MavsBoard

(02-10-2023, 12:07 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: [ -> ]At some point, don't you have to blame the player?

No doubt, and I don't think anyone disagrees with this. 

Like @"DanSchwartzgan", I'm getting tired of the conversation, but basically, the disconnect has been/is about the binary nature of people's opinions.

I think it's very clear that Wood's less than ideal path to gaining a toehold in the NBA (something he still hasn't accomplished, definitively) is in large part self-inflicted. There is loads of info out there about missing practices and being generally unprofessional. He really doesn't seem to "get it", generally speaking. 

But, many of us saw his talent as a lifeline for a roster that really, really needed a talent infusion. It seemed like it was in the team's best interest to meet him halfway in an attempt to "fix" him. To take the time that other teams wouldn't in order to get him "caught up" to where a mid to late 20's pro player should be. If successful, this would've been a way to fix/flip the asset/talent situation in large part...to erase the Porzingis mistake and cover up for other, similar missteps. The Mavs were (are?) in a unique situation where they had no choice but to be good to a certain extent, but had no way of getting to the top of the league. A young, rebuilding team would have no interest in dealing with the headaches of Wood because of his age and a world of more attractive possibilities in terms of young potential, which is probably the hardest thing to pinpoint for those guys, and no contender is going to upset something that's working almost well enough to feature a journeyman who doesn't really have the requisite experience and know how to slide into a well-oiled machine. The Mavericks were in the specific situation where taking a risk like that made sense, which is why I thought they made the trade in the first place. 

On top of all that, what was exciting to me is that if this project is/had been successful, Wood is the type of center that's working in the league right now. A guy with quick feet (for a big, not for a forward, obviously) who can shoot or handle from a face up position, but who can also punish people in the paint, offensively. I saw (and still see) no reason he can't grow to be a fine help side defender and shot blocker. He has the length, quickness and agility for it., and he seems to like to compete. He just doesn't always see the way the actions are developing far enough in advance to be in good position. Even a dumb guy can be taught that stuff, if he's trying to learn (maybe he's not, and that's the part we can't see). 

I bet Wood thought this was an opportunity to earn a featured role on a good team. He has basically said things that indicate as much. Whether you feel like he hasn't been given enough of a chance or that he's squandered another good one (the answer is always somewhere in between), what drives me crazy is the idea that in the situation they were in over the summer, losing Brunson for nothing, they traded a 1st for a guy not to see if he could be what he thinks he can be, but to try to convince him he's what they thought he could be before getting him in the building. That's not a "gamble", it's a waste of time. 

TL;DR: it's possible that what I wanted for Wood is similar to what they wanted for him, and he just couldn't get it done. But, a lot of the people on the other side of this season long argument seemed to have a different vision in mind for him, and that vision has been much closer to what has played out for him, opportunity wise. I don't know that it's factual they were right (lots of behind the scenes stuff we'll never know), but if they were, that's not something I would've traded for at the time. I have never advocated for the Mavs to "give" him a role, but I think I only make that trade in the hopes of him "earning" the role I'm envisioning, and not some silly 20 minute bench role in which he's a heat check scorer and we're all just resigned to the idea that he's not a core player. Sure, that can be a valuable piece, but not worth that trade this summer, given the situation the Mavs were in. 

Now, after the Irving trade, I have almost no life force left for "developing" him, either way, and I doubt the Mavs do, either.

Not that there is anything wrong with ambition, but Wood's ambition always seems a step or two too far ahead of the reality of his situation.  I was working on a thread idea about what the TDL might have taught us about the current roster.  Was mostly thinking about Josh and THJ, but Wood was part of that idea too.

Daily reminder to extend Wood

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3564...left-clock

Fun read

(02-13-2023, 09:15 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3564...left-clock

Fun read

Most interesting part.

Quote:Most Contested FGA off a pass with 2 or fewer seconds left on shot clock
Player

Marcus Morris Sr.
118
Nikola Jokic
114
Jimmy Butler
111
Carmelo Anthony
107
Tim Hardaway Jr.
106
DeMar DeRozan
105

Confirming something we discussed in the THJ thread. He is one of the teams primary options for late shot clock / bailout attempts. Some of the "bad" shots he takes aren´t on him.

