(09-25-2023, 04:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You had me until this, which I had to do a double-take to realize that it wasn't tongue-in-cheek. Hopefully Dwight is a bright enough bulb to realize he isn't being paid minimum wage to be a starter, and that that was decided before contract negotiations even began.
If Dwight starts more than 10 total games this year, and that only in the event of injuries, that means we're tanking, and should be looking into Luka's trade market. Period.
Dwight's a proven NBA rotation player and is now on a really favorable contract.
Lively has yet to play an NBA minute.
I think Lively can become an excellent starting center for us eventually. I think he was a great draft pick and I look forward to watching him improve with time and experience. However, rookie centers rarely make a positive impact. Players like Bam Adebayo, Nic Claxton and Sabonis either were net negatives or barely played as rookies. It is very unlikely that Derrick Lively will be as effective as Dwight Powell this coming season. Kidd suggesting that Lively has a chance of starting this season creates unrealistic expectations. It's foolish.
If Lively ends up surprising and plays well as the season progresses, that would be amazing. It's pretty unlikely however.
(09-25-2023, 08:18 PM)WildArkieBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Dwight is a dedicated, serviceable journeyman
He's not a journeyman, actually. I think he's the longest tenured Maverick, yeah? He's probably on his way to a front office job when he retires.
Dwight is awe-right... at this price. I just don't want him to log big minutes, and certainly not starter minutes. The assumption has to be that Holmes provides nothing and Lively needs to learn and grow given how he looked in the summer league (RAW). As many have pointed out, I think OMax gets the bigger minutes and Lively is in development mode.
Soooo... unless we trade for a C, Powell will have a huge role.
(09-25-2023, 04:45 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]In other Mavs news, I'm almost done with my book - The Dwight Powell Psyop: How a Little Hustle Tricked 69% of Mavs Fans
Which hustle is that? The "he's a great locker room guy" one? Or the "he's a pillar of the community" one?
The latter hustle got Tobias Harris a max contract in Philly too, lol.
(09-25-2023, 04:28 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Once again, an issue of veteran player brightness or the lack thereof. I hope to goodness that Nico and co. sat down with Luka prior to the draft and said, "Look, we royally effed up your first few years here, and we have to do a bit of a reset. Our asset cupboard is so bare that any band-aid moves won't really lead to us winning and will end up with you walking and no future to look forward to either. We're going youth movement here. We beg of you, trust us to draft the young talent we need. We'll get you and Kai's buddy Grant Williams, and try to be opportunistic otherwise. Our success level this year is going to have a lot to do with how you and Kai can mesh together as the immensely talented professionals that you are, and on how well Josh, Jaden, and our rookies perform. Whether or not that works, we will not make any band-aid panic trades that mortgage the future. Whether this year works or not, we will be well-positioned next year with assets to make a trade that is far more than just a band-aid. This is the way. This is the only correct way to move forward we have left ourselves. But we love you, we know you're loyal to our fans and our club, and we are making the solitarily-available right decision to ensure a successful future for you in Dallas. It may or may not work this year, but in any event, please recognize that this is the only way that's going to avoid a Lebron-first Cleveland run situation."
If Luka is a bright guy, he sees that and doesn't need them to tell him this. But it would have still been good player relations anyway.
Based on this your only hope would be that Luka values loyalty to Dallas more than winning. Because, you are really not offering him much more than "we really, really, really will not screw up this time. Scouts honour".
(09-25-2023, 09:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He's not a journeyman, actually. I think he's the longest tenured Maverick, yeah? He's probably on his way to a front office job when he retires.
I agree about the front office job. I’ve been saying that for years. Mr. Stanford is a good and smart guy who also is a team first player. I’m glad he got good money and a very long term job if he doesn’t take a far better high level job.
I’m also glad we are finally in the process of replacing him as our center.
So when does training camp start? Streamed scrimmage?
(09-26-2023, 07:37 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]So when does training camp start? Streamed scrimmage?
Because they have the preseason games in Abu Dhabi, the Mavs can report to the team today and training camp starts tomorrow. No clue about streaming, but am interested in watching. Media day is on Friday which is different because of them having the extra couple days for training camp.
(09-25-2023, 07:30 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]You guys crack me up. Dwight lovers are a clear majority. I could be one if his pay aligned with his value (now it does) and he played the correct amount. (garbage time and injury depth)
Not the end of the world, just the end of the season.
As mentioned above, it does not make sense to hate on Dwight because the team can't get anybody better. And the idea that he is only good for garbage time and Injury depth is not supported by any metric you can find. He is a quality backup big with the added benefit of being a high character high motor guy that will do whatever the team asks.
So its the end of the season if he starts a couple of games? How many games did he start 2 years ago in this teams best run since the championship?
(09-26-2023, 10:02 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]As mentioned above, it does not make sense to hate on Dwight because the team can't get anybody better.
Can't get anybody better or has the front office just sucked for a long time? Fortunately, their are at least 2 players on our roster who will prove to be better than Dwight very quickly.
Quote:And the idea that he is only good for garbage time and Injury depth is not supported by any metric you can find.
Regular season stats mean almost nothing to me. We aren't the Kings. The goals need to bigger. We can't be massively gapped at C by every playoff team.
Brook Lopez, Robert Williams, Embiid, Jarret Allen, Mitchell Robinson, Claxton, Capela, Bam. Oh dear. Every single east playoff team (we have to beat one to win the title) would eat Dwight for breakfast.
