(06-10-2022, 06:58 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]I know everyone looks great in highlights and so it is hard to predict who will be a difference maker at the next level. From the highlights I have watched, I like Dalen Terry much more than Kendall Brown if both are somehow available. Terry seems like someone who has the skills to develop into a real playmaker.
Totally agree. I have Dalen Terry just a notch above Kendall Brown in my prospect rankings. If I had the choice between the two I would choose Dalen.
RE: Jaden Hardy
So I looked at him again since the Mavs worked him out....ugh, I just do not like what I see.
1) TERRIBLE defender, both on-ball and off-ball.
2) Not a good athlete overall and poor lateral quickness.
3) Cannot finish at the rim.
4) Can generate jump shots for himself but makes a poor percentage.
5) His one strength is catch and shoot (40% from three) and free throws (88%).
He might find a niche in the NBA as a shooter, but I don't really like any other part of his game.
Quote:Daniels has an upcoming workout with the Kings (No. 4), and previously worked out for the Pistons (No. 5) and Spurs (No. 9), as Boyd relays.
Quote:Kansas wing Ochai Agbaji, the 16th overall prospect on ESPN’s board, has upcoming workouts with the Knicks (No. 11) and Hawks (No. 16). He previously worked out for the Thunder (No. 12), Cavaliers (No. 14) and Bulls (No. 18), according to Josh Robbins of The Athletic (Twitter link).
Quote:G League Ignite’s MarJon Beauchamp, another wing who ranks 23rd on ESPN’s board, has workouts scheduled with the Knicks, Pelicans (No. 8), Spurs (Nos. 9, 20 and 25), Hornets (Nos. 13 and 15) and Timberwolves (No. 19). He previously worked out for the Hawks, Bulls and Grizzlies (Nos. 22 and 29), tweets Robbins.
Quote:Notre Dame guard Blake Wesley worked out for the Hawks on Friday, Boyd reports (via Twitter). Wesley, who is No. 27 on ESPN’s board, had a previous workout with the Nuggets (No. 21).
The other thing to mention about workouts and players falling is, if there is a guy that falls like MPJ (maybe the wrong example but hopefully you get what I’m trying to say) who a team can look at video of him, but didn’t get a chance to work them out or interview with them, do you take the chance that his head is on right and the video tells the whole story?
(06-11-2022, 07:50 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]The other thing to mention about workouts and players falling is, if there is a guy that falls like MPJ (maybe the wrong example but hopefully you get what I’m trying to say) who a team can look at video of him, but didn’t get a chance to work them out or interview with them, do you take the chance that his head is on right and the video tells the whole story?
I have often wondered how much of a player's personality profile each NBA team has. They have to have some already since many of the players have established a work ethic and dedication in high school in college - and that information is likely measured to some extent. I'm also assuming there is probably some measuring of personalities that is largely private. Some of the information may be in medical records and will never reach the public eye ... like clinical depression.
The fan base will never see these personality profiles. I'm sure much of it is overlooked for basketball skill. I mean how much was really known about Zion for example before he was drafted. Even now, how do teams evaluate Kyrie Irving or Ben Simmons? Much of their behavior is now in the public record. You have to weigh talent with desire, and that's really subjective. And when it's public, the fan perception also counts for something. A lot of money is at stake. You have to believe the NBA scouts and FOs have a long sheet on each player.
(06-11-2022, 08:16 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I have often wondered how much of a player's personality profile each NBA team has. They have to have some already since many of the players have established a work ethic and dedication in high school in college - and that information is likely measured to some extent. I'm also assuming there is probably some measuring of personalities that is largely private. Some of the information may be in medical records and will never reach the public eye ... like clinical depression.
The fan base will never see these personality profiles. I'm sure much of it is overlooked for basketball skill. I mean how much was really known about Zion for example before he was drafted. Even now, how do teams evaluate Kyrie Irving or Ben Simmons? Much of their behavior is now in the public record. You have to weigh talent with desire.
Man, would a team really be able to trust the reports of work ethic and dedication from College and below coaches that have a vested interest in their players being drafted? Not so sure. Also, I can’t believe psychological evaluations being released is something that that profession would want to allow, in terms of getting evaluations from professionals other than who are paid by your team.
(06-11-2022, 08:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Man, would a team really be able to trust the reports of work ethic and dedication from College and below coaches that have a vested interest in their players being drafted? Not so sure. Also, I can’t believe psychological evaluations being released is something that that profession would want to allow, in terms of getting evaluations from professionals other than who are paid by your team.
Regardless of whether you trust them or not, the information will likely be there.
As for psych evaluations, they probably don't get passed around, I'm sure the NBA has rules. But think for a minute how many assistant coaches move around from team-to-team. You know they have to talk.
(06-11-2022, 08:48 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of whether you trust them or not, the information will likely be there.
As for psych evaluations, they probably don't get passed around, I'm sure the NBA has rules. But think for a minute how many assistant coaches move around from team-to-team. You know they have to talk.
It is an inexact science....especially when most of the prospects are so young. My big thing is there is no short cuts in scouting. In all honesty, our front office/scouts need to be engaged with the '24 class now. Going to camps. Going to the overseas camps, etc (I think pro scouts can go to the high school summer camps, but maybe not). Having a history with these kids gives you more data to make decisions. It is one of the reasons why I really like Givony and Schmitz (no longer with ESPN) at ESPN. They watch these kids during the season. In the summer they are at a lot of the Under 18 camps and travel to the overseas camps. It gives them much more visibility then all the youtube draft experts.
