MavsBoard

The Mavs have the 11th best defense since December 3rd, and that's during one of their tougher stretches, work-load wise. And, they were missing Green through almost all of it.

I honestly think people are freaking out needlessly about some of these perceived roster problems. Yes, if Lively goes down for a couple of weeks, things get tough. Show me a team that can easily withstand the loss of their starting center for an extended period.

They HAVE been experiencing injuries. More than their fair share, actually, and they're so damn deep they've hung in there!

(12-29-2023, 04:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So, I don't think you're crazy or wrong about any of the above or anything like that. It just seems like you're stuck in one way of thinking. Bigger isn't always better. Sometimes, it's the worst way you can play/think. 

Williams FACTUALLY can be good at the 5 - IN THE RIGHT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. There will come a time when what the team needs most from the 5 is running and shooting. That will happen, as it does each and every year in the modern NBA. There will be matchups where Lively is just too big and too slow (especially as he ages). 

I'm not suggesting that they play Williams at the 5 exclusively, or even nightly. I'm saying that what I think I  see is Kidd giving him some burn at that position to make sure he CAN play there when needed. He's learning the rotations, how to play differently in transition, etc, etc, etc. It's not just a matter of putting combos of guys out there - they have to have LEARNED the positions they're playing.

I get the distaste over what Williams has given so far, I really do. He isn't shooting well enough, he's trying to do WAY TOO MUCH with the ball on offense, and his defense, while highly effective at times, hasn't been consistent enough for him to be the defensive leader we thought he'd be. But, it's 30 games! I haven't given up. I still think he'll find his groove here, and might even get his starting job back.

I actually thought Williams could be a solid option as a backup center this offseason.   I just don't think we have the right pairing with him right now.  Maybe Maxi helps this, but that still leaves us two pretty limited front court players.   I just don't think we can go small (in length not girth) with Williams at the 5 with the rest of our team.   It is just too small and poor rebounding.    You would be inviting teams to live at the rim.    Maybe I am wrong, but until we get a guy who can pair with Williams, I would prefer to stay big most of the time at the 5.

(12-29-2023, 04:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs have the 11th best defense since December 3rd, and that's during one of their tougher stretches, work-load wise. And, they were missing Green through almost all of it.

I honestly think people are freaking out needlessly about some of these perceived roster problems. Yes, if Lively goes down for a couple of weeks, things get tough. Show me a team that can easily withstand the loss of their starting center for an extended period.

They HAVE been experiencing injuries. More than their fair share, actually, and they're so damn deep they've hung in there!

They are going through a rough spot now.   Maybe things continue downhill, but this years team is so much different from last years.   First, last year was a drag to watch. Even with a comparable record to this year.  I think we all felt that last year pace was not sustainable as they appeared to need to get a lot of bounces even to win against bad team.   Second, any resistance last year(injuries, rest, cold shooting, etc) put last years team DOA.    This team has at least kept their head above water through some bad injury luck.    I would still want to see a few things they do better that help around the edges (things they didn't do against the Cavs).   I just feel even with a really poor shooting night (when healthy) this team still has a shot.   Maybe not as good a shot as the top teams, but they least have more ways to find a way to win.

Let´s do some would you deals that seem realistic. I´m on the fence on most of these actually.

1. THJ for WCJ

2. Kleber/Curry for Isaac

3. THJ to Orlando
    PJ Washington to Dallas
    Harris + Houstan to Charlotte

4. Kleber/Curry for Bey/Mills

5. Holmes + 2025/2028 2nd round picks (Mavs owned) to Detroit
    J. Green + Bagley III to Charlotte
    PJ Washington to Dallas 

6. Josh Green for Jarace Walker

7. Holmes/Kleber/Powell/2027 1st top 10 protected for Ayton

(12-30-2023, 04:12 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Let´s do some would you deals that seem realistic. I´m on the fence on most of these actually.