So what do we have to go through to get to the final? JOKIC, Jaren Jackson, Sabonis, Ayton, Zubac, Looney, ANTHONY DAVIS, Gobert/KAT. Fortunately their are a couple of soft players on this list who we could get by against for a series. Fact still remains that eventually in a playoff run we will be massively outmatched. We've already been DESTROYED by Looney.
Quote:He is a quality backup big with the added benefit of being a high character high motor guy that will do whatever the team asks.
That's great. I hope he keeps that energy up and cheers hard on the bench!
Quote:So its the end of the season if he starts a couple of games? How many games did he start 2 years ago in this teams best run since the championship?
The Mavs were very fortunate to play FRAUDS and CHOKERS. Ayton - softer than baby poo. Booker and CP3 playing so bad they had to send out an apology letter. Gobert and Mitchell... they literally blew up their team after seeing their performance. Couple that with our second star coming online and we had a fun run. Instantly SMACKED by the Warriors. It's not good enough for me.
So we have established that we can NOT win with Dwight as our starting C. The good news is, you guys are going to be shocked by Lively and Holmes. Can we win with Lively as our starting C? Probably not, but a full season of Lively will prove to be better than wasting time with Dwight. The run can happen as soon as next season.
Ya, we really have a hole at C. I'd like to get Eason/KPJ for Holmes, then have THJ/J.Green/27FRP to get a C who will still be valuable at the 2026 TDL.
I still like the deal surrrounding J.Allen to DAL, KAT to CLE.
(09-26-2023, 02:23 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: [ -> ]Reminds me a bit of Keith Grant.
He started with a smaller role and performed it faithfully and with diligence, and gained increased responsibility as a result.
Good for him!
Casey Smith has healed a whole lot of bodies around here but he has trained some good trainers under him as well. Good job and good luck.
(09-26-2023, 03:56 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Based on this your only hope would be that Luka values loyalty to Dallas more than winning. Because, you are really not offering him much more than "we really, really, really will not screw up this time. Scouts honour".
Look, I understand what your perspective is. Luka is well into his prime. He ought to be attempting to win every year, and so, by extension, should his team. But literally the whole world can see how badly the Mavs botched these first five years, up until this summer, leaving us with very little in the asset cupboard to get better.
The Mavs, this summer, have done the one right thing they could - re-stock the asset cupboard and our young talent, without squandering future assets on win-now bandaid moves that would possibly lead to a second round exit instead of a first round exit. I get that you don't agree - you believe that the Mavs ***must*** make another move because the roster looks shaky to you. I disagree with you, tooth and nail and to the last breath. The Mavs have very few assets right now, and if they panic their way into an omahen-satisfying move that doesn't actually help them win rings (it won't, guaranteed), they dig themselves back into the talent deficit while virtually guaranteeing Luka's departure. Whereas, the path they seem to be taking does two things that improve the future - 1) developing the young talent on the roster so that they can either develop trade value or grow into the guys who are actually qualified to be Luka's supporting cast, and 2) next summer, have expiring contracts, young talent, and three firsts to offer in trade for a player who will actually be the difference maker for Luka and co. As long as Powell doesn't start more than 10 games, we will make the playoffs this year, and probably get bounced in the first round because the rotation is so young. If Luka can see that the team is improving and trending upward, and that they have the assets to make a major power move, I don't think he leaves.
If an opportunistic trade comes up that can make the Mavs better this season, great! But Lively, OMax, Green, and the 27 are off the table (and Hardy also is for most). If some team wants to give us their treasure for our trash, wonderful. But mortgaging the future they're trying to rebuild for Luka is not the way to do it.
(09-25-2023, 09:57 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]Dwight is awe-right... at this price. I just don't want him to log big minutes, and certainly not starter minutes. The assumption has to be that Holmes provides nothing and Lively needs to learn and grow given how he looked in the summer league (RAW). As many have pointed out, I think OMax gets the bigger minutes and Lively is in development mode.
Soooo... unless we trade for a C, Powell will have a huge role.
I disagree with your take on 1) rookies in general, and 2) Lively in particular. I think the bottom line with Lively is that you're underestimating not so much his BBIQ as his all-around IQ. I think he's going to blow your mind with how fast he learns. I think he starts a fair number of games and averages 20 mpg this year, and the only way he "hurts the team" on the court is a little foul trouble that prevents his minutes from being higher. While an overall evaluation of his performance over the coming year would be subjective and non-quantifiable, I would gladly sig bet you that 1) Lively averages 20 mpg, 2) he starts at least 30 games, and 3) that the Mavs' record is better when he starts than when he doesn't.
(09-26-2023, 04:12 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree with your take on 1) rookies in general, and 2) Lively in particular. I think the bottom line with Lively is that you're underestimating not so much his BBIQ as his all-around IQ. I think he's going to blow your mind with how fast he learns. I think he starts a fair number of games and averages 20 mpg this year, and the only way he "hurts the team" on the court is a little foul trouble that prevents his minutes from being higher. While an overall evaluation of his performance over the coming year would be subjective and non-quantifiable, I would gladly sig bet you that 1) Lively averages 20 mpg, 2) he starts at least 30 games, and 3) that the Mavs' record is better when he starts than when he doesn't.
I was told the Mavs record when a player starts is meaningless. Especially when compared to the all mighty +/-.
(09-26-2023, 05:13 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I was told the Mavs record when a player starts is meaningless. Especially when compared to the all mighty +/-.
Mavs basically picked best on/off rating available in the draft. O-Max ranked 1st overall in all of college basketball. Lively 8th.
All mighty +/- might be the reason why they ended up on the Mavs roster.
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