MavsBoard

(01-17-2022, 01:49 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_TradeDeadline/statu...7463395334

I'm intrigued by the Mavs' involvement in these rumors. I'm intrigued by Turner, the player. 

But, if the plan is to put him with Porzingis, I'm going to lose my mind. I don't think I can watch that unfold.

I honestly think DFS and Powell would help Indiana a lot. I'd really hate to lose DFS.

(01-17-2022, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm intrigued by the Mavs' involvement in these rumors. I'm intrigued by Turner, the player. 

But, if the plan is to put him with Porzingis, I'm going to lose my mind. I don't think I can watch that unfold.

100% agree.

I keep coming back to the Spurs' disgruntlement of not being aware KP was available when the Mavs traded for him. If Pop likes KP, I still want to try to pry away Murray. The thing is, Turner is not a "part of your big three" guy; he's a fourth piece. It would likely take JB or DFS being included to get Murray from the Spurs, and you used the other to get Turner. A Luka-Murray-Turner-THJ core is still better than a Luka-KP-JB-THJ core, but it's not going to get you to the promised land. What if Grant was available for THJ and a FRP? Luka-Murray-Grant-Turner might be an adequate core. But the Murray pursuit (which mvossman has relentlessly shot down as a true possibility) would still be the lynchpin.

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(01-17-2022, 02:07 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly think DFS and Powell would help Indiana a lot. I'd really hate to lose DFS.

I would foresee many nights of crying in my beer after games if we traded DFS in a trade that wasn't for a big three piece.

(01-17-2022, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm intrigued by the Mavs' involvement in these rumors. I'm intrigued by Turner, the player. 

But, if the plan is to put him with Porzingis, I'm going to lose my mind. I don't think I can watch that unfold.

So lets look at that for a second.  If we send out DFS, then we will likely always have 2 bigs in the lineup between KP/Turner/Maxi/Chriss, so no need for DFS at the 4.  This would assume we are going to pay what it takes to keep Brunson and he starts next to Luka.  Based on our conversation on the other thread, the starting lineup would be Turner/KP/Bullock/Luka/Brunson with a bench of Chriss/Maxi/THJ/Green/Frank.  Is that a better team than what we have now?  Would still have tax issues.  Would still want to move on from THJ as he seems to struggle in the 6th man role.

The other option is Brunson going out.  Then DFS is your 3 and you are looking at Turner/KP/DFS/THJ/Luka.  There is zero playmaking on that lineup other than Luka.  Don't think that is what Kidd is looking for.  Maybe this is when you try to turn KP into Simmons?

(01-17-2022, 01:49 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_TradeDeadline/statu...7463395334

Get rid of Powell and get Turner for DFS?  Easy decision for me.  It would be sad to see DFS go and dealing with the cowpocalypse reaction.

(01-17-2022, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm intrigued by the Mavs' involvement in these rumors. I'm intrigued by Turner, the player. 

But, if the plan is to put him with Porzingis, I'm going to lose my mind. I don't think I can watch that unfold.

I don’t know what to think of the fit. Isn’t he pretty mobile? 

https://youtu.be/VXHcAI1iTWo

Only a bunch of possessions but he’s certainly not on KP‘s level moving around on the perimeter.

Haven’t watched him nearly enough for a strong opinion.

(01-17-2022, 02:22 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe this is when you try to turn KP into Simmons?

If another shoe (like this one, but not limited to this one) dropped, my attitude would change.

I really think trading DFS would be a mistake. How long have we all discussed wanting the likes of RoCo? I'm not going to freak out though, I'll probably just stop watching the team for a while.

(01-17-2022, 01:49 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_TradeDeadline/statu...7463395334

Why is Turner's trade value so low?  Surely it would be Powell + DFS + FRP?

(01-17-2022, 02:47 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Why is Turner's trade value so low?  Surely it would be Powell + DFS + FRP?

Idk, man. The rumor included Brunson as an option, too, and I think he's WAY more valuable than Turner.

I guess we might find out!

I don’t think Ind would believe JB would resign with them unless they traded Brogdon (which they can’t this season). A 3 team trade:

Knicks get JB and salary filler (if needed)
Ind gets Powell, our 2022 and young player compensation from the Knicks 
Mavs get MT and 2023 back from Knicks

We follow that up with a trade for Kemba taken into the TPE for a second rounder or 2.

That sounds like a doable deal to me.

(01-17-2022, 02:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Idk, man. The rumor included Brunson as an option, too, and I think he's WAY more valuable than Turner.

I guess we might find out!

I'm just going off the report that Indiana wants two first for Turner.  That might be chest puffing but I'd think they'd want at least one.  You'd have to squint pretty hard to call Powell a neutral asset.  Yes, he has ties to Rick and is a good culture guy but that and his play aren't worth 11 million.  As you and I have discussed, DFS doesn't really have trade value even if he is a player you want on your team.  He's expiring and is going to get paid so you could just wait until the offseason and give him a slight overpay (starting at 13m).    DFS as the principle in the trade just doesn't make sense unless we include a pick.  

Brunson makes more sense.  Surely he and his bird rights (those are tradeable right), are worth a FRP+.  That kind of satisfies Indiana's ask for Turner with the + being absorbing Powell's contract.  I wouldn't do the deal personally but structurally it seems a lot more fair.

I guess I've come around on the idea of going all in on building the franchise around Luka and JB.  It's why I think Dorian and Maxi are even more important.  I really think the play is to try to extract value from KP/THJ and get more role players in the ilk of Dorian and Maxi.