1. THJ for WCJ - Depends on WCJ's health? would he be healthy for the year?

2. Kleber/Curry for Isaac - I'm leaning on retaining Maxi.

3. THJ to Orlando 
    PJ Washington to Dallas - Absolutely
    Harris + Houstan to Charlotte

4. Kleber/Curry for Bey/Mills - I'd go for this, but if it doesn't happen, that's okay too.

5. Holmes + 2025/2028 2nd round picks (Mavs owned) to Detroit
    J. Green + Bagley III to Charlotte
    PJ Washington to Dallas - No

6. Josh Green for Jarace Walker - No, Omax is enough as the PF in development

7. Holmes/Kleber/Powell/2027 1st top 10 protected for Ayton - No

Grant Williams at the 5 just isn't a good idea.
Too poor of a rebounder to be a 5.

Now if you can pair him with someone like PJ Washington, it could work, but in that pairing PJ becomes the C.
Same case with Maxi.

(12-30-2023, 04:12 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Let´s do some would you deals that seem realistic. I´m on the fence on most of these actually.

1. THJ for WCJ

2. Kleber/Curry for Isaac

3. THJ to Orlando
    PJ Washington to Dallas
    Harris + Houstan to Charlotte

4. Kleber/Curry for Bey/Mills

5. Holmes + 2025/2028 2nd round picks (Mavs owned) to Detroit
    J. Green + Bagley III to Charlotte
    PJ Washington to Dallas 

6. Josh Green for Jarace Walker

7. Holmes/Kleber/Powell/2027 1st top 10 protected for Ayton

1) Maybe

2) Noooooooo

3) Yes!

4) Maybe

5) Yes!!! (edit: didn't catch the Josh Green part the first time...still would, but remove the exclamation points)

6) I don't know enough about Walker, but I'm not really intrigued. 

7) I hate this idea with the passion of 10,000 suns.

(12-30-2023, 06:31 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]1. THJ for WCJ - Depends on WCJ's health? would he be healthy for the year?

2. Kleber/Curry for Isaac - I'm leaning on retaining Maxi.

3. THJ to Orlando 
    PJ Washington to Dallas - Absolutely
    Harris + Houstan to Charlotte

4. Kleber/Curry for Bey/Mills - I'd go for this, but if it doesn't happen, that's okay too.

5. Holmes + 2025/2028 2nd round picks (Mavs owned) to Detroit
    J. Green + Bagley III to Charlotte
    PJ Washington to Dallas - No

6. Josh Green for Jarace Walker - No, Omax is enough as the PF in development

7. Holmes/Kleber/Powell/2027 1st top 10 protected for Ayton - No

After my butt got sore on the fence, I have come down to....

1. I didn´t notice WCJ only makes 12M/year (thought it was 15-17). So that´s some real nice value. We´d definitely miss THJ´s scoring though and should have a short-term replacement strategy in place (Hayward?) or suffer the potential consequences this year. This would be a long-term strategy trade. WCJ just 24 years old.

2. Really tough one given that Isaac is a bit crazy and just as injury prone. He´s also an eternally expiring contract unlike Maxi. If Maxi is shot to pieces, you are never getting rid of that deal. I´d probably lean toward yes for the flexibility reasons.

3. I´d do that trade, cause I´m actually a lot more optimistic about the wing defense than most here. I don´t see it as a top priority anymore, unless you get a two-way borderline All-Star, which we cannot afford. I think minimum guys like Bonga or Bruno from Europe, in addition to Jones, Exum and Green would make us a viable perimeter defensive team. I think the rim protection and rebounding are much greater problems. Overall this is probably a little bit of a 1 on 1 (small for big) swap, but you got younger and Washington is cost-controlled longer.

4. Bey is a safe play and you get rid of Kleber´s contract.

5. I´d do it. I´m losing my patience with Green and keeping THJ as a scoring threat is worth the 2nd round picks.

Combination of trades 4+5 would probably be the best outcome for this season:

Doncic/Mills/Hardy
Irving/Bey/Lawson
Exum/THJ/X
DJJ/Williams/O-Max
Lively/Washington/Powell

This looks so good on paper, that I feel like I cheated during the trades.

