(02-07-2023, 02:48 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]There are other factors to consider as well. Remember Carlisle used to say Powell brings a "level of physicality" and "disposition" that this team needs? Portis brings some of that to the Bucks. He's not a great defender but he's a little nasty and seems like a tireless worker.
Wood seems more of a fun-loving guy; a free spirit with star talent, but a laugh-and-giggle on the bench work ethic.
Keep in mind this team is 7-15 and the worst defensive team in the league when Wood plays 28+ minutes.
Agreed. Portis and Wood are very different players.
I've accepted Wood will be gone. It is what it is at this point.
(02-07-2023, 02:48 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Keep in mind this team is 7-15 and the worst defensive team in the league when Wood plays 28+ minutes.
Not a fan of stats like that. Completely ignores context. In this case, Wood started getting big minutes right around the time Maxi went down. That timeframe also included Green and Dorian going down. Not surprising that our record and defense look like crap when our top three rotational defenders were out.
1. Wood seems to really want to be here. All the players around the league really like Kyrie. There’s a chance Wood tells his agent to sign the offer the mavs sent. Pre-Kyrie i don’t think this was on the table. We have more leverage now. Something special is going on and i don’t think Wood wants to miss out
2. Assuming he doesn’t sign, there’s a scenario where i would be fine with just letting him walk. Pre-Kyrie this was absolutely out of the realm of possibilities. But now there could still be the most value in keeping him for this year’s championship run to fill a role. Need to max out out for THIS year in all the little ways
3. Most likely option is trade. I would think a straight offer we could get maybe an expiring non-factor and two 2nds. It would be better to get creative and send him out in a 3 team deal. Something bigger with more players. Wood for Covington and Wood for Wiseman are both options without picks that i like
It will be interesting to see how we play this.
https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...81282?s=20&t=A009uCTa0c4QPahTWRjT3w
Uh, Wood starting to post some cryptic messages on Instagram...
Deservin what he got as in he's signing his extension? Or he's trying to get traded to somewhere that'll give him some money?
I wouldn't really mind losing Wood thru FA.
I just don't want him traded and get the likes of Covington/Crowder.
I rather see him help the Mavs with Kyrie THIS SEASON, and worry about the offseason later.
IMHo, Mavs have a shot at winning it all with Wood than the likes of Crowder/Covington.
The Mavs better take that shot.
(02-08-2023, 01:45 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't really mind losing Wood thru FA.
I just don't want him traded and get the likes of Covington/Crowder.
I rather see him help the Mavs with Kyrie THIS SEASON, and worry about the offseason later.
IMHo, Mavs have a shot at winning it all with Wood than the likes of Crowder/Covington.
The Mavs better take that shot.
If the Mavs lose both Kyrie and Wood, this roster would be abominably thin. The FA market this off season is garbage, it's the following years FA market that's really good.
Completely disagree the Mavs have any shot whatsoever with the team as currently constructed. I don't think they even get out of the second round. The only shot they have is making another significant trade for a high level defender. An OG type is obviously ideal. Which would take Green and a first minimum. Maaaybe, they could with a PJ Washington who is a legit elite defender in the DFS mold, but better and younger.
IMO you can beat Jokic by letting him score as much as he wants as long as your perimeter defense is good enough to stop everyone else. People are obsessed with a big to stop the Jokic/Embiid types, but I think you can beat them as long as you can cover the perimeter. Currently we can't do either. We currently have no truly versatile POA defender, Green can only do it on 1-3, he just isn't big enough for any other position. OG and Washington, like DFS, can guard 1-3, 4's and even some small 5's but are even better defensively. Even then it's an uphill battle just to get out of the west IMO. Would need a lot of things to go right.
(02-08-2023, 04:51 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]If the Mavs lose both Kyrie and Wood, this roster would be abominably thin. The FA market this off season is garbage, it's the following years FA market that's really good.
