the discussion.

(02-10-2022, 09:25 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the argument for a Holmes, Bamba, Nurkic etc. would be that Kleber is a PF, Powell is a small-ball center, and Chriss/Boban/Brown need to be upgraded in case of a Porzingis injury, which is roughly 50% of the time.

Ideally for the future you want

Porzingis/Powell/Kleber/X/Chriss as your PF/C rotation. Best case that X has the upside to also step into the starting C role, when/if Porzingis is traded.

Holmes and Nurkic are starting centers and will cost that.  They don't make sense as a 4th big.  Also, DFS is part of the big rotation for "small ball" lineups, and I would argue our best lineup probably has DFS as PF.  We really wouldn't need anything more except that KP and Maxi are struggling to stay healthy, but I don't think it makes sense to spend for a starting center to fill that role.

(02-10-2022, 09:45 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah maybe during the regular season, but you saw what happened in the play-offs, when Porzingis went down in the Bubble. Kleber started and had -9, -25, -23 games. Powell got DNPs unplayable.

We paid Boban 3.5M/WCS 4.1M. Those salaries can be consolidate to 10.0M for a better insurance center. It´s obviously not the end of our roster construction, but it should be part of the discussion.

Kleber wasn´t playing a bigmen role in those games. For the most part he was guarding Kawhi. KP, Powell or any other big the Mavs could sign/trade for isn´t going to do a better job on the perimeter. If that´s what you want to improve the Mavs should look for a big wing.