(02-13-2023, 09:58 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Most interesting part.


Confirming something we discussed in the THJ thread. He is one of the teams primary options for late shot clock / bailout attempts. Some of the "bad" shots he takes aren´t on him.

Yeah, someone posted an Iztok tweet that talked about how upping the transition offense got better looks for a lot of guys but Timmy was still getting all of the grenades.

(02-13-2023, 09:58 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Confirming something we discussed in the THJ thread. He is one of the teams primary options for late shot clock / bailout attempts. Some of the "bad" shots he takes aren´t on him.

Just to add. The stat is a cumulative from last 10 seasons, not per season. At least that is how I understood the article.

I dont know the stats...

But to try and suggest my eyes are lying to me about THJ forcing unnecessary shots when shot clock is not in play seems odd.

I feel like there is an attempt to misdirect attention away from those bad shots or the refusal to pass the rock on his part.

Regardless...if he is paid because he is a "shooter"...he should be hitting those late clock shots because he is a "designated shooter" according to you all.  

Excuses are running thin and border desperate.

I apologize that this is not conversed in the THJ thread.

(02-13-2023, 10:38 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Just to add. The stat is a cumulative from last 10 seasons, not per season. At least that is how I understood the article.

Oh, so THJ with 10 per season, while might be hurting his percentage a bit, isn’t an excuse for his low percentage.

(02-13-2023, 11:54 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, so THJ with 10 per season, while might be hurting his percentage a bit, isn’t an excuse for his low percentage.

Cannot really make that assumption because he wasn´t getting the same amount of minutes and shot attempts before he joined the Mavs. Scrolling through the tracking numbers the volume of late shot clock shots increased after he joined the Mavs.

Not an excuse for his percentages but it might give us an idea why the coaches aren´t as concerned about his shot selection as some posters. We had this discussion in the past and it looks like THJ is one of the designated choices for bailout plays. They aren´t losing sleep over a long iso three or a contested catch and shoot attempt in late shot clock situations.

(02-13-2023, 12:25 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Cannot really make that assumption because he wasn´t getting the same amount of minutes and shot attempts before he joined the Mavs. Scrolling through the tracking numbers the volume of late shot clock shots increased after he joined the Mavs.

Not an excuse for his percentages but it might give us an idea why the coaches aren´t as concerned about his shot selection as some posters. We had this discussion in the past and it looks like THJ is one of the designated choices for bailout plays. They aren´t losing sleep over a long iso three or a contested catch and shoot attempt in late shot clock situations.

Which is why he hasn’t been in trade rumors for the last 2 years?

(02-13-2023, 12:25 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Cannot really make that assumption because he wasn´t getting the same amount of minutes and shot attempts before he joined the Mavs. Scrolling through the tracking numbers the volume of late shot clock shots increased after he joined the Mavs.

Not an excuse for his percentages but it might give us an idea why the coaches aren´t as concerned about his shot selection as some posters. We had this discussion in the past and it looks like THJ is one of the designated choices for bailout plays. They aren´t losing sleep over a long iso three or a contested catch and shoot attempt in late shot clock situations.

How about the early/mid shot clock chucks when teammates are open?

While I think Void overstates the case, THJ seems to be a good locker room/cheerleading teammate, and I'm very glad at how much his defense has improved, he's deadly to the Mavs on the offensive end.

(02-13-2023, 12:31 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Which is why he hasn’t been in trade rumors for the last 2 years?

The same logic applies to everyone not named Luka. I would happily upgrade THJ if that is an option.
Better to ask  why he has been a starter for nearly his entire Mavs career. Why RC valued him. Why Kidd lets him play like this. What I am saying is that there seems to be a noticable difference between the coaches/staff opinion and the way fans think about THJ.

(02-13-2023, 12:33 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]How about the early/mid shot clock chucks when teammates are open?

While I think Void overstates the case, THJ seems to be a good locker room/cheerleading teammate, and I'm very glad at how much his defense has improved, he's deadly to the Mavs on the offensive end.

Offense is six points better with THJ on the floor this season. What stands out are the offensive numbers next to the Mavs playmakers. By far the best among Mavs wings.

