(01-27-2022, 01:47 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs equivalent would be roughly Powell and DFS. Would they throw in RoCo if we add THJ and a first? Would you do Powell, DFS, THJ and FRP for McCollum and RoCo? Sounds interesting to me, although Brunson might not be happy.
I assume by this you mean DFS is roughly JV value and Powell is Hart value?
I don't think you trade for CJ unless you are unloading Brunson. Too much overlap between those two (include defensive deficiencies).
(01-27-2022, 02:00 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, but I think you are extremely overvaluing Maxi. He has huge offensive limitations. Even we here mostly agree he is best used as a bench guy. White would be the starter next to Young. But would SA perhaps be more interested in assets than Collins for whatever reason? Lets say:
SA: THJ, Green, 2025 FRP
Atl: White, 2027 FRP
Dal: Collins
Bring bought out Dragic and this team looks considerably better and perhaps ready to win it now.
If THJ, Green and pick can get you white, then I am getting our pick from NY (through Brunson trade) and getting White for myself. Then I create a package for Collins that can include picks. KP/Collins/DFS/Luka/White is a contender for years.
(01-27-2022, 03:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I assume by this you mean DFS is roughly JV value and Powell is Hart value?
I was looking that Portland wants a cost controlled big (JV) and cost controlled wing (Hart). Powell and DFS are also that. Powell is worse than JV (but JV in my opinion is a huge liability in playoffs) and DFS is better than Hart, so lets say it is approximately same offer.
(01-27-2022, 03:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you trade for CJ unless you are unloading Brunson. Too much overlap between those two (include defensive deficiencies).
Agree
I'd love to have Smart here for his old contract of about $12mm a year. He's an awesome defensive role player. I just like him a lot less at his new $19mm a year, as that's really steep for what he offers.
(01-27-2022, 03:16 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]I'd love to have Smart here for his old contract of about $12mm a year. He's an awesome defensive role player. I just like him a lot less at his new $19mm a year, as that's really steep for what he offers.
He's not getting 19mm a year until 2024-2025. 3 years from now.
At that point the difference between Smart's contract and THJ's current contract would be 3.7 mil. The cap is expected to go up at least that amount by then so it's a wash in terms of impact on the % of team payroll.
Smart is getting paid 13.8 this year, 16.6 next, then 18.5. The last 2 years are a kicker but aren't team killing.
I think it's worth it. The defensive impact he brings would be huge.
(01-27-2022, 06:39 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Ian Begley basically saying the Knicks are getting ready to offer Brunson a deal north of 20 mil a year.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/j02gyYC9eTIZ2/giphy.gif)
Time to trade JB I guess.
(01-27-2022, 06:47 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]
Time to trade JB I guess.
Honestly....
I mean I love Brunson. But he isn't a 20+mil a year player. I guess it depends on how he does in the playoffs? But if the GSW game is any indication, he'll get swallowed alive.
Lets say we just trade Brunson to the Knicks, let them offer him his 20mil deal, and we get our first and maybe another pick out of the deal. We then use those to get Collins and Schroeder. Then sign Dragic on the eventual buyout market.
Can a platoon of Dragic+Schroeder replicate at least 50-70% of what JB brings? And if so wouldn't it just make sense to go that way if we can net a guy like Collins?
(01-27-2022, 07:17 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly....
I mean I love Brunson. But he isn't a 20+mil a year player. I guess it depends on how he does in the playoffs? But if the GSW game is any indication, he'll get swallowed alive.
Lets say we just trade Brunson to the Knicks, let them offer him his 20mil deal, and we get our first and maybe another pick out of the deal. We then use those to get Collins and Schroeder. Then sign Dragic on the eventual buyout market.
Can a platoon of Dragic+Schroeder replicate at least 50-70% of what JB brings? And if so wouldn't it just make sense to go that way if we can net a guy like Collins?
I don't want Shroeder in the locker room. Maybe you could squeeze more value out of Knicks if you offered a second trade and take Kemba in the TPE. Part of me wonders if they could just be creative with their team options or look at other salary dumps which would allow them to sign JB in the offseason without needed to trade with us.
I feel like JB is gone in the off season. The relationships between JB and the Knicks are there and I have heard and read that relationships in the NBA are bigger factor than most think. I think the mpst prudent move for the Mavs is to pump JBs value until the trade deadline and trade him for a replacement starter and a FRP or two and use that picks to get a player who is a clear upgrade.
I am thinking of maybe the Knicks are willing to get JB for a FRP or two and then aggregate one FRP with DP and Maxi for Collins.
I heard from Keith Smith that the Hawks are looking for a starter and a FRP for Collins, and that they may also looking for a couple of contracts that may expire sooner. DP and Maxi fits these criteria: Maxi is starting caliber player and both are expiring contracts in 2023.