6. I honestly forgot about O-Max, because of my Josh "2pts again" Green PTSD, therefore suggested this. Now it´s a no, unless Carlisle has another veteran-gasm, and does Kleber/Powell for Walker/Nwora.

7. I´d probably do this, cause it only adds +5/+6/+20 to the cap situation overall. Plus Mark has a new sugar mommy that can pay for this now. It´s unquestionably a high risk - high reward type of deal, because of the minutes with Lively and his overall demeanor. 

Look at his numbers against PHX this season: 17.5 PPG, 13.5 RPG, 3.5 APG, 16 FGA.
Rest of year:  13 PPG, 11 RPG, 1.5 APG, 11 FGA.

He clearly cannot be bothered in Portland and is still the 7th best rebounder in the league, while Kyrie Irving is currently the 3rd best rebounder in our regular roation. It´s a huge upgrade on paper.

(12-30-2023, 04:12 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Let´s do some would you deals that seem realistic. I´m on the fence on most of these actually.

1. THJ for WCJ

2. Kleber/Curry for Isaac

3. THJ to Orlando
    PJ Washington to Dallas
    Harris + Houstan to Charlotte

4. Kleber/Curry for Bey/Mills

5. Holmes + 2025/2028 2nd round picks (Mavs owned) to Detroit
    J. Green + Bagley III to Charlotte
    PJ Washington to Dallas 

6. Josh Green for Jarace Walker

7. Holmes/Kleber/Powell/2027 1st top 10 protected for Ayton

Well thought ideas. My response:
1. No, not interested in spending assets for starting level centers. THJ expiring is crucial for the big wing trade
2. Haven't seen Isaac play. Interesting from summer flexibility perspective
3. Similar to 1. I don't think Washington makes us way better, but greatly decreases our flexibility. Also not sure Charlotte would have any interest
4. Doesn't do much for me. Not interested in either Bey or Mills. Cost saving move as we get out from Maxi contract
5. Same as three and again not sure Charlotte would be interested.
6. I don't think Indy would trade a top 10 pick for someone like Josh Green. Other than that, I would do it. Although Omax becomes redundant in this case.
7. Not interested in starting level centers

(12-29-2023, 04:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So, I don't think you're crazy or wrong about any of the above or anything like that. It just seems like you're stuck in one way of thinking. Bigger isn't always better. Sometimes, it's the worst way you can play/think. 

Williams FACTUALLY can be good at the 5 - IN THE RIGHT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. There will come a time when what the team needs most from the 5 is running and shooting. That will happen, as it does each and every year in the modern NBA. There will be matchups where Lively is just too big and too slow (especially as he ages). 

I'm not suggesting that they play Williams at the 5 exclusively, or even nightly. I'm saying that what I think I  see is Kidd giving him some burn at that position to make sure he CAN play there when needed. He's learning the rotations, how to play differently in transition, etc, etc, etc. It's not just a matter of putting combos of guys out there - they have to have LEARNED the positions they're playing.

I get the distaste over what Williams has given so far, I really do. He isn't shooting well enough, he's trying to do WAY TOO MUCH with the ball on offense, and his defense, while highly effective at times, hasn't been consistent enough for him to be the defensive leader we thought he'd be. But, it's 30 games! I haven't given up. I still think he'll find his groove here, and might even get his starting job back.

Lively will be able to stay on the court as long as the Mavs have four guys with him who can shoot at least like an average NBA player. Defensively, he’s far more dominant, agile and faster than Williams. He’ll never be too slow defensively. He’s matchup proof on that side of the floor. If anything, it’s power players who’ll be most difficult for him. Lively’s role has nothing to do with how Williams is being used other than the Mavs just trying to find 20 decently played center minutes for when he isn’t in the game (we probably agree on that part).

