MavsBoard

(12-02-2022, 09:59 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]I reserve the right to change my mind but for me, the shine is wearing off Christian Wood. 

I think this is a good way to put it...the shine is wearing off.  He's not trash, but he's not special either.  He teases enough ability that you want to invest in him hoping he's the guy you think you see in those moments.  He's not a center and it takes a very specific kind of center to allow Wood to start at PF and get the most out of him.  I'm not sure who else Wood would start for across the league (Charlotte?  Does Indy take him over Jalen Smith? Miami? NY?).  The fact it is discussed so much here is more of indictment against Dallas than an endorsement of Wood.

(12-02-2022, 10:18 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Kidd has absolutely succeeded.

Is this a bit, or do you think Kidd is intentionally tanking Wood's value?

(12-02-2022, 10:34 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]He's not a center

Yes, he is. I'm more sure of this with each passing game. 

What he's NOT is a forward.

(12-02-2022, 12:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, he is. I'm more sure of this with each passing game. 

What he's NOT is a forward.

He´s neither and that´s the problem. On offense you want him to play center because that unleashes his full potential. He can face up and take slower guys of the dribble. He can roll and pop. If needed he can post up.
But on defense he really doesn´t have a position in the modern NBA. Not a traditional center. No rim protection and no boxouts. Bad pick and roll defense. But moving him to the perimeter isn´t possible because he cannot stay in front of guards/wings. Not suited for the McGee role. Also not able to play a Powell/Kleber-like role.

Undeniable a really talented scorer but it´s difficult to find a role for him.

(12-02-2022, 12:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]He´s neither and that´s the problem. On offense you want him to play center because that unleashes his full potential. He can face up and take slower guys of the dribble. He can roll and pop. If needed he can post up.
But on defense he really doesn´t have a position in the modern NBA. Not a traditional center. No rim protection and no boxouts. Bad pick and roll defense. But moving him to the perimeter isn´t possible because he cannot stay in front of guards/wings. Not suited for the McGee role. Also not able to play a Powell/Kleber-like role.

Undeniable a really talented scorer but it´s difficult to find a role for him.

I agree with this, kind of. Would push back on the "traditional center" because to me, nowadays, that's just a way of saying "bad player." But I know you're not guilty of thinking the way most people do when they use that term...I just think you're in a slightly different spot than me on that spectrum. 

As for the rest...the logic with Wood for me looks like this:

Wood at Forward: instincts aren't right on either end, severely lacking in foot speed on defense, can't really box out quicker players, so rebounding (which can be a strength of his) becomes even worse as a result of him playing, offensive skill seems forced, out of place and not at all to his strengths or the team's. 

Wood at Center: instincts much more natural, even if not always to winning effect. Defense is still a problem but no more so than at forward, and at least there's hope for improvement because it's ALL mental at the 5. His speed, quickness and size are more than sufficient to play defense that position (and NOT sufficient to defend at forward). Offensively, he's "special" at that position when going well, and if/when he becomes consistent, both individually and when it comes to operating within the scheme, I'd say he might be a top 5 offensive center in the league. 

To me, this shouldn't even be a conversation. He flatly does NOT have potential to be a difference maker at forward. He'll always be overmatched, athletically.

(12-02-2022, 12:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Is this a bit, or do you think Kidd is intentionally tanking Wood's value?

MacMahon reported that Kidd has been trying to "break" Wood so that he does not think of himself as a "star." I think Kidd has broken him. He has lost his confidence and swagger for the most part and looks scared and hesitant on the floor. Wood looks like his soul has been swallowed and it has absolutely hurt his play on both ends. 

Maybe Kidd is right and this is the best long term thing to do. But I fundamentally disagree with how Kidd has handled Wood. The Mavs desperately need confidence, swagger, and "star" like thinking alongside Luka. And he took the one guy with that on the team and is crushing it out of him.

RE: Wood's Position

I frankly do not care. He is a basketball player and he has talent and athletic ability. A good coach IMO would nurture that and just figure out a way to make it work, putting whatever combination of players next to Luka and Wood to make it work. 

I think how Kidd is USING Wood is the whole issue and the position issue wouldn't be a thing unless Kidd were forcing Wood to play a "position" within his scheme. But yes Wood does not clearly fit a position in how KIDD envisions the positions in his system.

(12-02-2022, 01:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think how Kidd is USING Wood is the whole issue and the position issue wouldn't be a thing unless Kidd were forcing Wood to play a "position" within his scheme. But yes Wood does not clearly fit a position in how KIDD envisions the positions in his system.

I get where you're coming from with this, trust me. On a purely macro level I totally agree. The thing is, "system" is absolutely necessary in order to get 15 people to coordinate their efforts toward a common goal, organizationally, and it's much harder than we think to completely redesign that stuff on the fly, even in (one) training camp. 

The things I've seen you begging for, regarding making Luka/Wood two-man the centerpiece of the offense system sort of require him to be played at the 5, imho, because it requires certain defenders to be in place opposing it to reach full effect. There aren't very many teams playing two bigs anymore, so the days of 1-4 pick and roll are kind of behind us (for now).

(12-02-2022, 01:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]making Luka/Wood two-man the centerpiece of the offense system sort of require him to be played at the 5

Then play him at the "5." Or play him at the "4" if you figure out a way to do that. 

All I care about: Play your damn talent!

Watching the Mavs play Detroit last night was just another reminder of how little talent the Mavs have. SO LITTLE TALENT. And Wood is one of the only bright spots on that front.