(01-27-2022, 07:59 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like JB is gone in the off season. The relationships between JB and the Knicks are there and I have heard and read that relationships in the NBA are bigger factor than most think. I think the mpst prudent move for the Mavs is to pump JBs value until the trade deadline and trade him for a replacement starter and a FRP or two and use that picks to get a player who is a clear upgrade.
I am thinking of maybe the Knicks are willing to get JB for a FRP or two and then aggregate one FRP with DP and Maxi for Collins.
I heard from Keith Smith that the Hawks are looking for a starter and a FRP for Collins, and that they may also looking for a couple of contracts that may expire sooner. DP and Maxi fits these criteria: Maxi is starting caliber player and both are expiring contracts in 2023.
I just don't see a scenario where you could squeeze two FRPs for Jalen. Like I mentioned above, I'm starting to go the other way where I'd be surprised if you could get one. His salary is so small, trades are going to be very complicated if you are trying to return another player.
Optimistically, I think Jalen is worth at least a FRP even if he is traded as rental. If OKC is demanding a FRP for Kenrich Williams, I think Jalen is at least worth as much.
(01-27-2022, 08:27 PM)RedFlag41 Wrote: [ -> ]Optimistically, I think Jalen is worth at least a FRP even if he is traded as rental. If OKC is demanding a FRP for Kenrich Williams, I think Jalen is at least worth as much.
I would go far as to say that Jalen is as valuable as a guy like Fox or Haliburton.
(01-27-2022, 08:06 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see a scenario where you could squeeze two FRPs for Jalen. Like I mentioned above, I'm starting to go the other way where I'd be surprised if you could get one. His salary is so small, trades are going to be very complicated if you are trying to return another player.
Why not JB + Burke for Kemba + our first? Then you have an extra roster spot for Dragic.
I would be up for going after Collins, but not sure he is really on the block. If so, I don't think we have enough to get him with one first, but maybe Powell + Bullock + 2 firsts? That still leaves you a starter short with limited resources.
Personally I lean towards scorched earth trade. Send KP + Powell + Bullock for CJ + Covington + Nurkic. Do that trade plus the Brunson trade and you have starting lineup of Nurk/RoCo/DFS/Luka/CJ and second unit Chriss/Maxi/Green/Frank/Kemba and access to all of our picks.
(01-27-2022, 08:51 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Why not JB + Burke for Kemba + our first? Then you have an extra roster spot for Dragic.
I would be up for going after Collins, but not sure he is really on the block. If so, I don't think we have enough to get him with one first, but maybe Powell + Bullock + 2 firsts? That still leaves you a starter short with limited resources.
I get the desire to trade Powell (or retain Maxi), but Atlanta has no use for Powell given the C’s they have already. Maxi is the much better fit for them.
(01-27-2022, 09:01 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I get the desire to trade Powell (or retain Maxi), but Atlanta has no use for Powell given the C’s they have already. Maxi is the much better fit for them.
Another reason I would prefer to go the Portland route, who I think in a much more desperate position than Atlanta.
Powell is just "near-expiring" salary for Atlanta. I heard that Atlanta may go for two contracts that are expiring or will expire sooner than Collins' contract. And, that they are essentially looking for a starter and a FRP fo Collins. He is very much available. And, I think if the Mavericks really want him, they may be able to do so, if thry play their cards just right.
(01-27-2022, 08:36 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I would go far as to say that Jalen is as valuable as a guy like Fox or Haliburton.
I'd rather have Jalen than Fox. Fox has the "advantage" of being under contract for four seasons after this one. Haliburton is also under contract next season, then a club option the following and a RFA after that. You have a lot more control by trading for the players you listed.
The value of trading for Jalen now, beyond a half season of play, is maybe that instills confidence in him towards your organization and that might help that organization fit them in their cap structure.
Now for some wild ass speculation on my part since the NBA loves tampering, New York tampering with Jalen would be extremely easy because of their relationship with his dad. The question becomes how hard is it for the Knicks to clear the ~$15m (if the $20m+ rumor is true) off their cap next year to just outright sign Jalen? And would that cap clearing exercise be less expensive than trading for him at the TDL?
That's why my original idea was Robinson for Jalen, Bullock for Kemba, and our 23rd pick back. That's assuming the Knicks don't plan to retain Robinson and he very well might be a half season rental for the Mavs. This was back when Kemba was benched so it would have actually been doing the Knicks a solid. I have no idea where that relationship is now. I'm starting to think even that trade idea is far fetched.
(01-27-2022, 02:29 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Have to call NYK up to do that and also pay whatever they're asking for.
What I was getting at with my question.
(01-27-2022, 01:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Basically the equivalent is Maxi and a first too.
I think we can do that. In fact I hope the Mavs can do that.
Disagree on both counts, IMO:
White>Kleber
SA 1st>Dal 1st