(06-25-2021, 10:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, the world is collectively pretty upset about the Kidd thing. I wonder if that will blow over a bit, or if people will dig the argument up every couple of months.
Cannot really blame them. I rewatched Cuban´s ESPN interview. He basically told the entire world that he did not know what happened in his own organization. Not a great look but that was his excuse. This time he knows all the details. People can change and I am all for 2nd chances. Other franchises had no problem with him and players still like him. Still a sore spot for a lot of people (including me).
(06-25-2021, 10:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, the world is collectively pretty upset about the Kidd thing.
Not the world. Just a vocal subset of cynical fans and reporters who thrive on rehashing past controversy while allowing no room for personal growth. Players who know Kidd well like Dame & Dirk seem to be singing a very different tune.
(06-25-2021, 11:17 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Not the world. Just a vocal subset of cynical fans and reporters who thrive on rehashing past controversy while allowing no room for personal growth. Players who know Kidd well like Dame & Dirk seem to be singing a very different tune.
There are also people who are upset about Mark hiring someone with a history of domestic violence after cryiing in an interview and saying that he was going to change and change the organization. There are people upset about this that don't "thrive on rehashing past controversy," but just see a gross inconsistancy here.
I believe in redemption and second chances. But you can be upset even if you do believe in redemption and second chances. Some folks might believe that they've never seen sufficient contrition and change in JKidd to justify the hire.
I'm not even saying I think this way. I'm just admitting that it's a legit conversation.
(06-25-2021, 11:17 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Not the world. Just a vocal subset of cynical fans and reporters who thrive on rehashing past controversy while allowing no room for personal growth. Players who know Kidd well like Dame & Dirk seem to be singing a very different tune.
Oh, for sure. Lots of different people have lots of different opinions.
There's just a lot more of this condemnation than I expected (thought I suppose I should have expected it).
I guess it's just easier for some of us (myself included) to compartmentalize our opinions of someone's professional life from our opinions of their personal life.
Also, while I, personally, am not that emotionally invested in the idea that someone involved in committing acts of domestic violence shouldn't be given more chances, I don't know that it's reasonable to assume those who do feel that way must be "cynical." If your point is that we are becoming too one-dimensional and unforgiving as a society, then I whole-heartedly agree, but it's also not like the strong feelings people have with spousal abuse, drunk driving, etc, are totally baseless. Kidd
has done some pretty not so great things.
The off the court criticisms with Kidd are valid. But his record as a coach is no worse than than Monty Williams or Nate McMillan 6 months ago. These fan/media narratives about coaches are fickle and change with the wind (usually depending on the talent they're coaching at that particular time). Coach Bud was one the top coaches in the NBA, then an absolute loser who couldn't win playoffs and was a dead man walking, then a top coach again in the span of about 2 weeks and a Kyrie Irving twisted ankle. I'm listening to Ben Simmons go on and on this morning about what a great adjustment mastermind Ty Lue is all of a sudden. He's the same guy he was in Cleveland. He has great relationships with his players, keeps their morale up and he listens to the analytics department when the feed him him the adjustments and adjustments he should make. He didn't reinvent himself into some Xs and Os mastermind just because the Clippers are in the Finals at this moment. There are a lot of ways to win in the NBA as a coach.
(06-25-2021, 11:31 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]There are people upset about this that don't "thrive on rehashing past controversy," but just see a gross inconsistancy here.
Fair enough. That's a legit perspective. My point is simply that there are other perspectives as well and opinions on social media are not an accurate cross section of the real world.
What do you guys think about the fact that JKidd burned bridges with the Nets and Bucks? Has he shown to just be a bad dude? Honest question. I don't know the answer.
(06-25-2021, 11:42 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]These fan/media narratives about coaches are fickle and change with the wind (usually depending on the talent they're coaching at that particular time). Coach Bud was one the top coaches in the NBA, then an absolute loser who couldn't win playoffs and was a dead man walking, then a top coach again in the span of about 2 weeks and a Kyrie Irving twisted ankle.
Totally agree, and this can be applied to pretty much everything. Our opinions about everything change too rapidly for my taste these days.
(06-25-2021, 11:47 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]What do you guys think about the fact that JKidd burned bridges with the Nets and Bucks? Has he shown to just be a bad dude? Honest question. I don't know the answer.
Kidd's relationships with the organizations that have employed him have a long history of ending badly. And he's got a fair amount of low-character stuff in his background.
But no one is all bad or all good, after all.
(06-25-2021, 11:47 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]What do you guys think about the fact that JKidd burned bridges with the Nets and Bucks? Has he shown to just be a bad dude? Honest question. I don't know the answer.