Completely disagree the Mavs have any shot whatsoever with the team as currently constructed. I don't think they even get out of the second round. The only shot they have is making another significant trade for a high level defender. An OG type is obviously ideal. Which would take Green and a first minimum. Maaaybe, they could with a PJ Washington who is a legit elite defender in the DFS mold, but better and younger.
Well, if Wood is traded for Covington/Crowder and Kyrie leaves, it's still the same. The roster would still be incredibly thin. Crowder wouldn't make any difference. They'd be in a hole regardless if Kyrie leaves.
For the shot at a championship, I'm not saying these guys would get to the WCF by virtue of having Luka-Kyrie-Wood, no, it's not automatic. But having Wood instead of Covington increases their chances. The only elite in the West is Denver, everybody else is beatable.
(02-08-2023, 04:51 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]Maaaybe, they could with a PJ Washington who is a legit elite defender
PJ Washington is not an elite defender. Some might even claim, he is a bad defender
(02-08-2023, 07:23 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]PJ Washington is not an elite defender. Some might even claim, he is a bad defender
When it comes to bigger (combo Fs and PF's in size) wings - players who can play in space and guard the perimeter, and maybe even protect the rim at times - who ARE some of the ones who are elite? How do we know?
And are any of them reasonably available this week?
(02-08-2023, 07:49 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]When it comes to bigger (combo Fs and PF's in size) wings - players who can play in space and guard the perimeter, and maybe even protect the rim at times - who ARE some of the ones who are elite? How do we know?
And are any of them reasonably available this week?
Also, who are the some? I’m not claiming he’s elite, I think he’s a Maxi clone in a DFS body.
PJ Washington is the perfect type of player for this roster.
(02-08-2023, 07:49 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]When it comes to bigger (combo Fs and PF's in size) wings - players who can play in space and guard the perimeter, and maybe even protect the rim at times - who ARE some of the ones who are elite? How do we know?
And are any of them reasonably available this week?
I replied to a claim that he is an elite defender, nothing more. I like him and have always mentioned him as possibility. I didn't watch him a lot, but one of the national writers (don't remeber who) said he is a bad defender and Charlotte defensive on/off would seem to confirm that statement.
Defensively oriented big wings who might be available this TDL are RoCo, Morris, Vanderbilt, Crowder, Martin, Tate, Kenrich Williams. None of them is worth an unprotected FRP, so it is all about the other pieces in the deal. For example, McGee for Tate and Martin might be worth considering. THJ for Vando and Beasley might be worth considering. Wood for RoCo or Morris straight up makes sense if we believe in small ball. I don't really see Crowder or Williams trade for us.
One unprotected pick will also not net us a star. I wonder what 2 can do, assuming we can lift protections from NY pick. My pipedream would be Jerami Grant (didn't sign extension yet) or Keldon Johnson (not a big wing, but he would fit very nicely imho).
(02-08-2023, 08:13 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I replied to a claim that he is an elite defender, nothing more. I like him and have always mentioned him as possibility. I didn't watch him a lot, but one of the national writers (don't remeber who) said he is a bad defender and Charlotte defensive on/off would seem to confirm that statement.
Defensively oriented big wings who might be available this TDL are RoCo, Morris, Vanderbilt, Crowder, Martin, Tate, Kenrich Williams. None of them is worth an unprotected FRP, so it is all about the other pieces in the deal. For example, McGee for Tate and Martin might be worth considering. THJ for Vando and Beasley might be worth considering. Wood for RoCo or Morris straight up makes sense if we believe in small ball. I don't really see Crowder or Williams trade for us.
One unprotected pick will also not net us a star. I wonder what 2 can do, assuming we can lift protections from NY pick. My pipedream would be Jerami Grant (didn't sign extension yet) or Keldon Johnson (not a big wing, but he would fit very nicely imho).
Thanks for the reply. I would be interested in what objective info we have that says PJ is the wrong guy - a media guy said it, I dunno, some of them have shallow sketch opinions with little basis - or that any of the others mentioned are the right one.