My problem isn´t that Kidd doesn´t trust Wood on defense. I think that is totally reasonable. My problem is the inconsistency. If it is all about defense what are THJ, SD and Bullock doing on the floor. They are just as bad. Maybe even worse.
Just feels like there is some kind of double standard. Listening to Kidd´s post game interviews he likes to single out Wood. Not suprised that a number of posters think that he is trying to prove a point. Question is who he is adressing. What´s going on behind the scenes?

(12-02-2022, 01:32 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Then play him at the "5." Or play him at the "4" if you figure out a way to do that. 

All I care about: Play your damn talent!

Watching the Mavs play Detroit last night was just another reminder of how little talent the Mavs have. SO LITTLE TALENT. And Wood is one of the only bright spots on that front.

Yes, on a team this in need of offensive creation, finding a way for a 6'10" guy who can shoot, handle the ball, create space for a wide variety of scoring attempts, post up, roll hard, make second passes out of the short roll, etc, etc, etc to fit in and contribute as much as possible is a necessity, not just a goal. 

Right there with you.

(12-02-2022, 01:32 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Then play him at the "5." Or play him at the "4" if you figure out a way to do that. 

All I care about: Play your damn talent!

Watching the Mavs play Detroit last night was just another reminder of how little talent the Mavs have. SO LITTLE TALENT. And Wood is one of the only bright spots on that front.

I agree that you cater to your dominant talent. But I disagree that Wood is that guy. The Mavs' challenge is figuring out HOW to use him in a way where his strengths are going to reliably help the team more than his flaws will hurt them, and in a 5-on-5 game with team dynamics, that's not as simplistic as you keep trying to make it.

(12-02-2022, 01:52 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that you cater to your dominant talent. But I disagree that Wood is that guy. The Mavs' challenge is figuring out HOW to use him in a way where his strengths are going to reliably help the team more than his flaws will hurt them, and in a 5-on-5 game with team dynamics, that's not as simplistic as you keep trying to make it.

Yes. You are correct, obviously. 

BUT, to Kamm's point, this team really needs to make him work, imo. If we were talking about a team that's working, a well-oiled machine, I'd be fine with the whole "he's you're chance, take it or leave it" approach. But it's hard not to view Wood and some of the things he can clearly do as lifelines to a team desperate for offensive talent.

(12-02-2022, 01:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to Kidd´s post game interviews he likes to single out Wood. Not suprised that a number of posters think that he is trying to prove a point. Question is who he is adressing. What´s going on behind the scenes?

Kidd answers what he's asked, so when the questions focus on Wood to an higher degree, so do his replies. And at times, with that being the ongoing pattern, he's going to offer Wood-related commentary in anticipation of the questions. It's not any more mysterious than that.

(12-02-2022, 01:58 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Kidd answers what he's asked, so when the questions focus on Wood to an higher degree, so do his replies. And at times, with that being the ongoing pattern, he's going to offer Wood-related commentary in anticipation of the questions. It's not any more mysterious than that.

I understand that but there's also subtle jabs that are pretty obvious and not really solicited.  The comments about the 3rd quarter in the Boston game come to mind.

(12-02-2022, 01:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. You are correct, obviously. 

BUT, to Kamm's point, this team really needs to make him work, imo. If we were talking about a team that's working, a well-oiled machine, I'd be fine with the whole "he's you're chance, take it or leave it" approach. But it's hard not to view Wood and some of the things he can clearly do as lifelines to a team desperate for offensive talent.

I think fans are desperate for Wood to be that guy.  He's shown flashes.  He's had horrible outings.  He's bounced around the league for a reason and was a very cheap rental for the MBT to acquire.

(12-02-2022, 02:03 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]He's had horrible outings.

Honestly not any more horrible than some of the guys who have been part of this team for YEARS. All players will have some ups and downs, especially as they acclimate to a new system.

(12-02-2022, 02:03 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I think fans are desperate for Wood to be that guy.  He's shown flashes.  He's had horrible outings.  He's bounced around the league for a reason and was a very cheap rental for the MBT to acquire.

Oh, for sure we (fans) are. But, the team should be, too. 

If he's not, then they wasted another summer and another first round pick. That's much, MUCH worse than hoping (foolishly, maybe) to make him work here.

(12-02-2022, 02:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]wasted another summer and another first round pick

(12-02-2022, 02:08 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly not any more horrible than some of the guys who have been part of this team for YEARS. All players will have some ups and downs, especially as they acclimate to a new system.

Agree with the sentiment but I think a lot of people here think he is the savior and can turn this team around.  I don't see it, no matter how great he plays.  I thought our ceiling was probably to be as good as, yet different, than our team last year with JB and I just don't see that now.  

I'd also be a little terrified to invest long term money in Wood, especially if Kidd is part of our future.  I'd happily take him at his current number without Kidd, but giving him more money and keeping him with Kidd just seems like a THJ situation all over again.

If I'm the GM, I'm having Kidd invest more minutes into Green and some minutes into Hardy.  Everyone is on the table except Luka.

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(12-02-2022, 02:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, for sure we (fans) are. But, the team should be, too. 

If he's not, then they wasted another summer and another first round pick. That's much, MUCH worse than hoping (foolishly, maybe) to make him work here.

Summer?  Sure.  Giving 3 years to McGee was a mistake.  First round pick?  Not really.  You paid a fair value to dump contracts (sins of the previous MBT) and somehow managed to get Wood in the deal.  That's not working out but it's hard to complain about what they paid for him considering the contract dumps.   If Wood was always at his best, there is no way you'd pay so little for him when guys like RoCo went for 2x FRPs.  Not to mention that the MBT got their guy in Hardy.