Looking at the offensive rating:

THJ/Luka: 122.2
Green/Luka: 119.7
DFS/Luka 116.2
Bullock/Luka: 114.7

SD/Luka 115.8
SD/THJ 115.0
SD/DFS 113.8
SD/Bullock 111.3
SD/Green 105.8

Same trend in a small sample size next to Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ 131.0
Kyrie/Luka 127.4
Kyrie/Bullock 125.0
Kyrie/Green 120.1

(02-13-2023, 12:33 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]How about the early/mid shot clock chucks when teammates are open?

While I think Void overstates the case, THJ seems to be a good locker room/cheerleading teammate, and I'm very glad at how much his defense has improved, he's deadly to the Mavs on the offensive end.

I mean, is he?  He has one of the highest offensive ratings on the team.  His OEPM (which accounts for who is playing with on the court and who he is playing against) is 4th best on the team.  In fact for many seasons (dating back to prior to Mavs tenure) his offensive on court impact has been better than what his boxscore stats would suggest.  There is a lot of noise in on court impact, but when the trend lasts for most of a players career it starts to have a lot of meaning.  I'm guessing the reasons for this is that his quick trigger generates a lot more gravity than our 3&D guys who need to be wide open and are much lower volume shooters.  That gravity gives guys like Luka and Kyrie a lot more room to maneuver.

(02-13-2023, 12:42 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]The same logic applies to everyone not named Luka. I would happily upgrade THJ if that is an option.
Better to ask  why he has been a starter for nearly his entire Mavs career. Why RC valued him. Why Kidd lets him play like this. What I am saying is that there seems to be a noticable difference between the coaches/staff opinion and the way fans think about THJ.

Better to ask why other teams don’t value him the way the Mavs coaching/FO does, cause he HAS been in trade rumors the last 2 years. It’s literally all that needs to be said in this instance. They tried to figure out a way to not resign him, when their option failed, they resigned him and that year put him in trade rumors at the TDL.

(02-13-2023, 02:07 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Better to ask why other teams don’t value him the way the Mavs coaching/FO does, cause he HAS been in trade rumors the last 2 years. It’s literally all that needs to be said in this instance. They tried to figure out a way to not resign him, when their option failed, they resigned him and that year put him in trade rumors at the TDL.

Now we are just making things up? THJ could have signed with the Pistons. Based on the reports they offered more than the Mavs.
No reason to continue this It doesn´t matter how many BS claims are refuted. He tanks the offense. I provided the numbers. No body wants him. I just reminded you of the big offer from the Pistons.
You want a scapegoat. And for whatever reason that´s either THJ´s or Powell´s role.

Since THJ arguments are in full swing today (shocking!) I think it boils down to this:

He isn't a perfect or great player, and nobody says otherwise. I think we're all ready to change him into a more helpful player, but there's SOMEONE I want more than any player on this team except for Luka (maybe). 

But it's ridiculous to try to suggest he's the problem or that the Mavs would be better off just removing him from the situation. Like, that's just straight up incorrect and clearly, the pros, both in the front office and on the roster, do not agree. 

THJ is one of the top 6 players on this team, easy. Sorry, it's just a fact. Do we hope for roster improvement? Sure. We always will, just like fans of every team. But this irrational hatred of him, as though he's doing something to us, is just bananas. He's here. He's going to be one of the offensive focal points on the team down the stretch and in the playoffs. He is improving defensively, trying really hard. He's NOT a ball stopper. He IS a willing passer. Stating any of these things shouldn't be controversial.

(02-13-2023, 02:22 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Now we are just making things up? THJ could have signed with the Pistons. Based on the reports they offered more than the Mavs.
No reason to continue this It doesn´t matter how many BS claims are refuted. He tanks the offense. I provided the numbers. No body wants him. I just reminded you of the big offer from the Pistons.
You want a scapegoat. And for whatever reason that´s either THJ´s or Powell´s role.

Huh? Were we not trying to sign Lowry instead of him (good decision or not) that very offseason? What did I change in that part if the narrative? The offers he passed up from the other teams (you failed to mention NO offer as well), if they wanted him so bad, he was available to be traded to the very next TDL til now (edit: on a contract less than they were once willing to pay). Why is THJ still on this team? I don’t know just the same as you don’t and your guess is not better than mine!

What did I make up?