I don't care about PJ. If he's not the right guy, so be it. I'm just asking "If not him, why not? And then who?" and what criteria we have to make that list reliable.
I do think that "good defender" by itself is probably not enough -- it's gonna require some sort of ability to also contribute on offense, so it's not easy for an opponent to simply ignore that player on the offensive end and have an extra defender to double Luka or Kyrie with impunity. Especially in playoffs. The in-depth same-opponent game-planning there punishes a team playing a player like that.
(02-08-2023, 08:43 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I do think that "good defender" by itself is probably not enough -- it's gonna require some sort of ability to also contribute on offense, so it's not easy for an opponent to simply ignore that player on the offensive end and have an extra defender to double Luka or Kyrie with impunity. Especially in playoffs. The in-depth same-opponent game-planning there punishes a team playing a player like that.
I think all of the names provided have some sort of offensive quality.
(02-08-2023, 08:43 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I would be interested in what objective info we have that says PJ is the wrong guy
I didn't say he is the wrong guy... I said he is not elite defender and provided two sources (one informed opinion and one stat) for that claim. You want more sources either pro or contra, go find them
(02-08-2023, 08:43 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]what criteria we have to make that list reliable
All of the names from my list are considered as good defenders
(02-08-2023, 04:51 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]If the Mavs lose both Kyrie and Wood, this roster would be abominably thin. The FA market this off season is garbage, it's the following years FA market that's really good.
Completely disagree the Mavs have any shot whatsoever with the team as currently constructed. I don't think they even get out of the second round. The only shot they have is making another significant trade for a high level defender. An OG type is obviously ideal. Which would take Green and a first minimum. Maaaybe, they could with a PJ Washington who is a legit elite defender in the DFS mold, but better and younger.
IMO you can beat Jokic by letting him score as much as he wants as long as your perimeter defense is good enough to stop everyone else. People are obsessed with a big to stop the Jokic/Embiid types, but I think you can beat them as long as you can cover the perimeter. Currently we can't do either. We currently have no truly versatile POA defender, Green can only do it on 1-3, he just isn't big enough for any other position. OG and Washington, like DFS, can guard 1-3, 4's and even some small 5's but are even better defensively. Even then it's an uphill battle just to get out of the west IMO. Would need a lot of things to go right.
I need to step back a moment and breathe in the contempt contained in the bolded for the offensive combination of Luka and Kyrie ("Lukyrie hate detected"). We aren't talking about the Bron-Wade/Durant-Harden/et al. "pick your poison" situations. We're talking about juggernautic unstoppability in the fourth quarter. Then you throw in Green and Hardy. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs average 45 points in the fourth quarter in the playoffs. In other words, defense is gravy when the other team has no prayer of stopping you. I fear exactly one team in the West, and that's the team we play tonight, if they can string together the health and cohesion that has eluded them. As long as Luka and Kyrie are both healthy, I'd gladly put down a grand that no team in the West outside of the Clippers is beating us in a seven game series. The Celtics would give us problems in the Finals.
I think you can keep Wood even if you don't extend him. The question is how have the Mavs been communicating with him behind the scenes? It certainly feels like they are fine keeping him due to their offer. Years appears to be the issue and maybe Wood's agency wants higher $ that Dallas can't offer now. If we resign Kyrie, I would think the years for Wood becomes less important. So the question is, what does Dallas think his market value is this summer and are they fine playing at that price range? Even if they have to overpay? Are they fine at 18 million a year? 20 million a year? 22 million a year? And if they don't sign him now, if he is willing, does Wood go into FU mode this summer and sign with anyone but the Mavs even if the Mavs had a competitive offer? Those are the questions the Mavs need to have a good grasp on.
(02-08-2023, 05:11 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if Wood is traded for Covington/Crowder and Kyrie leaves, it's still the same. The roster would still be incredibly thin. Crowder wouldn't make any difference. They'd be in a hole regardless if Kyrie leaves.