This isn't a not on analytics because if you do not have a strong analytic team, you are being left behind. But still, it still really bugs me that Bob V made our 2020 pick and probably never saw any of those prospects play in person. He probably had his analytics and that drove his decision. Just terrible. 2020 was a unique year though with the cancellation of the tournament and limited workouts. Still, it just feels like a Cuban special of looking for shortcuts. Hopefully that has changed, but my opinion won't change until I see it change. Cuban has screwed up way too much the last 12 years.
Hugo Besson - I really liked his dad in The Professional!
I know we have a roster crunch, but I am almost at the point if we don't pick a center at 26 that I will be a tad disappointed if we don't go after one of the centers in the second round. Even if it is a draft and stash or a two way contract. Just seems like there are 4 guys who are in the 30's to early 40's and 2-3 more who are late second or undrafted guys. With our need at center, it just seems like a smart gamble to go after one of these guys.
With that being said, I do like several middle second non center types as well.
(06-11-2022, 09:06 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Never heard of Bouyea. I looked at one site who had him at 97. Another had him in the 80's in rankings. His highlights look impressive. Just a reminder how good you need to be to get anywhere close to a draftable prospect.
Some of this stuff is for making decisions on players who might slip through the draft and be available to anyone.
One other note on workouts -- who works out for whom is highly determined by player/agent. Players expecting to be picked in the top 10, for example, wouldn't tend to want to bother with coming to Dallas or other teams drafting in the 20s. But some players have an overinflated estimation of where they will go, and they turn down invites they should have accepted.
I am really having trouble with my Kessler evaluation. I understand how the changed NBA makes him a more difficult fit, but still I think there is a market inefficiency for centers in the late first round/early second round. Especially if they can fit your style of play. Hearing Nico say the Mavs need better rebounding and rim protection every time he speaks is getting my attention too.
Even if Kessler is a Powell type player who can rebound and block shots better in a 20-25 minute per game player. Isn't there some value there by getting a low cost center on a rookie deal and then you can use your future assets either now or next year for that last big wing?
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/...7253975043
(06-11-2022, 09:44 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Some of this stuff is for making decisions on players who might slip through the draft and be available to anyone.
One other note on workouts -- who works out for whom is highly determined by player/agent. Players expecting to be picked in the top 10, for example, wouldn't tend to want to bother with coming to Dallas or other teams drafting in the 20s. But some players have an overinflated estimation of where they will go, and they turn down invites they should have accepted.
These are the types of guys that I generally like to pick though (of course general rules have exceptions). The guys with that much confidence in themselves but get picked by in general have that chip on their shoulder (similar to Bane, we’ve all seen his disdain for being picked after Josh Green) and make sure to prove the doubters wrong. I also think Isaiah Stewart felt this type of way.
It does make for a bit of holding your breath moment when you didn’t get to have that in-depth first hand look at them though.
(06-11-2022, 08:16 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]I have often wondered how much of a player's personality profile each NBA team has. They have to have some already since many of the players have established a work ethic and dedication in high school in college - and that information is likely measured to some extent. I'm also assuming there is probably some measuring of personalities that is largely private. Some of the information may be in medical records and will never reach the public eye ... like clinical depression.
The fan base will never see these personality profiles. I'm sure much of it is overlooked for basketball skill. I mean how much was really known about Zion for example before he was drafted. Even now, how do teams evaluate Kyrie Irving or Ben Simmons? Much of their behavior is now in the public record. You have to weigh talent with desire, and that's really subjective. And when it's public, the fan perception also counts for something. A lot of money is at stake. You have to believe the NBA scouts and FOs have a long sheet on each player.
I assume it is standard procedure for the teams to employ people that do nothing else, but dig through the personal life and personality of draft prospects to evaluate their character, on top of the personal interviews during the workouts. Part of being a scout is also having build such a network that you already get a general profile of a player by talking to your trusted sources.
Of course teams will certainly have different lenghts they go to. Judging by our history of not even having a draft board, it´s not hard to figure out why we suck so much at it.
I´m 100% convinced that most of the league knew that Lamar Odom was in a real bad place. Cuban didn´t know or didn´t care enough about the 1st round draft pick.
(06-11-2022, 09:46 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I am really having trouble with my Kessler evaluation
My question to you:
Do you like Kessler better than Koloko? If so, why?
My issues with Kessler:
1) Kessler has SMALL hands (8.5"), the 2nd smallest hands in the whole combine (!).
2) Kessler has a lot of body fat (14.7%), the 2nd most in the whole combine. I think this bodes poorly for his future outlook on avoiding lower body injuries (knees, ankles, and feet).
3) Kessler refused to do athletic testing...and would have tested poorly if he did IMO.
4) Kessler shot 59.6% on free throws which means the likelihood of him adding a three ball is very low (Koloko shot 73.5% by comparison).
I 100% agree with you there is a market inefficiency. I am 100% open to the Mavs getting a more traditional center in the draft, especially if all the good wing options are gone.
(06-11-2022, 09:46 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Even if Kessler is a Powell type player who can rebound and block shots better in a 20-25 minute per game player. Isn't there some value there by getting a low cost center on a rookie deal and then you can use your future assets either now or next year for that last big wing?
Yes, but what will the Mavs be trading for in free agency? If they have their eye on trading for a center, then maybe they will try and draft a wing. There's really no telling which way they will move. It will likely depend on what they will trying to pull off in the trade market.