(01-17-2022, 02:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If another shoe (like this one, but not limited to this one) dropped, my attitude would change.

Hardaway + KP + 2 Dallas FRP --> Sixers

Brunson + Moses --> Knicks

Powell + DFS + Green --> Pacers

Walker + Harris + Turner + Simmons --> Mavs

Hard to wrap my brain around what a team would look like starting Luka, Bullock, Harris, Simmons and Turner. A mess offensively? Or brilliant? A total train wreck? Dominant? That's two first team all defensive players, multiple creators, some shooting. Also some bricklayers and weird fits. You'd start four guys who could legitimately start at center in today's NBA. Two point guards. Four classic wings and a center who can defend the perimeter. I mean, talk about a shakeup lol.

(01-17-2022, 02:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Idk, man. The rumor included Brunson as an option, too, and I think he's WAY more valuable than Turner.

I guess we might find out!

In Brunson and Powell for Turner, they're doing you the solid of taking on the contract of a guy paid at least twice what he ought to be. That's what largely balances it out. If DFS and Powell (with no picks outgoing) got it done, that's probably a good indication of what you, me, cow, and fif have been saying all along - DON'T. TRADE. DFS.

(01-17-2022, 02:57 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think Ind would believe JB would resign with them unless they traded Brogdon (which they can’t this season). A 3 team trade:

Knicks get JB and salary filler (if needed)
Ind gets Powell, our 2022 and young player compensation from the Knicks 
Mavs get MT and 2023 back from Knicks

We follow that up with a trade for Kemba taken into the TPE for a second rounder or 2.

That sounds like a doable deal to me.

I kind of like this if JB has to go.  Not sure you can combine the TPE with 2nd rounders.  I'd also be okay with a Bullock for Kemba swap.

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(01-17-2022, 02:58 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Hardaway + KP + 2 Dallas FRP --> Sixers

Brunson + Moses --> Knicks

Powell + DFS + Green --> Pacers

Walker + Harris + Turner + Simmons --> Mavs

Hard to wrap my brain around what a team would look like starting Luka, Bullock, Harris, Simmons and Turner. A mess offensively? Or brilliant? A total train wreck? Dominant? That's two first team all defensive players, multiple creators, some shooting. Also some bricklayers and weird fits. You'd start four guys who could legitimately start at center in today's NBA. Two point guards. Four classic wings and a center who can defend the perimeter. I mean, talk about a shakeup lol.

So the idea is Knicks give 23 FRP to Mavs and Mavs give 22/24 FRP to Sixers?  I'd question the Sixer's interest in KP so you might need to add another team.  As an aside, I think they might be really interested in Brunson.  I have thought about that trade scenario much.

(01-17-2022, 02:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Idk, man. The rumor included Brunson as an option, too, and I think he's WAY more valuable than Turner.

I guess we might find out!

The "rumor" as posted sounded simple. But looking at the rumor again, I see it's just an idea, reflective of what some think Turner is worth, or would cost Dallas.

DP-DFS is the much simpler route if you MUST do the deal. (Turner for DP-Brunson isn't a trade match.)*

Of course, we've despaired for years about the Mavs inability to find 3-and-D guys, and about the Mavs amassing higher priced centers when they are cheap and easy to find. Now, we wanna do it again?



*With DP-JB, putting another player in then makes it a 3-for-1, which then makes it hard for Indy to fit into roster, which then makes them want to include more players, and then you have to weigh the impact of each addition (both in salary, value, and match), and it gets complicated.

(01-16-2022, 02:38 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I still don't understand the thinking that since JB is worth a lot, and is going to get paid what he's worth, then that somehow will make him "cost too much" for the Mavs price range. (Of course, if we are thinking JB will get paid way way more than he's worth, that's a different matter, but I don't think that's what's being said.)

The Mavs have certainly been needing better talent overall. But better talent costs more money. ~shrug~

In addition, there is no rules restriction -- the Mavs do have the ability, under the rules, to pay JB (and DFS too) whatever it takes. It's only a matter of their willingness to pay.

So as I see it, if JB is a highly talented key player, you pay him. Should Cuban be too cheap or broke to pay what it takes to put a more talented team on the floor, he needs to get out of the business.

As JB has improved his play every year, and even during the year, and the teamwork between JB and Luka has improved greatly...I am certainly leaning the way you are thinking.  Good points.

(01-17-2022, 03:16 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]*With DP-JB, putting another player in then makes it a 3-for-1, which then makes it hard for Indy to fit into roster, which then makes them want to include more players, and then you have to weigh the impact of each addition (both in salary, value, and match), and it gets complicated.

Could you skirt the rules and do a 2nd trade utilizing the TPE for the salary filler from Indy?

As long as Mavs have Luka and Brunson, two of the most skilled and most consistent players in the entire league, we will most likely always be a playoff team, always competitive. I dont see us ever end up tanking. We know we will get production from both Luka and Brunson every single game. We know Brunson will lead Mavs in games where Luka is out. When the two are starting, there is potential for true dominance and we have seen some of that in recent games. The tandem allows for a dynasty in case other roster spots are built well - with players that fit them. The ceiling is really high. The minimum is a play-in tournament or a playoff spot and exit in first round in case the rest of the team is built really bad.

 It's a no brainer to keep Brunson. He is doing some things with his footwork and finishing around the rim, where i think, OK I haven't seen anyone do that today in the NBA. We have a special player here in Brunson. Unless we get another proven star, I would never let him be traded.