For the shot at a championship, I'm not saying these guys would get to the WCF by virtue of having Luka-Kyrie-Wood, no, it's not automatic. But having Wood instead of Covington increases their chances. The only elite in the West is Denver, everybody else is beatable.
I guess I just value defense way way more than you do in the playoffs, which is fine, difference of opinion. I am as confident as you the combo will do amazing offensively. But in the playoffs, IMO even all time level offensive play simply does not overcome near league worst defense. I feel like historically there is plenty of evidence of that.
(02-08-2023, 07:23 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]PJ Washington is not an elite defender. Some might even claim, he is a bad defender
I haven't seen him that much but I also read this article which says completely different about his defense, including quoting impressive defensive metrics backing it up. Scroll down a bit to the defensive impact headline.
PJ Washington is an Essential Piece of the Hornets' Future - Sports Illustrated Charlotte Hornets News, Analysis and More
I also think if you are the sole high level defender on a horrible defensive team, it can suppress your defensive impact. Which I guess you could say would be the case coming here, but it's possible we are underperforming at least a little bit, with Maxi still out and given how good we were last season. We need that POA defender particularly who can guard bigger wings/smaller bigs, which neither Josh or Reggie can IMO. Maxi is much better in more of a switchable, defensive QB role than a POA defender.
(02-08-2023, 09:16 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I need to step back a moment and breathe in the contempt contained in the bolded for the offensive combination of Luka and Kyrie ("Lukyrie hate detected"). We aren't talking about the Bron-Wade/Durant-Harden/et al. "pick your poison" situations. We're talking about juggernautic unstoppability in the fourth quarter. Then you throw in Green and Hardy. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mavs average 45 points in the fourth quarter in the playoffs. In other words, defense is gravy when the other team has no prayer of stopping you. I fear exactly one team in the West, and that's the team we play tonight, if they can string together the health and cohesion that has eluded them. As long as Luka and Kyrie are both healthy, I'd gladly put down a grand that no team in the West outside of the Clippers is beating us in a seven game series. The Celtics would give us problems in the Finals.
That's great, but I value defense WAY more in the playoffs than you seem to. IMO all time offense does not make up for bottom 6 defense in the playoffs. And historically I think that is pretty well proven. Show me the last time a super elite offense won anything with one of the worst rated defenses in the league.
Also Green and Hardy meaning anything significant in terms of offensive contributions is typical fan excitement over 1 game. The likelyhood we will even see anything like that again this season from them is low, they need to be doing that on a consistent basis minimum for them to be relevant as pieces that are gonna propel this team in any significant way offensively in the playoffs. Green will likely get the opportunity, but I feel like he will revert to his normal passiveness with the superstars on the court, and Hardy in particular I bet gets nothing but junk time with Kyrie and Luka on the floor and probably barely sees one minute in the playoffs. Not because I don't want him to get lots more game time, I def do, but because realistically that's what I think is gonna happen with Kidd.
(02-08-2023, 08:35 PM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]I haven't seen him that much but I also read this article which says completely different about his defense, including quoting impressive defensive metrics backing it up. Scroll down a bit to the defensive impact headline.
I haven't read the article, but I saw the disagreement earlier, and my take from personal observation is this:
PJ Washington can be a difference making player on
both ends of the court...when played at
center. I believe the truly false opinion about him that floats around here regularly is that he's multi-positional. For comparison sake, I'm not sure I feel like he's as versatile, offensively
or defensively, as Kleber.
Just my two cents.
(02-08-2023, 09:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I haven't read the article, but I saw the disagreement earlier, and my take from personal observation is this:
PJ Washington can be a difference making player on both ends of the court...when played at center. I believe the truly false opinion about him that floats around here regularly is that he's multi-positional. For comparison sake, I'm not sure I feel like he's as versatile, offensively or defensively, as Kleber.
Just my two cents.
So you want a 6’7” C who has been playing PF this whole time. I think that is fine for spurts during the game, not night in, night out.