(12-30-2023, 11:37 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]Lively will be able to stay on the court as long as the Mavs have four guys with him who can shoot at least like an average NBA player. Defensively, he’s far more dominant, agile and faster than Williams. He’ll never be too slow defensively. He’s matchup proof on that side of the floor. If anything, it’s power players who’ll be most difficult for him. Lively’s role has nothing to do with how Williams is being used other than the Mavs just trying to find 20 decently played center minutes for when he isn’t in the game (we probably agree on that part).

Man, you're a lot more sure about this than I am. 

I'm a huge fan of what Lively has brought to the table, but it has all been pretty simple. If there's some evidence that he can match up on the perimeter against a ball-handler, 1-on-1, I haven't seen it. I do think his athletic profile suggests he'll have a chance to develop some skills like that, but..."he'll never be too slow, defensively?" I just don't know how you can make that claim. He might be too slow NOW to do some of what's in my head as we talk about this. 

I hope this isn't coming across as a lack of support for Lively. I love that he's here! I just don't think we should be surprised if he gets played of the floor in the playoffs (IF), because he's a rookie, and because players his size just have a tough time in today's game. If/when that happens, it won't be a Poetl or an Ayton the Mavs will need to turn to for help. It will be a Kleber or a Williams (a version of that type who knows their role here and is ready to play it well).

I am not sure on any big trades now. I would like to see this team healthy to get a better idea of their upside. I think this team probably falls in between 5 and 9 in the West. I good move may move them in the top 4. I am just not sure if that move is available now. I would say the rest of the season are really important to several guys. Grant Williams, Josh Green, Jaden Hardy stand out to me.

One more thing, I saw a tweet that Cato said on a podcast the Mavs thought Kyrie wouldn't be out this long. His availability was always a huge question mark. Not all the other stuff that made him miss games, but he tends to have a lot of injuries. Compared to Jalen who is always available, Kyrie misses games. I just have a fear that eventually this team will be really good and Kyrie will then get hurt and miss 12 games. For that reason, I think it is really important to have Kyrie insurance for when he misses games. The alternative can't be that we need Luka to play 43 minutes a night.

(12-29-2023, 04:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs have the 11th best defense since December 3rd, and that's during one of their tougher stretches, work-load wise. And, they were missing Green through almost all of it.

I honestly think people are freaking out needlessly about some of these perceived roster problems. Yes, if Lively goes down for a couple of weeks, things get tough. Show me a team that can easily withstand the loss of their starting center for an extended period.

They HAVE been experiencing injuries. More than their fair share, actually, and they're so damn deep they've hung in there!

Mavs are 17-9 when Lively plays, 1-5 when he doesn't. If Lively goes down for any significant time, the Mavs are cooked. We are desperate for a rim rolling, rebounding, defending big off the bench. Doesn't even have to be an elite one, just one that lets the Mavs continue to play the way they want when Lively isn't in the game.

Perhaps its still on the table to get a starter like Capela and move Lively to the bench. Mavs would have arguably the best center rotation in the league

(12-30-2023, 01:22 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps its still on the table to get a starter like Capela and move Lively to the bench. Mavs would have arguably the best center rotation in the league

I think you're STILL sleeping on Lively, my friend. 

In the event of a Capela trade, I flatly do not believe he pushes Lively to the bench. I think the kid's chances of losing his starting job are in the rear-view mirror. 

Why, then, would they trade for someone at Capela's salary to play spot minutes? I totally agree it would be nice to have him if Lively was injured. But, it would also be nice to have another Luka lying around. If he gets hurt, the team is screwed even worse! It's just not a situation wherein everything is going to be perfect.

Brad Townsend (@townbrad)
Kidd says there is hope that Irving will play at Utah on Monday, but if not, soon after, when Mavs return home.

Bill Simmons had Dallas at 11 in his latest rankings in his podcast. He had some nice things to say about Luka on how Luka could average 36, 9 and 9. I would be surprised if Luka averaged 36. He certainly could. I hope we get to the point where he doesn't need to.