His moral fiber should definitely be questioned, but the support system here (Dirk, Jet, and Cuban) makes me hopeful that whatever blowups Kidd had is his last jobs wont happen here
(06-25-2021, 11:58 AM)MangaAfterDark Wrote: [ -> ]His moral fiber should definitely be questioned, but the support system here (Dirk, Jet, and Cuban) makes me hopeful that whatever blowups Kidd had is his last jobs wont happen here
I suppose it's only fair to point out that that same support system did not prevent his last stint as a Mav from ending badly. But it's a new day, and one never knows.
(06-25-2021, 10:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, the world is collectively pretty upset about the Kidd thing. I wonder if that will blow over a bit, or if people will dig the argument up every couple of months.
I think it's kind of a self selection sort of thing. For those that are really bothered by the Mavs 2018 scandal and Kidd's domestic abuse, this topic will never really go away for them and will always be hashed up whenever they watch the Mavs.
For others, they'll probably acknowledge it but in the future and day-to-day of the team they really only care about the on-court production.
I don't fault anyone for being uncomfortable with the org hiring someone with a history of domestic abuse after the 2018 scandal. Domestic abuse is a personal topic for me and definitely brings up some personal unkind memories.
But like I said earlier I'm going to give Kidd the benefit of the doubt and let scripture guide my judgment. Hate the sin love the sinner. People can be rehabilitated (if they actually want to be).
(06-25-2021, 12:02 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose it's only fair to point out that that same support system did not prevent his last stint as a Mav from ending badly. But it's a new day, and one never knows.
I never really thought that departure was that bad. At that time I couldn't bring myself to blame Kidd for not wanting to be here. I mean, as a principle you should keep your word. But verbal, vague business agreements aren't binding, and are a BAD idea.
ADVICE TO EVERYONE: If someone wants to enter into a verbal financial or business agreement with you, but will for some reason not put it in writting. DON'T DO IT! Have them put it in writting. It's better for both parties. If someone won't put it in writting then they are exposing you to risk. It's not cool. They shouldn't do that to you.
So I don't fault Kidd for reading the tea leaves, seeing what Mark was doing to the roster, and thinking, we haven't sealed this thing, I don't like where things are headed, I don't think I can sign here.
(06-25-2021, 12:14 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]So I don't fault Kidd for reading the tea leaves, seeing what Mark was doing to the roster, and thinking, we haven't sealed this thing, I don't like where things are headed, I don't think I can sign here.
I don't think the bad ending was the fact that he left. I think it was that he pretended to have agreed to a deal with Cuban to get a better offer from the Knicks. Hey, it's not the only time Cuban thought he had a deal when he didn't. Maybe it's partly on him.
(06-25-2021, 12:20 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the bad ending was the fact that he left. I think it was that he pretended to have agreed to a deal with Cuban to get a better offer from the Knicks. Hey, it's not the only time Cuban thought he had a deal when he didn't. Maybe it's partly on him.
Maybe Kidd knew that rejection only makes Mark more horny and played the long game. See VAJ.
(06-25-2021, 12:05 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's kind of a self selection sort of thing. For those that are really bothered by the Mavs 2018 scandal and Kidd's domestic abuse, this topic will never really go away for them and will always be hashed up whenever they watch the Mavs.
For others, they'll probably acknowledge it but in the future and day-to-day of the team they really only care about the on-court production.
I don't fault anyone for being uncomfortable with the org hiring someone with a history of domestic abuse after the 2018 scandal. Domestic abuse is a personal topic for me and definitely brings up some personal unkind memories.
But like I said earlier I'm going to give Kidd the benefit of the doubt and let scripture guide my judgment. Hate the sin love the sinner. People can be rehabilitated (if they actually want to be).
Love this!
(06-25-2021, 12:20 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the bad ending was the fact that he left. I think it was that he pretended to have agreed to a deal with Cuban to get a better offer from the Knicks. Hey, it's not the only time Cuban thought he had a deal when he didn't. Maybe it's partly on him.
Oh really? Do you have evidence of that? <--honest question, not challenging your knowledge
Where I'm at is this....I'm not on any one thing, but I am about this.
1) Integrity issues with the three Js got him out of here.
2) Then domestic violence issues got him out of Phoenix
3) Then he comes here and lies/plays -- whatever -- integrity issues, we'll say with the deal and the Knicks
4) Issues in Brooklyn with integrity trying to sabotage Billy King
5) Issues in Milwaukee...
It's not that people can't make a mistake and get better, but we are talking about a disturbing pattern, that bothers me a little.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't crop up some time again.
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