Anyway, they were talking about Rookies (Chet excluded). He said Wemby was one, Miller 2, Jacques 3 and said Wallace was 4. Then he said after that you could have a lot of debate. Wallace has been very good right? I haven't seen much but I could argue the value Lively has made to his team is more important. Thoughts? I typically don't get worked up on rankings, so no big deal if Lively is 3rd or 7th, but just was a little surprised.

(01-01-2024, 11:45 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Bill Simmons had Dallas at 11 in his latest rankings in his podcast.  He had some nice things to say about Luka on how Luka could average 36, 9 and 9.  I would be surprised if Luka averaged 36.  He certainly could.  I hope we get to the point where he doesn't need to.

Anyway, they were talking about Rookies (Chet excluded).  He said Wemby was one, Miller 2, Jacques 3 and said Wallace was 4.  Then he said after that you could have a lot of debate.  Wallace has been very good right?  I haven't seen much but I could argue the value Lively has made to his team is more important.  Thoughts?  I typically don't get worked up on rankings, so no big deal if Lively is 3rd or 7th, but just was a little surprised.

Dallas is the team who fired Haralabob and then traded for Kyrie Irving. I'm not normally dismissive of the national media like some people are, but right now I think it's safe to say Simmons isn't going to see Dallas with much objectivity. 

I agree that Lively should be higher, for sure, and I'm starting to cautiously wonder if 11th might not be a little low for the team as a whole.

I have to admit a certain irritation at having one of the best players in the NBA for over 5 years, and yet we are still a team that only once in that time has had a team over 50 wins (2022). We now have better personnel, and another top tier player in Kyrie Irving, and still look weak next to maybe 5-10 other teams.

Several teams have made better strides and more moves in that window of time. We should be much better than the 2019 Dallas Mavericks - and we're not. I personally welcome some new management and am glad Cuban doesn't manage the money anymore. I hope the new owners demand results, because I'm not convinced Cuban does.

(01-02-2024, 09:30 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I have to admit a certain irritation at having one of the best players in the NBA for over 5 years, and yet we are still a team that only once in that time has had a team over 50 wins (2022). We now have better personnel, and another top tier player in Kyrie Irving, and still look weak next to maybe 5-10 other teams.

Several teams have made better strides and more moves in that window of time. We should be much better than the 2019 Dallas Mavericks - and we're not. I personally welcome some new management and am glad Cuban doesn't manage the money anymore. I hope the new owners demand results, because I'm not convinced Cuban does.

Mavs put themself in a position where they have to overcome terrible decisions of the past. Still down one pick from the KP trade. Lost Brunson. Gave up another pick to get Kyrie as his replacement. It's the same pattern. Mistake. Followed by a desperate move to make up for the initial mistake.
Almost impressive that a team that wasted as many assets without any positive return is still somewhat competitive.

Has anyone looked at the January schedule?

I know that December looked like a tough month. This is worse, IMHO. Two games against Portland (if we lose either of those games, regardless of margin, it's objectively time to whip out the Team Tank thread), followed by 13 games of which the closest opponents to cupcakes are Ja-Memphis, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Orlando. It's a murderers' row.

Pretty clear the team will finish the month sub-.500. Doesn't the KP pick turn into 2025 seconds if it doesn't convey this year? What a tough position for Nico and Lindsay. I understand that Luka can best preserve his integrity and bank account by remaining a Mav, but I start to sweat seriously about this if we don't make the playoffs this year. I believe that Lively and OMax will be near-All-Star caliber starters by year three for both of them (well, maybe year four for OMax), but that's quite a while to wait. The Kyrie timeline ship may have sailed. A panic trade that clutters cap could further ruin future prospects. Glad I'm not the GM. So unfortunate with how well they did with Lively and Exum (and DJJ, while not starting caliber, should be a good rotation piece for them) this past offseason. Green and GWill look like minor mistakes.

At this point, I think the best thing to salvage the season is to fire Kidd as coach ASAP. Not sure how long it takes the FO to see that, though.